Re: Change in Organization, for a better project
 

My thoughts exactly :) Neo900 has shown a lot of progress in the time since "Black aluminium cover replacement" went completely silent and without updates (I don't want to use the term "more progress" as I would need to think this through, but nonetheless the aluminium cover replacement project looks pretty dead/stalled since last autumn... It's sad, as despite the whole idea is arguable, quite a few people are still following it and are interested in finishing that one, too).

And, by the way, does end of GDC involvement mean end of Nicolaus's involvement? Or just GDC will keep away from it, but Neo900 UG will still be able to hire Nicolaus (but pay him per-hour for his work, with respect to his financial needs)? I see lots of small edits of previous posts (both from Nicolaus and Joerg), so I'm a bit confused about the level of "the final end of the participation from GDC" now :confused:

Re: Change in Organization, for a better project
 

Thanks wpwrak and dos1, that is encouraging. If I may ask but one question, what happened to Estel? I could not help noticing that his posts no longer have the Thanks button available (again).

Re: Change in Organization, for a better project
 

Banned, again, you can see it next to his name on any post. How cool it would be if people were machines without egos.

Re: Change in Organization, for a better project
 

Please let's just sort one issue after the other, so far nothing is off the table.

cheers
jOERG

Re: Change in Organization, for a better project
 

Important information for our donors!

Please see: Transfer of funds for reorganization

Re: Change in Organization, for a better project
 

Does potential withdrawal of GDC mean also that Neo900 cannot be based on GTA04? Availibility of GTA04 schmeatics, pcb layout, part suppliers, etc?

Re: Change in Organization, for a better project
 

The schematics are freely available, though we will have to apply changes to adopt N900 particularities, luckily N900 schematics also 'leaked'. In the end Neo900 will have its own schematics anyway. The PCB layout doesn't apply to Neo900, this has to get redone completely (except some footprints). Particular suppliers GDC used in the past are GDC proprietary knowledge obviously - though this changes rapidly and best suppliers need to get evaluated each time anew. DigiKey, mouser, Farnell, arrow etc are common knowledge, finding special parts is tricky no matter how many suppliers you know.
So short bottom line answer: no, it doesn't mean that.

/j

Re: Change in Organization, for a better project
 

thanks for that info, i was also under the impression that it was GDC who will manufacture the Neo900.

OT: recent banning of a member got me checking the forum rules (http://talk.maemo.org/faq.php?faq=vb...b3_board_usage)... infraction points expire but member should behave for 30 days. well i guess his cup is filled to the brim, one drop led to an overflow, again. i hope it was a "third party" moderator who gave the points though. now back to topic. :)

Re: Change in Organization, for a better project
 

Neo900 design files published (because GDC has "sold" them to the community by doing refund minus engineering cost):

http://projects.goldelico.com/p/neo900/downloads/

-- hns

Re: Change in Organization, for a better project
 

Joerg: thought the eagles were not going to be released?
Seems a little odd. Maybe the above post should be pulled until after the project is finished or dead completely.

Re: Change in Organization, for a better project
 

No, we never said that. we always said we'll look into this when the time is due.
Why? We don't have any secrets. Actually publishing that stuff now was the right thing to do by GDC.

cheers
jOERG

Re: Change in Organization, for a better project
 

Just a heads up here...
I went to do a bank transfer today....
In regards to the bank transfer info...
In Canada our 3 national banks will not simply do a bank transfer with only this info:

Account owner: Neo900 UG (haftungsbeschränkt)
IBAN: DE55 7607 0024 0043 4332 00
BIC (SWIFT): DEUTDEDB760, Deutsche Bank
Customer reference / payment details: your e-mail address

None of the national banks will send money anywhere without the account owners address. In their words sending money blindly without knowing where it is going is unaccountable.

If there is no physic address I can't do a bank transfer.

And you will have to pardon me here ...but I'm not about to do another credit card donation...that simply isn't happening. :D

Hopefully there is an answer here that will enable myself and others to get the funds to you guys.

Re: Change in Organization, for a better project
 

Sorry to hear that it caused problems :(
Of course there's an address, it's in the details in http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...29#post1426929 in http://handelsregister-online.net/ne...cfm?cn=3966641 but of course it should have been mentioned in our letter and everything.
So here it is for now:
Thanks for the headsup and sorry for missing on that detail, we updated it in our newsletter and the donate page.
cheers
jOERG

Re: Change in Organization, for a better project
 

Oops, sorry. Joerg was faster (did not refresh that tab/window). :)


That smells like total BS from CDN banks.
Above IBAN/BIC code is european wide the only interesting info.
You could write as receiver: 'Peter Pan and Wendy' and the money would go to mentioned account.

