Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900
 

Yeah, there are still plenty of unserved regions here in Ohio; in fact, my parents live in one of them, so I've learned to get my maps downloaded before I head that way (if I'm going to use maps at all). :)

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900
 

N900 is definitely better for IMing and texting to multiple people concurrently. But otherwise it can't compete with iPhone 4S. The 4s is just a more complete device all around. N900 is too slow, doesn't do corporate email, bulky, iPhones virtual keyboard beats hardware one on N900, and n900 virtual keyboard is a joke. I like the computer feel of N900 but I can't open excel or word or PowerPoint presentations. The maps are way too slow on n900, and other than the stock, the map alternatives are eyesores. Overall, iPhone 4S is a clear winner, and I think that 4S is even better than 5, as I prefer a thicker and heavier device and design in 4s is unbeatable

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900
 

??!!?
Have you heard of Extras?


SPOILER: abiword, gnumeric, easy debian libreoffice, ubuntu with uboot, you can open f***n blender files on the N900!

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900
 

I have. Which program?

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900
 

Hint: Press Ctrl+A and re-read my post :)

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900
 

Not helpful. I had a program sold by dataviz but that expired...nothing in extras has helped me in the past...

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900
 

You bought it and it expired? Or your trial expired and you didn't bother to spent a couple of euros? Anyway, docs to go .deb is available if you ask google, I know that because after dataviz told me that my OS is no longer supported so they don't want my money, I found it uploaded to a couple of file sharing servers.

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900
 

I find gnumeric far superior to any other mobile spreadsheet application. Abiword is good too. You can also use FreOffice, or easy debian LibreOffice.

The only thing I can now ask for is better integration, i.e. modest to open attachments directly in abiword and gnumeric instead of having to save and then go and open them. (This works with FreOffice btw). I tried specifying mime types in the desktop file but without success.

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900
 

That is not surprising, since gnumeric is NOT a mobile spreadsheet application... It's a desktop application. ;)

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900
 

That's why I like maemo better than most other mobile OS's. Because when I edit spreadsheets or do similar tasks I prefer desktop grade applications than restricted mobile ones, and I don't mind using the stylus at all.

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900
 

Its only a spreadsheet application. I need word and powerpoint

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900
 

I think that's where the Maemo argument gets crushed. You rather use "desktop grade" applications on a mobile device with a 3.5" display instead of using optimized applications for it. Once again, I will pose the question:

Do you think one could modify a spread sheet quicker and with more ease on an N900 using Gnumeric, "desktop grade" application or on an iPhone using what ever the best spreadsheet application there is?

While it might give you a huge nerd boner, I have used Gnumeric, and I can say with a good amount of certainty that it's not gonna work out in the N900's favor.

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900
 

In every respect except integration, iOS is now the worst mainstream mobile OS. Even Apple knows it.

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900
 

Here's my answer:

If "modifying a spread sheet quicker" means only the process of entering data into cells and moving rows and columns around, then yes, the iPhone-optimized app will win.

However, consider that you need to get the spreadsheet data onto the iPhone and back off of it in some manner. (Apple does not make this task simple!) Also, consider that you have to spend time learning the app's user interface (which, obviously, must be different from Gnumeric's UI, or this whole argument is moot). Finally, I would imagine that some conversion will be required between the app's file format and Gnumeric's file format, with all the usual issues of lost formatting wherever the file formats are incompatible.

But really, let me refute the very basis of the question. Regardless of whether or not you prefer to use "desktop grade" software on a cell-phone sized device, the real issue here is that Maemo allows you to do so; iOS does not. You can still run finger-friendly cell-phone-sized apps on Maemo when you want to. :)

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900
 

You can, but chances are your going to have to write the applications up yourself. Thats where iPhone excels, tonnes of support means your likely to find something that you require.

Even moreso on Android because of the lack of restrictions, though some things are truly not optimized for it.

