Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your suggestions!
 

Go ahead with the poll and I'm sure the Councillors will have to give it a second thought...I volunteer to bring it up at the next Council meeting if the poll is done and a popular choice is made...

They can be reasoned with; after all this is a community's decision not a select group's choice...

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your suggestions!
 

Yet, you failed to communicate any of this in your initial post here. That's the whole point I'm trying to make.

You seem to prefer reasoning with people who already agree with you. Clever.
What I'm not is an ardent supporter of the name "Hildon Foundation". I'm an ardent supporter of any name that has a real meaning. We could also use Gary's (user)name - of course only if his family would agree, and I hope for them they wouldn't (if asked) because they'll not be able to control what the foundation does in his name. It could be the 770 Foundation (because it was the first of its kind that started the revolution), it could be the Extras-Devel Foundation, it could be anything that had a real meaning during the heyday of the community.

What it should not be is a name that is created now, at the end, and will always be seen as the tombstone of a once active community. See Tizen.

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your suggestions!
 

So ****ing what, I explained it very clearly in subsequent posts, it was a live & fluidly evolving thing, I wasn't constantly updating the OP, so ****ing shoot me, you're just **** stirring.

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your suggestions!
 

The whole discussion was to find a name that has real meaning isn't it? Those who have been against Hildon Foundation, including me, were of the opinion that its pretty divisive especially at this moment when there is a split from Nokia going on...

Wouldn't a name like Aelous have a story too? i.e. King of Winds; Summation of all the platforms anyway...

I'm still of the opinion a poll should choose the popular choice and whatever is the result should be presented to the Council...This includes the possibility of Aelous not being the preferred name but at least it has community support behind it then...

You came out blazing guns from your first post about how ANY name other than Hildon would be meaningless to you and be hiding our origins...

So your post pretty much illustrated what you wished so I was telling jalyst its not worth to argue with someone who has made up his mind...After all the opinion of yours or mine or jalyst's is not representative of the community...That's why I've been pushing for a poll...Its not about reasoning with someone who agrees with my view...IIRC jalyst was in fact in favour of something other than Aelous so how is that the same? I'm in favour of a poll and allowing the community to decide...

We have seen how the Council Awards caused a major split in the community and till date converted one valuable community member into something like a troll hence leading to a ban from #maemo...I don't wish that to occur again to the Council...

If a poll chooses Hildon as the popular choice at least its transparent and not a small group deciding for the community...That's the main point of a poll; prevent the Council from being questioned down the road and preventing accusations of bias against them!

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your suggestions!
 

Last time I'm asking*, are we now wasting our time placing this poll (had already partially started 24hrs+ ago!) or should I proceed?
I'm not going to waste any time on it until I know the council won't just flick it away for being "too late"...
As I've said, I personally couldn't give a **** any more, let some have their nostalgic names, irrespective of what the community as-a-whole may want.

*And it'll no longer be done today (already 10pm here), unless someone wants to start a separate thread

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your suggestions!
 

IMO proceed with it and I'm ready to argue its cause in the next Council meeting if they just dispose it...

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your suggestions!
 

No. The discussion was to find just any name (hiding from the participants the fact that a name was already proposed, which is what I trying to point out here).

No. It was never used throughout the whole lifetime of this community, there's nothing associated with it. It comes from the laboratory and is sterile. No story.

That's plain wrong and you know it. I said:

Nothing against names other than Hildon in principle (I just said I liked Hildon). A lot against names that never appeared before in the history of the community.


To be honest, I didn't follow that particular episode of "Scandal on t.m.o." too closely. I spotted a few drama queens who hadn't read the rules before and complained afterwards... and lost interest after only a few days. Been there, done that.

I wonder why we voted for a council then in the fist place if we do the paperwork ourselves.

Anyway, call it Mildred or Vista, nobody will ever use it, will they. I'd only prefer people not pretending that "we need a name" when actually "we have a name, but I want a new one".

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your suggestions!
 

Absolute bullsh1t, of course I would've ****ing included Hildon in the line-up, I never freaking said I wouldn't, please just STFU, you're behaving like a tool, bed time for me very soon.
I take huge offense to your constant assertions buddy, if I knew you in real life I wouldn't stand for your smart-arse behavior for more than one minute, that's a certainty...
I've already addressed your claims that this is all a conspiracy by me to change a name that was already chosen by the community, I won't do it for the 10th time, stop trying to sully my character!

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your suggestions!
 

Nobody ever made such a claim. No name was chosen by the community.

I just said the words you used (maybe not even on purpose) may have tricked people into believing there was no name proposed yet and we were all desperatly waiting for the muse to inspire us before it was too late. At least that's how it came across when I read it, even though I knew that wasn't true.

