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maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)

- SailfishOS (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=52)

- - SailfishOS Update10 discussions (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94245)

meet.vino

2014-12-12 20:21

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1451882)

Why not simply buy a big screen android while waiting for the update?

Had I wanted one, I cud have got not just one on the money I spent one on Jolla.

And I a not a big screen fan either. Still feel that the best size for a phone is that of the N9.

coderus

2014-12-12 20:24

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

1 Attachment(s)

Just relax and wait u10

Dave999

2014-12-12 20:28

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by coderus (Post 1451887)

Just relax and wait u10

Do you live in the woods?

meet.vino

2014-12-12 20:28

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Hey Coderus, am not just waiting for the next update, but also for you next Whatsapp client. Am still using Mitaakuulu. Thank you for all your efforts.

aegis

2014-12-12 20:29

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Could it be you've just bought a second-hand lemon meet.vino?

I have none of the issues you're complaining of. I'm not saying others haven't had issues with batteries not being held firmly causing restarts or haptics failing or other issues, but, there are lots of people that love the hardware and have had zero issues.

coderus

2014-12-12 20:33

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1451889)

Do you live in the woods?

it's not my place, it's sailfishos place :)

rcolistete

2014-12-12 20:35

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by meet.vino (Post 1451885)

Does it mean that it is only for geeks and not for common man who want to use the phone mostly for calling, taking pictures, may be listen to a few songs and browse the internet?

No, it doesn't mean.

Swipe UI, without buttons, is to please the common users, not geeks. Swipe UI is unlike Android, iOS, WP, etc.

All the above tasks were done easily with Nokia N900, N9 and now Jolla smartphone. I don't have any problem at all to use them for those tasks. So in your words and reasoing, a common man can use Jolla smartphone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by meet.vino (Post 1451885)

Call drops is an ugly thing (may be only a few unlucky ones like me experience going by so many being surprised that it is happening) and browsing the internet is something most would agree is not an experience you could truly be satisfied with.

Even older Sailfish version on Nexus 4 didn't give me the above problems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by meet.vino (Post 1451885)

So what good is a phone to a layman with all the " desktop Linux features, like shell (bash, etc), GNU utilities, repositories and dependencies (so libraries and softwares are reused by other softwares), many programming languages (C/C++, Python, etc, which you can use on device), Terminal, etc, without any need of third-party software, unlike Android, iOS, WP, etc;
- it was the first mobile OS to have Qt 5, Qt Quick 2, Wayland, and it continues to be so, unlike Android, iOS, WP, etc;
- it supports Jolla Other Half covers, with in/out electrical connections (I2C communication, etc), totally unlike Android, iOS, WP, etc;" if it doesn't do what a basic phone is supposed to do?

I've cited the above unlike features because were are in Talk Maemo.org, where many users like Linux-like smartphones (Maemo 5, MeeGo Harmattan) and Qt softwares.

For a common user, I would cite as advantages of Sailfish :
- swipe UI with gestures instead of buttons;
- reduced battery use compared to Android (3 days instead of 1 on my Nexus 4);
- real live and full multitasking, able to see up to 9 softwares running at once, without the mobile OS closing sofwares at will;
- NSA free as Jolla has no connection with USA "secret" laws.

I've had a cousin using Nokia N900 without any interest in Linux, Terminal, Gtk/Qt, Python, etc. He used it as a qwerty smartphone and as very happy with it for some years.

pagis

2014-12-12 20:36

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

@bockersjv I think you misinterpret @Morpog statements, SailFishOS is just more than a year old, although it is based on Mer/Nemo it brings lots of new stuff and direct comparison on maturity with other mobile OSes need to bear that in mind. What I can see tho is that with each new release (yes new release, despite blunders) SailFish is getting better and better no doubt.

Native apps for SailFishOS have to be written from scratch, not an easy task, Jolla has limited resources and cannot pay others developing apps. Take for example Mitakuuluu, full featured WA for SailfishOS, WA does not like third part apps, and at the same time is not interested to develop an official app for this platform, unless ...? I use the phone on daily basis and I hvae not installed any android apps.