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900
 

Oh sure, I'll admit that right up front -- none of the Nokia NIT line have been popular enough to draw the kind of support that iOS and Android enjoy. So yeah, "app" support is thin on the ground.

But still -- my N900 is a tiny portable computer. It runs much of the software that I use daily on my desktop machines. My iPhone, on the other hand, is just a cell phone that runs apps. It runs none of the software I run on my desktop machines, and even if I hacked it, I doubt I could get most of it to run. So at least for me, switching from Maemo to iOS or Android would involve a fairly significant reduction in functionality...

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900
 

I am not going to disagree, it has had the same UI since the first iPhone! It is horrible! But it just so happens that when it comes to mobile applications, social media, sharing of data, blah blah blah - integration is 99%.

And as another poster mentioned, "there's going to be an application for the iPhone out there that is going to do exactly what you need to do"

Personally I am a big gun guy. I live in the USA and I am big into firearms, everyone knows that a rifle should always be your first choice and your pistol is a sidearm. Many gun manufactures have tried to put rifle calibers into compact firearms and it has always been met with failure.

My desktop is my command center
My laptop is my tank
My UMPC is my rifle
My mobile device is my sidearm

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900
 

Well... probably not.

But I think you didn't phrase the question correctly.

The question I ask myself is, in my belief (and for my use), more appropriate:

Would an iOS or Android app give me ALL the functions and versatility of a full desktop app? Nope, not even close... And this is the real argument with desktop apps on Maemo...

At the end of the day, the full desktop experience just can't be beat.

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900
 

Moore's law doesn't yet apply to firearms (thankfully so...)

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900
 

That's where I think I have a big disagreement with the Maemo community, allow me to boot up my N900 real quick...

GIMP
Hexen 2
Duke Nukem 3D
Open Arena/Quake 3
Quake 2
PrBoom (Doom)
Stargus
Wargus
Wolfenstine 3D
MyPaint
OpenOffice

This is just a short list of Maemo 5 "desktop grade" applications I have installed. Most of all the "desktop grade" games are nearly unplayable, to take GiMP, OpenOffice, or Iceweasel seriously is difficult, MyPaint navigation is very hard, etc.

These "desktop grade" applications are just that, "desktop grade" - not meant for a 3.5" display on a 1.15GHz device with so little RAM. They are just not practical for use on this device, especially on the go.

Where as the "mobile applications" on the N900 such as the ported WebOS games are good to play (even though some of them require multitouch) and Angry Birds, ZenBound, Ansel-A, Firefox, Opera, social media plugins, etc. are MUCH MORE USEFUL. Simple because they are not "desktop grade" application, these applications were BUILT for small devices, that aren't that fast, that don't have a mouse, that have a 3.5" screen, etc. hence these applications are much more functional/practical than "desktop grade" applications.

Yes I know, it doesn't give anyone a huge nerd boner - but there is no debate that applications built for mobile platforms work better on mobile platforms than applications that were not.

So you get the "full desktop experience" with 1/10th the speed, 1/4 the resolution, messy I/O coding, and a keyboard that can't seriously compare to a full keyboard.

I was having a discussion with my friends wife yesterday and she said, "Remember Palms?" and I said "Palm PCs?" and she said, "Yes." I said, "What about them?" she responded, "I remember having one for work, and showing it off, you could play games, store your address book, do all these things I thought were so fancy, but they were so incredibly useless compared to technology now, like the iPhone."

So yes, theoretically I could play the entire DOOM game from start to finish on my N900 (and on my iPhone) but it would not be enjoyable, it would be a chore. Simply due to the form factor.

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900
 

I don't want to debate but I think you are wrong on MyPaint's benefits on the n900...

This thread especially shows the benefits of MyPaint...

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900
 

Sorry here is where you are wrong. The iPhones awesome kinetic scrolling idea is perfect for content consumption but it surely is a handicap for content creation. It disables a lot of other gestures you use everyday on your computer, just to provide one thing: scrolling. Let me give you some examples.

