Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Richard Green?
could hold a comparable role @ NOKIA to Steve Jobs for Apple...

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Doesn't matter. The point is that Vertu is profitable and Elop is selling off profitable Nokia assets to support WP7.

Elop is banking hard on Lumia success in the U.S. but I can bet you that Lumia will flop in the U.S. Microsoft was so ashamed of WP7 sales that it insisted on lumping the old Win Mobile sales together. The actual market share of WP7 in the U.S. is less than 1.5%. This is practically total rejection by consumers.

Nokia won't be able to change anything. Their reputation in the U.S. has been degraded to cheap flip phones that grandmas use. Lumia will also fail in India, China, Russia, Australia and S.E. Asia as they can't be bothered about WP7. Europe is WP7's best market but even then Elop and MS are too ashamed to reveal actual numbers sold.

So the U.S. is Elop's last great hope but this is like a drowning man grabbing at straws. Apollo even if good will not come in time to save Nokia. It will be the 3rd or 4th Q before Nokia can sell Apollo phones and by then it will be in intensive care.

The wisest thing for Nokia to do now is to stand strongly behind MeeGo and sell N9 in all markets. Then maybe, just maybe, Nokia will be able to survive 2012. But the mole Elop will not do this because it doesn't benefit Microsoft.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

FT is citing an unnamed source today as saying that Nokia has retained Goldman Sachs as an advisor in a bid to sell its Vertu subsidiary, the UK-based purveyor of handmade ultra-luxury phones. Though you might think that the market for $10,000 handsets running Symbian is an extraordinarily small one, various reports over the past couple years have claimed that the division — which doesn't report its own revenue figures — is highly profitable, so it stands to reason that Nokia could end up fetching a strong price for it.

liquidating the family jewels...

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Here's something for WP7 hopefuls to chew on:

Ten Brands That Will Disappear in 2012

One of them happen to be Nokia.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

well well well...
isn't that being overly dramatic, now?
this sounds like posts from (disillusioned) m$ fanboys, now trying to unload their frustration on NOKIA...
NOKIA still is the number ONE (dumb) cell phone maker
it certainly isn't as profitable as Vertu, but it still sells...

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

check this youtube vid posted 2 days back:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S3TU...5aFAAAAAAAABAA

Nokia rewards one of the top salesmen. They really are counting on salesmen more rather then innovating in the right direction.

"Do you know Joe? He's T-Mobile's most enthusiastic Windows Phone sales rep. As a "thank you" for his excitement about our new Nokia Lumia line, we took him with us to CES in Las Vegas for a week of VIP treatment.

From Playboy parties to Ferraris to helicopter rides to the Grand Canyon, let's just say, what happens in Vegas doesn't always stay in Vegas."

I dont know how much was spent on this trip, I'm happy for this guy who got to have fun, but about nokia, they should be paying all those meego/mer hackers to steer the company in the right direction.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

^Ah ahahahah!

They need to shout all their salesman a weekend getaway just to sell those damn things!

About 247WallSt's assesment, I don't think its true. Obviously if NOKIA/WP7.5 doesn't get any traction within 9 months, they are right and will crash and fall.

But I think NOKIA will have some success and it won't happen. The problem is what then? How will Nokia be able to surpass RIM in smartphone sales, to at least be relevant?

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

^
see, that's what i'm talking about...:rolleyes:

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Ok that is just sad, I mean it it's not even funny any more. and btw considering the sales of WP I suppose the top salesmen dude sold like 3 of them?

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

so apple, with their insane $96 billion cash should send all their salesmen to these kind of awesome trips in recognition of making iphone the best single selling phone in the universe ... that is IF the salesmen made it happen :p

Well on a serious note, i'm not downplaying the importance of salesmen, but you *need* to have a kick***** product *first* to be able to market it and feel excited about it.

Harmattan Nokia!!!. Harmattan is the way to go.

I think nokia should just come up with more harmattan devices. Thats not against their agreement with microsoft that they cant make harmattan devcies right? Nokia owns the harmattan code, they should just quietly work on it and surprise the world, shake the ground beneath everybody, only nokia can do it. Flood the market with so many varieties of harmattan devices, big small, with/without keyboards, single core, multi core, 256mb to 1gb ram products, 3" to 4.5" devices. Just like htc, OR just like nokia has done with symbian in the past, they had all kinds of funny looking funny shaped symbian devices, devices that you could look at n think "is that a phone, that cant be a phone".

Sigh ..

anyway ..

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

apple just programs their sales bots up front for loyalty and positivity

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...955678908.html

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Sorry, but that is akin to those old Autombile adverts with the Bikini Clad Babe on the bonnet with the mantra... "Yes if you buy this car she will be your wife".

It's also a little cliche that the guys name happens to be Joe. Nothing special about that admittedly, just the "average Joe".

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

I'm not quite sure what you people expected. You're celebrating the further decline of Nokia based on their decision to support WP7... we knew it wasn't going to sell even if you did slap on a Nokia label on it. WP7 ain't selling anywhere.