Nevertheless here is the desired info:

Neo900 UG
Untere Kanalstraße 7
D-90429 Nürnberg
Germany

from handelsregister

BUT maybe you should ask your bank clerk whether he will deliver it personally to that address? :cool:

Re: Change in Organization, for a better project
 

Yarg! I thought I saw it...even hunted through a few threads looking before I went to the bank...just to make sure I had all pertinent data.
:D Hehehe
No worries ...If I had to take a tramp steamer with the money clenched in my fist ...I was determined to get it there somehow.

I'm going back to my bank this afternoon...I'm sure it will be no prob now...all the other posted info was fine with the bank so it was just an address detail.
Perhaps editing the 1st post of the prime thread with the bank transfer details ...or the neo website ...somewhere real prominent would be easier to find after all this gets buried by future posts.

Crisis averted and sending funds :D

Re: Change in Organization, for a better project
 

Hahaha
THAT was my problem!!!! I put the receiver down as "Mr. Smee" !!! :D

Nobody ever takes poor old Mr. Smee seriously...!

I always thought he was the misunderstood one ....hence the banks would be sympathetic. Nix on them.

One of the reasons why the banks must have addresses nowadays could have something to do with the fact that scrutiny has found that our rich have been trying to funnel money out of the country to avoid taxes...Our gov't has been trying to close off these "rat tunnels" and make sure that even the rich (who pay the least in taxes compared to what joe-blo must pay) pay what they are expected to.
Hell just recently it came to light that the new head of our national mint was found to be in hot water after trying to help some family friends move assets off-shore to avoid taxes.

So yeh... ...our people had enough of that crap.

Done and done...money sent...20euro/30$ banking fee though...(sigh).
There must be a cheaper way (fee -wise) than either credit card or bank transfer.
Even paypal doesn't gouge THAT much for 1 transaction of sending money.
'cause the fee-weevils (:D) are REALLY sucking gallons of blood I could be giving you guys.

Re: Change in Organization, for a better project
 

hi joerg, is there no more simple donate method, like using paypal?

Re: Change in Organization, for a better project
 

Sorry, I started reactivating that whole stuff only a few days ago, and so far didn't even try to create a paypal account for the UG. While I guess eventually such thing will happen, it won't be this week for sure. Also I heard *several* stories about paypal freezing accounts particularly when they receive lots of payments immediately after being opened, and I guess that's something we want to encounter the least, right?
Another huge problem is: I have no shipping service yet, and thus can't tell which regions might be problematic, and I think it would be dishonest do accept donations without even being able to tell if we can deliver a device to that region, or at least clearly explain that problem, which is not exactly easy to do for paypal. I wonder if I could send back donations when it turns out we can't do service to that region.
Please also see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=92428 which deals with that problem which existed since beginning.
Please stay tuned, stuff is likely to improve, slowly but constantly.

cheers
jOERG

Re: Change in Organization, for a better project
 

I was thinking would simple money transfer service work ?
something like : http://www.riafinancial.com/global/s...-transfer.aspx
it has locations all over the world : https://www.riamoneytransfer.com/ria-locator
This might simplify the whole donation process
You can even send ca$h :D

Shipping service
 

Could the community perhaps help ? Residents of the various prospective destinations are the most likely to know - among each other, individual experiences can of course vary - how their customs work.

We did something like this at Openmoko:
http://archive.today/jlt53

Also, people living in a country with unpredictable or overly restrictive customs may bring the device with them when they travel abroad, or ask friends to do so. A strict filter based on country of residence would therefore exclude people unnecessarily. It would make sense to show those at higher risk of encountering problems a warning, though.

- Werner

Re: Change in Organization, for a better project
 

Yes, as I understand it this service at least allows CC payments to international bank accounts(!) for US citizens - already a great option for all those US donors who can't use anything but CC.

/j

Re: Change in Organization, for a better project
 

UPDATE: Recorrection :D

From at least my sitch...
GDC DID refund my remaining cc donation to Neo900 UG.
Great! Just got confirmation.

Hehe...I was unsure whether it went to Neo900 UG or considering some confusion surrounding how cc donations were to be handled...and certain particular circumstances if it would make it/ had made it back to the credit card...
naturally figuring it eventually went to the credit card...