App: Browser
Type: Content consumption
Task: Scroll around
Desktop style controls: Find the tiny scrollbar button, hit it multiple times until you go where you want.
Thumb-friendly steps: Drag where you want.

App: E-mail
Type: Content manipulation
Task: move 10 emails to another folder
DSC: Drag to select 10 emails in the right pane. Drag them to the folder you want.
TFS: open the menu, tap move, tap 10 mail messages one-by-one to select them, tap ok, tap the folder you want them to be moved in, tap ok.

App: spreadsheet
Type: Content consumption
Task: navigate around very large spreadsheet.
DSC: catch the vertical scrollbar position bar and estimate where in the height the info you want to see is. Catch the horizontal position bar and go where your data should be. Repeat until you find the info you want. (or press ctrl+f and type)
TFS: Drag around until you find it, pinch to zoom out to have a better overview, pinch in again.

App: spreadsheet
Type: content creation
Task: autofill 30 cells
DSC: struggle a bit until you hit the tiny dot in the cell corner and drag
TFS: select a cell, open the menu, hit autofill, enter the number of cells (which you must remember), enter direction, press ok.

App: spreadsheet
Type: content creation
Task: move cells
DSC: drag to select, drag to move
TFS: open the menu, press move, select cells one by one, press move, select destination press move here.

More examples:
Make everything bold -> ctrl+A ctlr+b
Fill arbitrarily positioned cells in a form-like spreadsheet -> type, enter, arrows

I challenge you anytime in handheld spreadsheet editing, and to make it even more fun, I'll bring my N810 and bring your iPhone5 (to match screen sizes)

So it's not mobile-optimized, it's just content consumption optimized which is good, but not enough for me. Coupled with the lack of hw keyboard I'd continue to use desktop like applications on a phone every day. Less fun to use but much more easy to create content.

(Without getting into the money argument, as all those desktop grade applications are free on the N900, while the "whatever best spreadsheet app there is" is at least €9 in the app store. The only free ones I've seen have either ads or limit to 100cells or save csv only)

And while I believe that a fine spreadsheet app is worth 10 or more €, I use (occasionally) about 20 such applications which sum up to a pretty big total. Also having the odd app that I will use only once in a lifetime handy, and not have to do market research before I do the things I want to do is worth to me too.

The same happens on windows on pc. There are infinite apps, but you can't possibly know if it's adware, malware, nagware, crippleware, or even if it's marginally ok to use. While on the debian repos I'm sure I will find an acceptable app that does the job and respects me even if it's not the best app for the job ever made (sometimes it is).

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900
 

I agree that the above thread shows what mypaint on the N900 can do with the right talent and patience, though I also had issues with the navigation and screen size when using mypaint. To the point where it ruined the creative flow for me. Others might/do feel different about it ;)

Dousan...

e: I actually use my 4S to draw on and even though the screen size is the same the multitouch is so much better for the work flow, despite missing pressure sensitivity. I spend most time drawing on my IPad with my pogo connect (pressure sensitivity stylus) and that is just awesome. There's some pretty nifty drawing apps for IOS. I use Brushes and Procreate :D

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900
 

[QUOTE=qwazix;1292942
App: Browser
<snip>
Task: move 10 emails to another folder
<snip>
Make everything bold -> ctrl+A ctlr+b
[/QUOTE]

That reminded me of three occasions I've had some introduction into the world of iThings. All indirect: I've never had an iPhone so cannot confirm the validity of any of that.

Case 1:
Someone at work asked by email how to get pictures off an iPhone. What an idiot, I thought, just plug it in a USB port and copy them off. Surely every mobile device does that. From the discussion that followed, I figured out it wasn't that simple.

Case 2:
Someone posted a request in a forum I was reading at the time to write an iPhone app for reading that forum. What???, was my reaction. Do you need a separate "app" for every online forum? Don't you have a browser?