To be honest though, your behaviour and your choice of words in this particular discussion convinced me that you are a friendly and well-meaning person in general and that I must have completely misunderstood your intentions. Sorry for that.

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your suggestions!
 

Apology accepted, so long as there wasn't some cynicism inserted in there somewhere, apologies for getting angry/rude with you, good night.

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your suggestions!
 

Okay this is done, please read the OP....
If anyone thinks the explanations for each candidate aren't correct please advise what to put.
Also advise whether you think I'm missing some names or whether you think some should be pulled.
In another 24hr (or less) I'll start the poll, please get the word out to more people now though.

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your suggestions!
 

Maemo.org came first, obviously. Internettablettalk.com was (and still is) this forum, but the community is a lot more than that.

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your suggestions!
 

Ah, getting my "P's and Q's" confused, thanks for spotting that.

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your idea/vote!
 

Hildon Foundation not (so) good...

here is why:
Hildon ≃ Heldon ≃ Seldon

who in the name of gawd (pun intended :D) is... Seldon?!?
well, Hari Seldon is a key character from Azimov's Foundation serie of novels...
not the most common association, admittedly, but it takes only one post / article by some idiotic blogger pseudo-journalist to turn the Hildon Foundation into some sci-fi fantasy :mad:

wouldn't MaemoCommunity be a good one?
it is the continuation of Maemo by its Community after all :o

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your idea/vote!
 

"Mer something" and "The Aeolos Guild" are my personal preferred choices. "Hari Seldon" interpretation of "Hildon" name is not unwelcome by me; I have read whole Foundation series, by the way. There could be many different angles from which you can look at this association, and not all of them would be unfavourable for "Hildon Foundation".
It could be added that "hildon" is plural preterite tense of "hold; keep, maintain; retain" in Old Frisian.
Best wishes.

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your idea/vote!
 

This makes me think that those who 1) have friends 2) which don't know anything about Maemo & co, and 3) play party games with them, should try a session a "Broken telephone" a.k.a. "Chinese whispers" where the starting sentence is one of the candidate names for the NFP. :p
If you do, please report the results back :D

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that Maemo.org's changing to: add your suggestions!
 

I agree but we could never have a convention in Paris.
Paris Hildon would be a terrible connotation....

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your idea/vote!
 

"Hildon Foundation" might result in conflicts as there as already one: http://www.hildon.com/our-story/the-hildon-foundation/

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your idea/vote!
 

This makes the poll all the more important so that we have back-up options available...

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your idea/vote!
 

I like the name TMO = Talk.MeR.org :D

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your idea/vote!
 

This poll lacks a "none of the above" option.

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your idea/vote!
 

The same can be achieved by simply not voting :o

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your idea/vote!
 

The Poll is active now, sorry for the horrid delay, 12hrs later than I'd hoped (so busy IRL).
I have set the poll such that you can vote for more than one name...
Ideally though, try to vote for only for 1, 2, or 3 of your favourite names.
I was going to set a limit for it to auto-close, but I wasn't sure when the best time for that would be.
So instead I opted to keep it open indefinitely....

Apologies if I've missed any names, I combed the thread carefully & am sure I spotted most.
It would be good if we could continue to get positives/negatives for the current contenders.
Or maybe better summaries than I currently have for each of them. I'll then add that info. to the OP.
As stated in the OP, once you've voted also share what your preferences were & why.
This is by no means mandatory though, if you prefer to remain anonymous that's fine.

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your idea/vote!
 

Not the same thing at all, sorry. Unless you consider t.m.o. membership (64555) - current voters (1) to be an accurate count of how many people dislike all the options offered.

Anyway, I can approximate that result by placing a single vote for an option that has no chance of getting chosen as it conflicts with another established foundation.

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your idea/vote!
 

Oh ha.. ha... :rolleyes:
Rather than the smart-*** remark*, what (IYO) is a better name for this entity than those?

*unless it was merely an attempt at light-hearted humour, in which case I retract my jab

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your idea/vote!
 

No idea. Up to a couple of hours ago I would have gone with Hildon, but that's out now. I do dislike all of the others though.

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your vote(s)!
 

As with 1 of the aeolos variations, it's far from a total given that it's "out", just because there happens to be another foundation with that name, but it's likely you knew that ;)
If it turns out some of the names REALLY aren't usable, then we can move to the most popular of what's left, or drop the ones that can't be used & add some new ones, & you make you suggestion then.

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your vote(s)!
 

Seeing all the disaagrements I ponder why we cannot continue on using maemo.org .

After all, there is some precedent: OpenOffice.org must be called OpenOffice.org because someone else had the OpenOffice (that is, without the .org) trademark. So I presume that even if Nokia keeps the Maemo trademark, maemo.org might still be used.