Some ppl complain for reboots, I think this is some h/w issue, e.g. faulty battery, but again to be honest a small company like Jolla cannot have access to exotic h/w, unlike N9 and N900.

meet.vino

2014-12-12 20:38

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

I believe I got it from a man who was a very decent person who even offered to return the money, when he wasn't able to find any one who would ship the phone with the Lithium Ion battery initially and even waived off about $80 when at last he was able to find some one. So I don't think I was sold a phone that had issues, at least not intentionally. But sometimes I do get that feeling. What bothers me is that when I go to various forums I find people narrating almost the same issues and it makes me feel that the next update would resolve my issues. There have been times when I am really happy when I am able to do things on my Jolla that others aren't able to do, (the peep thing for example!). My Jolla does work beautifully sometimes, but is not consistent.

meet.vino

2014-12-12 20:48

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

[QUOTE=rcolistete;1451893]. So in your words and reasoing, a common man can use Jolla smartphone.

Never doubted it, that's why I bought one!

For a common user, I would cite as advantages of Sailfish :
- swipe UI with gestures instead of buttons;
- reduced battery use compared to Android (3 days instead of 1 on my Nexus 4);
- real live and full multitasking, able to see up to 9 softwares running at once, without the mobile OS closing sofwares at will;
- NSA free as Jolla has no connection with USA "secret" laws.

I thot I was discussing Sailfish on a Jolla, rather than Sailfish on a Nexus 4, which happens to have a 2 GB RAmM and a faster chipset.

I've had a cousin using Nokia N900 without any interest in Linux, Terminal, Gtk/Qt, Python, etc. He used it as a qwerty smartphone and as very happy with it for some years.

And thats exactly how I want to use my Jolla.

chappi

2014-12-12 20:55

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by bockersjv (Post 1451867)

And there lies the major issue. Sailfish has to appeal to the masses for Jolla to succeed. At the moment it feels like a hobbyist experiment. I am not a programmer or app developer, I just wanted to support something that I saw was different and promised to communicate with its customers and be unlike.

Hey if you think this is trolling and poisonous fine. I think it is constructive criticism because I want to see Jolla succeed and someone has to be able to say the "Emporer is wearing no clothes".

You are not a programmer:
--> you underestimate the time it takes to make something 80, 90 100 % perfect
--> you underestimate how easy it is to err with time estimates
--> you underestimate how much already has been done, yes some parts are naked, but others covered with most beautiful silk ;-)
--> sometimes you could take a short cut when doing something hasty, but this is terrible longterm. E.g. Jolla said that they had many problems with updating to Qt5.2 but did not only fix for Qt5.2 but (afaiu) also give the fixes upstream for Qt5.3/5.4. It took longer but it's the correct way to do, especially if you are a small team.

I think everybody here wants Jolla to succeed (where would/could you go else?). But imho sailfish needs a little bit (one/two years) more time to mature. And some claims were probably a bit too early and/or broad (open source).

rcolistete

2014-12-12 21:06

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by meet.vino (Post 1451896)

I thot I was discussing Sailfish on a Jolla, rather than Sailfish on a Nexus 4, which happens to have a 2 GB RAmM and a faster chipset.

I've cited Sailfish on Nexus 4 just to compare battery usage in the same hardware, running Android 4 x Sailfish.

I also have a Jolla smartphone, with last Sailfish version.

Sailfish on Jolla x Nexus 4 has about the same speed, for UI or calculations (I've made some benchmarks).

pichlo

2014-12-12 21:10

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmi (Post 1451737)

Often (not always) having more options is better. In this case, if we would have a setting switch for showing a status bar or not, what would happen to the apps? Would they need to be scaled? Would they lose pixels up or down? Sorry, but I just don't see this happening anyway sensibly.

I guess you are not a developer, are you? Switching an app from a full screen to half screen to 95% of the screen is a trivial operation. It has been around since before most TMO readers have even been born. Many apps do it on Maemo all the time.