So..of course... I directly transferred another 100 Euros last Saturday.
I don't want it back ...the fees taken along the way will just accumulate.
If we go to 1st run production ...just consider my 200 Euro donation/deposit (minus of course.. all the devel, r+d and necessary bla-bla-bla :D )and and apply it to my final bill.
Hopefully that sounds adequate.

Re: Change in Organization, for a better project
 

A question just popped up in my head:
If someone donated more than 100 Euros to GDC and now got his refund (-13.2%), how do you track who donated how much and therefore how much discount he gets on the final device due to already spent R&D contributions?

Example (disregarding the bonus):
If person A donated exactly 100 Euros in the first place then his R&D contribution would be 13.20 Euros. So if the final device would cost 700 Euros he'd still have to pay 686.80 Euros.
If person B donated 200 Euros his R&D contribution would be 26.40 Euros, and therefore he'd still have to pay 673,60 Euros.

Do you have an agreement with GDC to transfer this kind of info? And if you have, how do you manage the organisational overhead this certainly brings?

Personally I'd be fine to consider this difference a true donation, but others might not be.

Re: Change in Organization, for a better project
 

The math doesn't make sense..

Person A.donates 100 Euros minus 13 =if the final device would cost 700 Euros he'd still have to pay 686.80 Euros.
Ok...wo--wowowo no how does your math make sense period...so where does the other 84 euros out of the 100 donated go?

donate 200 Euros minus 26 (understandably mathematically proportionate ..as being 2x that 13%....not sure if that is exactly what is done...but for arguement ...lets say ...sure....)

So...If person B donated 200 Euros his R&D contribution would be 26.40 Euros, and therefore he'd still have to pay 673,60 Euros.
200 Euros donated you get a grand bill out of an initial 700 euros as having to STILL pay 673? That is messed up math man.


And How did you come up with the same final billing shy of 13euros difference for both parties even though one donated double the amount?
Your basic math here is flawed

By this estimation a person making a donation/ deposit of say 700 Euros would be contributing 91 Euros and his final bill would be 609 Euros. Not only is the math flawed ...it is blatantly unfair as the individual who donated 100 euros definitely isn't paying anything proportionately....wheras the individual dumping money by the bucket to help fund this devel has to hemorrhage MORE money to fall further behind.
Very bad math... which if applied.... would dictate ANY donation would be folly.

Re: Change in Organization, for a better project
 

It assumes you got your donation back from GDC instead of having it transfered to Neo900 UG directly.
This way you get everything back except those 13.2% R&D, which ist 13.20 Euros for an initial 100 Euro donation and 26.40 Euro for a 200 Euro donation.
To pay the device again (this time to the UG instead of GDC) you have to pay the assumed 700 Euros minus your still valid 13.2% R&D contribution, which differs in absolute amount depending on how much you donated in the first place.

Edit:
Maybe this example makes it easier to understand:
Lets not talk about the final price but about your 100+ Euro donation.
If you initially donated 100 Euros you got 86.20 Euro back from GDC and have to pay those 86.80 Euros to the UG to make it valid again.
But if you donated 200 Euros and now decide to not donate the full 200 Euros again but only the basic 100 Euros you do not have to pay 86.80 Euros but 73.60 Euros because your 2x 13.20 Euros R&D are still in the pool.

Re: Change in Organization, for a better project
 

That's why we ask donors to provide the invoice from GDC, so we can know exactly when and how much was donated back then.

Re: Change in Organization, for a better project
 

Ah I see where you are coming from now...
yes....do not forget too the cost to the individual here.
As example...thankfully my initial donation got forwarded on to neo900 ug...since if it had made it back to the card....for myself...saying ..if (by sheer luck) no additional fees were applied when it got back to me and I then took that refund of 84 euros went to my bank it will now cost me AN ADDITIONAL 20+ Euros (regardless of the amount I am sending) to bank transfer that 84 Euros to Neo900 UG
So thankfully (at least for myself ) the money was simply transferred from GDC to Neo900 UG....because that would have been extraordinarily exceptional waste.

Re: Change in Organization, for a better project
 

Not just CDN. It might be simpler within the eurozone but here in the UK an international transfer is a major undertaking. Different banks have different requirements (and different charges) but all of them require, on top of the IBAN and SWIFT codes, at least the full account name, the name and address of the account holder and the name and address of the bank where the money is going.