And some people think it's failing because it's great...

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Actually, one of the things in the agreement is that Windows Phone will be Nokia's "primary smartphone platform", so there probably is some sort of legal bind, although I would really like to see Microsoft suing Nokia because Harmattan consistently outsells WP platform.

But I think the bigger problem is that Elop's actions are pushing Nokia to the point where they will not be able to support own platform due to lack of expertize, people and services even if they wanted to.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

they are still developing & selling new Symbian (now ""NOKIA"") devices, thus merely a matter of renaming MeeGo... NeeGo or whatever

Symbian is taken care of by Accenture now and has @ least two (major) releases (Carla & Donna) already on the works (Carla will require 1GHz CPU & Donna will support dual-core)
obviously the Public Releases for Harmattan are still coming out

between the two, there is plenty of leeway for N10 / N960, me thinks :D

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

But, but......Harmattan/Qt is not part of MS's ecosystem.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

isn't it?
or was that still under Ric Green that Qt was supposed to be (sup-)ported (by) to LostDOS?

then again, by the very definition of it, an ecosystem is a vivid symbiosis of organism, the true cradle of life...:D
who knows what Qt could become??? ¦-)
it's open source after all, isn't it?

:):p;):D:o:rolleyes::cool::eek:

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

The E7 is difficult to pop open as well. That's one drawback that we get for crying like a bunch of babies for thinner QWERTY phones. Apple will release the 5 with an edge to edge screen. The thing
will sell like it is being given away for free.


I presume that the device and OS were ready for primetime. The little peak in Transformers 3 proves that it was a desperate measure of Elop to cancel a potential profit.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

But all us community device program people got the N950 a couple of months before the N9's launch. Harmattan was still very beta - they wouldn't have been able to launch something earlier in the year to the public unless there had been some do-over internally and they had Something Else ready beforehand, but decided to add Swipe/QML-apps/etc., having been given extra time.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

You think that do-over was possible in couple months? Don't forget, initial plans for the N950 were an announcement in February and a possible March launch which is not so much ahead of N9. They must've had something ready for the public. Unless, Elop's stepping in has caused a massive delay since his obvious first command was the internal collapse of Nokia.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

When I showed Nemo on my N900 to a Nokia guy, he said it looked like the old Harmattan. So there must've been something, and I suppose what we saw on those leaked photos from China last year was that old Harmattan.

Rumour has it that the N8 was intended to be the first Harmattan device, even. But Harmattan didn't make it in time.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

finished or not finished in the last year, right now N9 is a finished and well made product, they have it now, and in the mean time (the supposed gap that they wanted to fill) they have achieved nothing with winmo and not much of that is expected going forward. So, in these times instead of messing with winmo and loosing so many quality employees, if they had kept on producing some successor to n97/e7 with *real* good hardware, they would not have lost more then all the time that they have wasted already treating winmo as a holy grail. And in the time they have released N9, they could have announced like 3 harmattan handsets, N950 like keyboard edition, the totally good looking N9, and one more with maybe a dual core processor.

Elop is unbelievably stupid to have treated harmattan the way he did. He has a pretty poor foresight. Maybe he somehow just believes that when in trouble, instead of innovating one should just sell himself to others. This is what they did with macromedia, which probably worked out good for them, but that is not the way for all companies.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Lets hope those will be more polished than E8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piubvIL_IGE

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

If it's any similar, then this must have been the old Harmattan.

Old harmattan ui

Still looking better than WP.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Windows Phone will not be able to compete until Apollo. In apollo it may be on par with systems today.

This says it all: http://pocketnow.com/windows-phone/e...one-8-detailed

Stuff that is coming there means that it lacks that functionality now. What is Nokia thinking?

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

The key word being today lol so in 6-9 months WP will be on par with what other ecosystems (sigh) offer people today. noone here sees the phail

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

So true! Here are some things that Windows Phail 7 lacks:

• support for multicore processors
• Choice of screen resolutions
• removable microSD card
• NFC radios
• "contactless payments"
• capability to be carrier-branded and controlled
• share capabilities ... accross multiple platforms (surely not Linux, right?)
• Allow developers to reuse desktop applications code.
• Dropping Zune and back to ActiveSync.
• Integration with MS version of DropBox, Skydrive
• Skype integration
• basic camera interface (API?)
• tracking of data usage
• attempt to give Wi-Fi connections precedence
• planned use of a proxy server to feed pages to Internet Explorer 10 (BigBrother?)
• BitLocker encryption

Still not Qt integration. Still no Python port. Yawn.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

You should be blaming Ofcom to allow this. It protects the UK market and the existig infrastructure and creates artificial obstacle to anyone with new ideas in the market. It is also related to the UK's telco industry use of contractors and not on loyal employees. The competence level with the UK operators reflect this, just as this is reflected in your monthy invoice.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

You can use LGE on your N900, it is all up to Qualcomm, but they can roam even calls. The N900 runs Linux, so its just to refine the radio and make the handover.
That is the difference between Windows and Linux.