Or are you saying that Sailfish does not allow resizable windows? (I don't know yet, I only just started with Sailfish development. Can any developer suggest the closest Sailfish equivalent to Maemo's stacked windows?) That would explain a lot, including the weird split-screen target. But then, if that is really the case, then we have a much bigger problem than a missing status bar :)

chappi

2014-12-12 21:14

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by meet.vino (Post 1451878)

Morpog, I did that a long time ago and the restarts reduced drastically for a couple of months. [snip] Now imagine the same thing happening with a few colleagues of yours, especially those who have been mocking you for buying a phone they haven't heard of yet. Another chance for them to take a dig at you!! Can you now feel my frustration?!! [snip]
I am not a HATER! I want Jolla to succeed, all I ask is give me a solid product before you plan for the next one.

I can fully understand this. In fact about six months ago, I had also problems with restarts... and you should have heard the laughter of my friends, it was not funny!! For some business calls it was totally embarassing for me. On the other hand I mocked them a lot about using closed ecosystem (while they are strongly against such developments in principle).

But both is ok, I respect them being pragmatic and I think despite their laughter they fully understand the potential value/importance in Jolla.

Fortunately the 'paper trick' fixed the restarts and I had no more problems with broken phone calls.

pichlo

2014-12-12 21:44

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morpog (Post 1451865)

I'm not against criticism, but it has to have a serious foundation.

Then I am afraid I have to agree with Dave999. Your attitude has more to do with uncritical fanboyism than with objective judgement.

A true love is when you are fully aware of the object of your love's shortcomings but you still love it (him, her) despite them. Being blind to them only leads to disappointment and broken hearts.

ZogG	2014-12-12 23:40

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morpog (Post 1451859)

I'm so bored of the same ******** everytime. Can the haters just please leave and let us alone? We heard your rants so many times already, we don't need to hear it again and again. Just leave if you don't like how it is.

If you want to improve it, join OSS or community meetings from Jolla. The loudest people in here I never see there. I also don't see anyone contributing in open parts. So you are just interested in trolling and being poisonous.

EOD

I don't need to leave, Jolla got invitation to have official part of forum here, but they went and opened TJC, so you can lave here and go there, especially as it's MAEMO.org
And about what OSS you are talking exactly? And i was at first meeting btw and read logs of few latest. Btw the one where Stskeeps explaining that it was not cool that Marc called Sailfish OS opensource(as it's not) on adv of tablet, but again there was no update or statemement about it. So you can talk on those meetings as much as you can, nothing is done. As well as i was promised the sim problem explanation on TJC and IRC and the official statement was "email to support". So you can call me hater or whatever you want fanboy, but do not forget to do a ritual dance and prays for glory Jolla before you go to sleep.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nthn (Post 1451866)

Yeah, CyanogenMod. Not Android, not AOSP, but CyanogenMod. Let me just go to the shop and buy a phone with CyanogenMod on it - oh wait, I can't. Installing an aftermarket firmware on a phone isn't really what I would call 'a few clicks', and is not something I see anyone doing just like that. You can compare Google's Android and Jolla's Sailfish OS, but if you want to compare CyanogenMod with something, it's Mer Project and nothing else.

By the way, adding passive aggressive emoticons to your statements doesn't give them any more value.

And if i'll provide you at least few phones with open source android you can buy?
https://oneplus.net/
http://global.oppo.com/
And add Nexus to phone you can easily root and get F-Droid or Replicant on it (100% OSS too)
Yes with last two firmwares you need to flash, but at least you can flash OSS system on your phone with few clicks and probably without bricking it( and option to unbrick it), while with Jolla you cant get Nemo easily there, and if so it would not work properly.
Whatever you say, android is more OSS. And yes i don't like Android and do not use it, and yet still as much we don't like it, it's more OSS and OSS friendly than Jolla :)
Edit:
About few click:
there is RomManager and i saw rooting apps on market. I don't see anything less easy than installing app and choosing ROM to install.
What else you want? Massage?