But IANAL and TL;DR.

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your vote(s)!
 

damn, did not know about the hildon foundation, nice find.

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your vote(s)!
 

SD69 is supposedly a lawyer, maybe he/she knows the answer WRT that....
Personally though, for a community which going forward is about MeeGo, MeR, & possibly NiTDroid derivatives just as much as Maemo, I dont see how maemo.org is as suitable as some of the other suggestions for foundation name.

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your vote(s)!
 

It would be a trademark infringement.

The current maemo.org "is hosted as a public service by Nokia Corporation" so it has implicit licence to call itself that, but the new NFP won't and the current Nokia Corporation is likely to be hostile towards all things not MS.

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your vote(s)!
 

My entire point is that it wasn't infringement in the case of OpenOffice vs OpenOffice.org , and both also were "computer software" trademarks.

You cannot just say that with Maemo it is going to be infringement and not add some additional explanation! :) Now you got me curious!

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your vote(s)!
 

Honestly, I don't know how they got away with OOo. Was there some agreement with the Open Office trademark owner (who might be more amenable, being an ubuntu affiliate and all)?

Maemo.org is clearly about the Nokia product called Maemo, and Nokia believe they have a right to it ("“trademarks” means not just Maemo logos, but also the names of its different writing variations, as well as the name maemo.org and names of maemo.org services").

Even if they turn out to be wrong, who has the time/money/energy to fight this in the courts?

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your vote(s)!
 

MOS needs more votes, it encapsulate all maemo derived operating systems old and new :)

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your vote(s)!
 

Personally, I don't like any of the names.

I would prefer something more in line with Meego/Mer as it's the most probable future we can follow and is not disrespectful with the past Maemo. However, before using something Mer-like, we should first negotiate with Mer team.

Now the most important thing is to form a NFP to start funding and transitioning from Nokia, so I will vote for Hildon, as a less bad option. The already existing foundation doesn't have any relation to technology, so I hope it shouldn't be a problem.

Anyway, my guess is that next Board/Council would be able to handle this issue with enough time (and maybe using a real voting/referendum) to change the name if desired/needed.

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your vote(s)!
 

^There is MeR-Community?
I asked in the OP if we could use just MeR (not sure if MeR already uses that for their NFP entity, or whatever it is)
Remember to refer to the OP everyone to get a explanation of all the names.

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your vote(s)!
 

So why on earth did you go ahead with all this when it was so clear that a poll was about to start?
We asked countless times why it had to be done so early but you never answered properly.
We asked if the NFP name could be changed later but you never answered...
Time-frames were never clearly defined & a rationale for them offered*, only warnings to get it done soon.
We literally would've needed maybe only 6 more days of voting (if it was so urgent) to get a consensus.
We asked countless times for your to clarify yourself but you didn't, why the heck not!?
Were you not following this thread, were we supposed to contact you via other means?
And the very reason you were so quick to rule out some of the names, also applies to Hildon it seems.
That was one of the criteria you laid down when we 1st started this, this is bloody loony tunes stuff, srsly.
I'm not oblivious to the hard work you're actually doing for the community & it IS really appreciated, but that doesn't excuse how things have unfolded.
It's mildly frustrating spending so much time on something that turns out to be a sheer waste of time.
Simply because a person or persons (for whatever reason) didn't communicate things.
Yes you're doing the leg work, good/bad for you, that doesn't exclude you from being more explanatory than you've been.
Honestly the whole thing smelt of: "This is the name I[we] prefer so that's that, community consensus be damned."
If it really is a case of practicalities trumping ideals that's fine, but at least make an effort to be MORE communicative.

*Only a vague one-liner that said: "Yes the elections are coming soon"

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your vote(s)!
 

I've asked the mods to close this thread/poll, as it's now pointless....
Luckily this whole mess is only the NFP entity name, we MUST do better for the community site_name/domain.

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your vote(s)!
 

It was your crusade. Don't complain. Nobody made you do it.

Plus, in this very thread, SD69 wrote on Sept 16th:

Re: We need a name for the NFP entity that we're changing to: add your vote(s)!
 

I wonder why when someone tries to do something for the benefit of the community, those who have been here forever always get irked and come out of their shells to complain instead of encouraging for the greater community good :rolleyes:


The comment that takes the cake is still the one pointing out there are 65k+ registered members of TMO and the poll is hence unrepresentative...I just read on the MCC12 thread that for last Council Election only 230 people voted! Emails only go out to 5,000 out of those 65k+ members...These people know it yet will go to any extent to push their brand of logic...Just look at the online members at any point of time and although I've been here for less than a year I can guarantee there aren't more than even 1,000 registered members online at a time...


[Expecting barrage of comments hitting out on me in 3, 2, 1....]