Well Microsoft paid Nokia $2650 million for the stunt that probaly cost Nokia around $700 million. So soon comes payback time.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Nice to see another Ashens fan here :) If you haven't already I would recommend seeing the Pandora review.

Anyhoo, back on topic

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

So... Harmattan supports multiple cores, has great Skype integration plus video calls, full NFC (swp inclusive) implementation?

I could go deeper, but let's put it this way. Harmattan is a version 1 rewrite/release that will probably not get any updated due to Nokia's CEO. WP7 is a version 1 rewrite/release that will get updates due to Microsoft's CEO - and Nokia. Too bad Harmattan will not get the chance it needs to mature.

The rest of your argument - Qt, et al - how many Qt devs are there out there versus Java, C/C++ and even Visual Studio developers?

Seriously.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

one of those Bllamers too, are you ?
¦-)))))))))))

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

maybe u have to think at the problem less deeply, and just see that nokia lost the train.
as long as the other devices, and after android got a lot of updates, programs, games, nokia did not do anything. for about 2 years no other great devices, or something else. they waited too much with this WP thing, but, probably, if they stay can wait enough, and prove themself as serious, with a lot of support for the devices they sell ( not as for n900 ), probably they will manage to take some of the market.

from my point of view is just a matter of timing and os maturity. wp is at the begining, did not proved that deserved to be bought, but, at least theorethically would have a great pothential, which is not demonstrated yet.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Harmattan is a thin layer over linux, linux has probably best support for hardware and it is very good at running om multicore processors.


How many good applications is out that is done i java? Is +90% of the best applications done in C++?

Placing applications that is done by people that is learning to program and call those "one more app" isn't what customers want, they want good apps.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

That is not the problem, the problem is that they av put all apples in one basket. Doing that they are also making current customers angry.

Customers will leave Nokia because Nokia didn't care about its customers

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

nokia will be die


but maemo will live forever, i hope someday another company will bring us back maemo with more capable hardware, dualcore maemo5 with multitouch and 1gb of ram, nokia is never care about their customer, left them behind, what a stupid CEO and principal of a 'big' company, lol

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Can we change the title of.this thread yet? I posted the actual text and it is obvious he is.saying nokia needs to do a better job in general with retail, and.i think they will. It doesnt take much to seduce sales lackeys...

anyway, the point is, i am going to bat here Mr elop, some recompense please. pM me.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Vertu has insanely large profit margins given that they barely spend anything on the device development - apart from the materials, I'd bet you that most of their operating costs are on marketing - they just take a vanilla Nokia, encrust it with diamonds, rubies, sapphires, gold, platinum, expensive leather... and sell it to a rich sheik or televangelist inflated for like 500% the production price.

Yes, the market for such devices is small, but the profit compared to what goes into making it is immensely large, thus bringing the question - why would you want to sell such a cash cow? Yes, it doesn't produce as much cash as the others, but it's entirely self-sustaining and at the end of the year adds what they've collected to the company's till.

Never mind that they would probably be able to sell to some of their competitors at quite a low price because of its deep ties with Nokia.



:eek:
This goes into the same bin as "the world hates USofA because of our democracy."

And even if so - karma's a biach! The way the market and consumers are ignoring them is well deserved. Too bad that due to the Elop's loony decision, they'll drag Nokia down with them. Not that Nokia didn't deserve a nice slap, too...



Carla won't require 1GHz, it's a minor update to Belle just as Anna was a minor update to the vanilla S^3. There are bug reports for Carla on E7 in the Nokia's dev list...



Macromedia was not in trouble at all. They were actually cutting into Adobe's turf at the point of sale, and their assets provided Adobe with a lot of profit since then. Flash, however, suffered immensely in the process, but that's a whole other story...



Compared to Java and general C/C++, far less of course. But as it is now, I'd bet you that there are more Qt devs than Silverlight and XNA (or the ones willing work with the shaved XNA that is in WP) devs. After all, there are far more Java and C/C++ devs than C# devs even if you go with a general .NET.

Not to mention that even if Microsoft allows for native execution in WP8, I'd bet you that you'll have to use .NET-based wrappers and some WP-only APIs, thus effectively having the same restrictions as in the WP7, but with a code that can execute faster.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Until the UI/UX and other bits outside of the kernel has threading and is implemented on a real multiple-core piece of hardware, that's speculation based on the kernel. At the kernel level, iOS supports threaded and multiple cores - took until now for it to do so.

Proof is in the hardware. OMAP3 isn't helping that.

Who said "good"? Because at this pace, the amount of good applications and developers in Qt are considerably lesser.

Then where's the good apps on Harmattan? I have most of them. It's a lot less than my WP7, Android and WebOS devices.

Considerably less. "Good" is an opinion. I was talking solely about the amount of developers per platform. Qt is in the minority.

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 

Be careful with that one. XNA devs also dev XBOX Live games - that's quite a bit of people. And via Mono.XNA (or whatever it's called, forgot) that covers iOS as well.