Leinad

2014-12-13 00:11

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by meet.vino (Post 1451878)

Morpog, I did that a long time ago and the restarts reduced drastically for a couple of months. But after updating to Uitukka, its started again. Just imagine you having you Jolla in your pant pockets, u can hear the phone ring, and before you can take it out, the ring stops and you find your phone restarting. Now imagine the same thing happening with a few colleagues of yours, especially those who have been mocking you for buying a phone they haven't heard of yet. Another chance for them to take a dig at you!! Can you now feel my frustration?!! And to rub salt into my wounds, I tried putting my phone on silent mode, the vibrator wont work. Now before you tell me to enable heptic feedback, I have it turned on!

I am not a HATER! I want Jolla to succeed, all I ask is give me a solid product before you plan for the next one.

you can remove the paper and clean your battery contacts. it has a much better effect than the paper.
i cleaned my contacts with a q-tip and a little bit od WD-40 some month ago and all problems were gone ever since.

it is a hardware problem: low quality contacts which are simply rusting / corrodating by time and hence get a higher impedance and cause these problems.
but as i said before, some WD-40 works miracles against rust :)

maybe there are better suitable products like contact spray, but i had only this and it helped.

MartinK

2014-12-13 00:16

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcolistete (Post 1451883)

I disagree. Jolla focus is not to reach a niche user base at all.

Yep, this is quite evident, but is probably causing quite a lot of the community friction, as an above average percentage of Jolla users are more technically able/niche early adopters. So if you don't focus on a nice userbase while it makes a significant part of your users (or even more importantly a a very significant part of third party application developers), issues can arise. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chappi (Post 1451901)

For the record, I have to say I also have the random reboots and shutdowns and know about other local Jolla users having the same issues, so this unfortunately seems to be quite a frequent issue.... On the other hand, coming from the Neo FreeRunner legacy, I mostly consider the reboots to be just a power wasting nuisance as the Jolla boots quite quickly & I have a real mobile phone for calling anyway (6610i), so have no issues with dropped calls. :)

Also just got a new Jolla battery today, so I'll try to exchange it with the current to see if it influences the reboots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZogG (Post 1451915)

Marc called Sailfish OS opensource(as it's not) on adv of tablet, but again there was no update or statemement about it.

There was an updates of sorts - the controversial wording was quietly dropped from the Jolla tablet website & the campaign website. ;-)

But for sure it would be good to have an official statement now when the campaign & the funding round is over.

tmi	2014-12-13 00:55

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1451900)

Not an app developer, no. You are probably right. I was thinking too much in the sense of image cropping, resizing and changing ratios instead of windows containing elements.

But the screen/window size and lost pixels was not the only point. I am not convinced that the status bar holds any such information that you'd need to be able to see all the time. If the information was harder to obtain than the peek gesture I'd understand but currently I don't see the benefit of an added status bar.

In any case, I doubt the status bar will be an upcoming feature, even as an optional. To my understanding, the absence is a design principle plus according to the lack of TJC upvotes, not that greatly missed.

Dave999

2014-12-14 19:29

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

So we have now entered one month of jolla no update air space? Wtf jolla slackers... ;)

Code freeze deluxe. No commits allowed. We are in holiday mode.

Sir, hands up, step away from the keyboard :D

Zoloo

2014-12-15 08:39

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Any news or info?

mariusmssj

2014-12-15 08:49

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoloo (Post 1452237)

Any news or info?

As far as I am aware the update will not be released this week as Jolla said:

Quote:

We really hope to release before Christmas, though in the event we are unable to accomplish the improvements stated above by the end of next week (=1 week before Christmas holidays begin), we will not release update10 during December. We prefer to not release at the start of a vacation period when we are not around to support you in the first few days of a new release.

Which is this week, so they could not finalize the update last week thus we will receive update 10 after the new year.

pagis

2014-12-15 09:59

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

hurry up Santa!

clovis86

2014-12-15 10:05

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

You should rather wait for Twelfth Night IMO :D

http://curiousramblerdotcom.files.wo...s-rois-pie.jpg

pagis

2014-12-15 10:20

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

it's about time

Dave999

2014-12-15 10:39

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Last christmas we got a phone...this year? Nada. Not even update 10 or info about update 10.

and no snow either. What a shitty year :D

Morpog

2014-12-15 11:54

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Fresh rumour from Stefano Mosconi:

https://twitter.com/zzste/status/544425126947979264

Quote:

Finally this #sailfishos #update10 RC starts to look really good. Hurry up #Santa #nopromisesyet

Dave999

2014-12-15 13:46

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morpog (Post 1452252)

Fresh rumour from Stefano Mosconi:

https://twitter.com/zzste/status/544425126947979264

what is that suppose to mean?