Case 3:
Just overheard, but apparently there is no copy&paste on an iPhone.

Of course, who could possibly need to copy pictures off an iPhone, use a single "app" to access all the online forums on the planet or copy text between applications? That's just silly.

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900
 

There is copy and paste on iphone, and very functional one. With regards to app request, if you are visiting a site a lot, why not get an app?

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900
 

o.O

1. Yes you can get your pics of an iPhone by simply plug it in to a computer. It might need to install a driver first, but then it's just copy them over as you do from a digital camera.

2. It might be someone who want's an app like tapatalk to work on a specific forum for the ease of it? The browser works just fine.

3. What? I have copy/paste on my 4S.

4. Surely you must be joking? Or trapped in the past? :p

Dousan...

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900
 

Possibly. As mentioned, none of that I could testify with personal experience. Thanks for clarification.

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900
 

it But here you were talking about speed.
By the time you search for a spreadsheet App, download it, try it, find a way to load your sheets (upload to email and download in App?), then do your editing, convert to correct format, then email that back to your destination... that is going to waste time.

Now compare that frivolous task with Maemo, write your own Application (hours/days/weeks), upload (quickly) to N900, edit (quickly) with mobile UI, upload direct (quickly) to destination.

So, yeah the iPhone is still faster.
This is just an example, you can make the point about anything.

True words: Developers, Developers, Developers!!

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900
 

Er, no, not quite what I am saying. On my desktop machines, I do most of my serious work using a Unix shell. And I do that on Maemo, too. I edit my source code (and, well, most of my other files) in vim. And yeah, I do that on my N900, too. I've almost constantly got a podcast of one sort or another running on gPodder; that is, when I don't have a podcast running on gPodder on my N900. And if I did need to edit a spreadsheet, I'd probably just use a tool like Gnumeric on both devices as well.

Sure, it's fun to run apps on my cell phone, just like it's fun to run apps on an iPhone. And yeah, I do write my own apps too. But when I want to get serious work done, I have access to a suite of tools that can be used across my entire collection of computing devices. I've already invested years (decades, actually...) learning how to use these tools, and I appreciate the ability to leverage that investment on every computing device I have. :)

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900
 

It appears your usage is different, then. I much prefer a full desktop application, even at the sacrifice of speed if necessary. It's saved my *** too many times...

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900
 

I am not big on editing spreadsheets, so I figured I would just download iWork (Numbers) and compare it side to side with my N900. Here is a YouTube video about iWork/Numbers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG90SjqOwsQ

I have Gnumeric booted up right in front of me on my N900, I have Numbers by Apple (from iWork on my iPhone 4S directly next to it)

I can't find one thing that Numbers can't do that Gnumeric can. But I did run into a few issues with Gnumeric reading .xlxs documents. I also had problems with Maemo word processors and .docx formats. Except with the mobile app "DocumentsToGo"

The software that you're recommending can't even open the kind of spreadsheets that the vast majority of people use, then you go on to claim it is more functional. I am sorry, once again, YOU CAN'T EXPECT ME TO TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY.

I don't know is Numbers is the best spreadsheet application for the iPhone but it is a lot better than Gnumeric, I have them both running at the same time, I can open files with Numbers that aren't supported by Gnumeric, it is faster and easier to use with more functionality. Go borrow an iPhone and test them out for yourself, I am sure you will come to the same results, I have been using Gnumeric for YEARS and Numbers for under 24hrs. Yet I am still more proficient with Numbers. It's not really subjective.

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900
 

That's like saying "A bunch of good prison inmates have decent tattoos, hence the tools they use there must be the most efficient."

Fallacious argument at best. I have tried using MyPaint on the N900 - it is a fun TOY but it can't really be used in that form factor functionally.

Edit: but it still wins over the iPhone since I have found the captive touch screen to be useless for any kind of serious drawing, unless someone can prove me wrong.