Re: Change in Organization, for a better project
 

Yup........

Re: Change in Organization, for a better project
 

Neo900 UG will remember every single cent you donated, no matter to whom and what it been spent for. We want to make sure you won't regret having donated :) The final price of device will include and cover any R&D expense, as well as BOM expense and production cost and management ($this) and shipping cost, etc. And from that we, for example, might charge you only the remaining amount, after we subtracted the money you donated and we virtually will have refunded to you same moment you will regularly order the device when sales open. The details of how to establish this have still to get specified by my lawyer and tax adviser since we definitely need to do this in a way that's absolutely legal and correct, but in the end you will be happy having donated.

cheers
jOERG

Re: Change in Organization, for a better project
 

Ach I'm not worried about what happens to my money once you get it..I completely trust you guys on that...It's GETTING it to you and the fee-weevils that eat chunks in the process...
I weep and lament the lost monstrous cask of proper work-beer it coulda bought you guys...that the fee-weevils took :D

I don't care what anyone says....Work-beer IS important (Only in the hottest summer that is.....keeps you cool....coldest winter weather...gotta change to a good aged single malt irish whiskey...nice and smooth and warm....can't go drinkin beer in the winter...pissin' all your body heat away now.)...
Just a few....keeps the mind quick and flexible ...the hands light and nimble...very important Work-beer.
Essential work supply/tool.
Personally I grew up a farm-boy ...hot work in the summer...cold work in the winter...don't touch a drop until the temp. is either too cold or too hot...then...pop the cork...
No joke.
It is critical for morale and increased production.
doesn't matter how bad things get...whatever the sitch.
You gotta flask in your pocket or a beer in your hand and whatever the dire sitch...it ain't so bad ....a breeze workin through it..eh?
I stand by it.
Work-beer.

Re: Change in Organization, for a better project
 

Has anyone (US) who donated via credit card seen a refund show up on their account?

Thanks!

Re: Change in Organization, for a better project
 

Please note that processing CC rollbacks is probably a time consuming task, and tends to take even longer when it needs checks whether or not your CC refund could get transferred to Neo900 UG instead of your account - so you ordered that. If you ordered neither transfer (to UG) nor refund (to your account), then you're likely the last in queue to get processed.

cheers
jOERG

Re: Change in Organization, for a better project
 

I have been away for a while, don't want to trawl through these threads..
Question 1: How do I transfer what is left of my 100 Euros to
Neo900 UG?
Question 2: Do I still qualify for 100 Euros off a finished Neo900 or
is my 'donation' depreciated by what has already been spent/transfer/tax costs etc....

Still looking forward to receiving at least one Neo900.

Owner of four N900's...:):)

Re: Change in Organization, for a better project
 

1) add a "Note" on your goldelico order page instructing them to send your money to Neo900 UG, with IBAN/BIC from
http://neo900.org/funds-transfer

if that is impossible, goldelico will get in touch with you. after you receive an invoice for your refund, send the email with original order invoice and refund invoice, as detailed in the funds-transfer page above.

2) joerg said that "Neo900 UG will remember every single cent you donated, no matter to whom and what it been spent for ... in the end you will be happy having donated"

Re: Change in Organization, for a better project
 

@wolke
I have just done as suggested,
thanks...

Re: Change in Organization, for a better project
 

Mee too. Thanks and keep the nice work on Neo900.

Re: Change in Organization, for a better project
 

@rcolistete
Did you hear anything from goldelico after your money transfer request?
I haven't heard a thing from them...

Re: Change in Organization, for a better project
 

Don't worry, it may be that GDC simply hasn't processed your request yet. Some time may still be needed until it's all done.

What's important (unless someone decided to get a refund of course) is that donations are already steadily arriving on Neo900 UG account, so it's definitely - but slowly - progressing.

Re: Change in Organization, for a better project
 

We've sent first confirmation mails a few hours ago about incoming payments to Neo900 UG account.

All payments received on our account till 2014-06-11 should be already confirmed (except one which requires some manual clarification between GDC and UG).

If someone hasn't received that confirmation yet - don't worry! Transfers from GDC are still far from being finished, so it will still take some time until it's all on Neo900 UG account and we can process those donations.

PS. If you are a lucky owner of one of the four mailboxes that bounced back our confirmation mail, I have resent it manually from my own mailbox, so don't be surprised at mail from me signed with Joerg's name ;)