Morpog

2014-12-15 13:54

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

it means there is still a slight chance to get the update this year!

Edit: corrected stupid typo

clovis86

2014-12-15 14:01

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

chance, not change :D

Zoloo

2014-12-15 15:18

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1452245)

Last christmas we got a phone...this year? Nada. Not even update 10 or info about update 10.

and no snow either. What a shitty year :D

Hahaha :D:D:D:D

billranton

2014-12-15 15:28

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

However much people are crowing now will be nothing compared to the furore if they release it full of bugs then go on holiday. That said, can has opt-in plox?

Zoloo

2014-12-16 00:50

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Is it possible to get Android on my Jolla?
Android is much better than Sailfish OS.
I'm kinda frustrated with Sailfish OS (Customer care is ZERO!!! NO INFO,NO NEWS, NO UPDATE,NOTHING NEW, THERE IS NO MORE NOTHING!!!)

Zoloo

2014-12-16 00:55

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

I think Sailfish OS means Selfish OS, they are ALIKE

d0n_Egg1

2014-12-16 06:31

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoloo (Post 1452319)

Well of course it's your opinion.. And it might be the truth that android is 'better' but thats a very personal question. Nevertheless what you're stating isn't quite right.

Customer care is in my opinion very good. Asked them a lot kf questions, and always got the answer or information within the next day. Exemple: I asked them about the shared google calendars which aren't displayed by the native calendar. They informed me very well where the problem is and that they're working on it.

No info/news: thats something i think we all were a little disappointed about at the beginning. But in the meantime, they worked on that point of critic. Best example for that: the post on TJC about the current state of the update 10. (By the way.. together.jolla.com is a good site if you're looking for information and news from jolla / about jolla and sailfish os)

No updates / nothing new: haha that is a good joke. Lets count updates on amdroid in the last year: some bugfixes kitkat and lollipop were released? (Not sure if kitkat was released within end 2013 / 2014?!)
Updates sailfish os: https://jolla.com/updates/ read it and you will see that there were a lot of updates and new features.
I don't want to compare sailfish os with android just because of the fact that android exists some years longer than sailfish os and android is made by google which have money to wipe the a** of every dev from android.

So if we look at those facts i would say, that jolla is doing a very very good job with sailfish os in relation to their ressources. and i'm sure that they're working very hard to satisfy their users. All we have to do is: being patient and see what the future brings. But if you want to leave our community and dont want to see something new grow up and become a very interesting and indeed very unlike mobile OS then feel free :)
(I'm sorry for any grammar mistakes, writing such a text on a smartphone is hardcore :D)

pichlo

2014-12-16 07:10

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoloo (Post 1452319)

NO INFO,NO NEWS, NO UPDATE,NOTHING NEW, THERE IS NO MORE NOTHING!!!)

Eh? No update? WTF is this, then?

https://together.jolla.com/question/...s-of-update10/

nthn	2014-12-16 09:05

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoloo (Post 1452321)

I think Sailfish OS means Selfish OS, they are ALIKE

Funny because Marc Dillon actually pronounces it as 'sellfish OS'.

herpderp

2014-12-16 10:14

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoloo (Post 1452319)

Statements like this get people banned around here! :D

Dave999

2014-12-16 10:49

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

Quote:

Originally Posted by nthn (Post 1452349)

Funny because Marc Dillon actually pronounces it as 'sellfish OS'.

selfieOS...

Kake41

2014-12-16 14:52

Re: SailfishOS Update10 discussions

How about Jolla then... It seems that only Finns are able to pronounce it correctly [jolla], not [yolo] or [jola].

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