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900
 

It appears the rest of the claims are false and very outdated (like 2007 outdated) - the iPhone 3GS can do all the things I hear people claiming it can't. Copy and paste? Transferring files from USB without iTunes? Really the iPhone can't do that? Give me a break.

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900
 

I am really disappointed in this community. I don't care if you prefer the N900 over the iPhone or any other device. i don't care if your reasoning is really out there. What I am really disappointed in is your lack of curiosity to see what is out there. It is almost like a religious ideology. I see that with Apple people (they just want shiny thin stuff) but you guys are smart, technical, and many of you are engineers. If I said, "I think there may be a better what of doing this" and you choose to disregard it out of sheer ignorance and in factual data it is doing yourself an injustice.

I have no problem with you saying "My N900 does everything I need it to do." - Where the majority of this community and I butt heads is when you say, "My N900 does everything I need it to do, so I am not even going to consider other options." That's when I have to start doubting the credibility, integrity to the truth, and intelligence of the poster.

Everyone who posted here with the above mindset has given the Maemo/MeeGo community a bad name.

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900
 

xxxxts,

Actually except for maybe 1 or 2 posters everyone has been saying that for their needs the n900 fits and although having considered other options they choose the n900 :)

I have droids and iphones along with WPs but use the n9 as my daily driver...I don't see how there is anything "wrong" with that...I use what I feel is intuitive for me...Most people actually have phones from other OSes but choose the n900 or n9 as their daily driver too; don't let 1 or 2 posters cloud your opinion of all :)

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900
 

The capacitive screen is far from useless to draw on, it just has some limitations. I find it very good to draw on, though more time consuming when speaking of shading/colouring. That's been pretty much resolved with pressure sensitive styli's. No it's not as precise as a Wacom digitiser but good enough for me.
You should google drawings made on an iPad with either Brushes or Procreate and see what is actually possible to do on an capacitive screen.
I only found the navigating in Mypaint dreadful on the N900 the rest was simply very good (apart from the screen size) (though you needed to be OC'd to 1100 to get a good drawing experience).

Dousan...

e: links ;)

Procreate:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/3187413...7626211244595/

Brushes:

http://www.google.dk/search?q=brushe...20&bih=356#p=0

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900
 

I suggest you reread this thread and find how many false claims have been made about the iPhone with sheer ignorance. I made this thread to inform the Maemo community about my transition from an N900 to the iPhone 4S 5.1.1 Jailbroken not to start a debate on what is better, most of the arguments posed to defend the N900 were to simply lie about what the iPhone can and cannot do.

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900
 

I don't own an iPad, can't comment on it.

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900
 

My point is that a capacitive screen is a capacitive screen no matter the size and Brushes comes as a mobile app on iPhone aswel and is just as usefull to draw in as on the iPad (it's just the screen size that differs.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15449311/bru...2009.41.32.png

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15449311/bru...2009.41.44.png

I'd say the capacitive screen even on the iPhone is for serious drawing, though these are not finished ;)

Dousan...

Re: iPhone 4S (iOS 5.1.1): A look back at the N900
 

Well, as an N900 user I have no patience with iOS. All feels like struggle.

after 1.5 years of peace the daughter accidentally upgraded to 5.1.1. despite being warned not to touch anything to prevent this situation.

All useful applications like Dictionaries for school use gone so I had to spend some time in settling the issues.

Ok, Jailbreaking with Absinthe 2.04, that went fine, really.

Next step: Let's first install "Firewall IP to prevent naughty apps phoning home or worse...

Damn, I need a google or facebook account to continue on Cydia.

Seriously, let me just have my serial number in a mailbox of choice or by FAX.
Ok let's download a free testing version with installous: API not found... grr..

I'll check it out during my time on the toillet.

For some reason this iThing feels like a proprietary struggle while the N900 is fun as you are actually learning something useful and widely applicable when adjusting a Linux box to your likings.

To each it's own...
:rolleyes: