Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

Well the news of this moto mod has already spread to some news sites like phonearena!

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

Nice to see some attentions. I was planning to send some heads up mails to those news sites but they found it before I do? Great!

Some quick heads up for the concern of size of device, I changed the layout slightly, mainly moved the alphabet to the right and removed some useless keys, now it all looks better.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ig9z3ib3ihh1w6a/0223.PNG?dl=0

This thread now became the news channel, as this is the origin and motivation for this whole project.

How about doing a "maemo" special version with "Maemo" logo printed at the back?

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

Heh, I was happy about those useless keys at first, because they could be remapped to cover full Russian alphabet. There are still Del and PgUp/PgDn which could be abused for this though :).

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

Just share some my own thoughts and observations when using hardware keyboards.

1.
Having two function keys (f.e. Alt and some other) right near the Shift key (especially one above and one below) can help in customization using the keyboard and improve convenience and usability.
For example on Droid 4 I have SYM and Caps Lock keys near the Shift.
It allows me to enter symbols when using the first one (either with and without Shift) and other symbols or Polish language specific small/big letters when using the second one (without/with Shift).

2.
Having the CTRL key on the left might make it harder to use many commonly used key shortcuts for example CTRL+Z combo (slightly easier with CTRL + C) because the keys are close each other and it is hard to press them simultaneously using both thumbs on the relatively small keyboard.

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

Interesting to see some people feel a difference in their thumbs.
I'm right handed, and never ever though of that while using the hardware keyboard of my Motorola Photon Q, which have the cursor on the right side. I find it comfortable to edit text, and it has the advantage of being on the same side as the backspace key which is also used when editing text (moving the cursor backward, delete some characters, move forward, etc...).
I wouldn't used it as a gamepad to play games, not so much because we have the habit of having it on the left side on gamepads, but because it is too small and needs too much pressure to be used comfortably and fast in games. This is a completely different usage as when used in typing and editing.

chenliangchen, I would recommand for the pressure needed to activate the key to stay below the levels needed for the Photon Q, as it is the limit to be comfortable. On long typing sessions, it starts to feel heavy.
Good luck with your project, the moto Z is too big for me, but I will follow your work closely !

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

Could you maybe specify the size of a key or the whole width in mm please.
It would make possible to print your mockup in original size to show it around among friends ;)

How about making that mandatory like "powered by maemo (<logo) community" to have a little advertisment for our common cause? :p
Haha, kidding.

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

now, if only motorola didn't ditch the 3.5mm jack maybe I would consider a new one to replace the Play I have. Or get Play Z. Which is slightly bigger and mods don't fit so nicely :(

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

It is designed to suit Z Play, in fact we are using Z play for all the tests. Spec wise Z play is much better and reasonable than the Z. (The only thing I want which it doesn't have is the removable battery....)

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

Great. But you are aware that those two are slightly different and if you make a mod that perfectly fits Play than it will be slightly bigger on Z? And I like the fitting more on the regular Z.
Stupid Lenovo. What's the point of making two differently sized phones for the same mods :confused:

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

chengliangchen, can you please make a summary at the OP? I can see that some community device is being worked on (?), but anything else is still cryptic to me. And I don't have time to read whole 13 pages.

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

In short, I will build a landscape slider keyboard for Moto Z series, about to launch a campaign on IGG.

If this is successful then will consider doing an all in one slider.

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

The back will be the same. There is no difference.

It's just attaching to the back, thickness of device itself doesn't matter. (well only difference is Z Play will be overall chunkier)

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

What will it run? Fremantle, SFOS, Devuan?

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

I really like that this one is better (symmetrical). However I would still consider "splitting" the keyboard. I mean something like this:
https://s23.postimg.org/7ocmhohgb/Moto_Mod_layout.png
Like I previously pointed out it might be hard to reach the middle buttons. That is why recommend "splitted" layout. I just edited that quickly so don't mind the buttons orders so much. I believe that you got the idea. It is just my opinion :).

Not bad idea at all. I believe that it could be extra perk in Indiegogo?

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

One of the biggest comfort issues with TOHKBD was the weight of the phone compared to the keyboard half (after using it for a while, the weight of the phone part put quite a lot of strain on my thumbs when holding onto the keyboard part).

Any idea how heavy the keyboard part will be compared to the phone, since this will affect the balance (heavier kbd is better in this instance).

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

This has been discussed already - it will run Android, and whatever OS people choose to port to the phone.

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

Well, Chen said it will have some sort of extra batterypack / powerbank included. (right?)
This will surely add some weight compared to TOHKBD.

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

I think it is an unwise decision to have the camera obscured by the mod. If it is intended for people to have the mod on most of the time and then remove it if they want to take a picture will create problems as to what they do with it. I take off style shells to use the car dock and use the other mods and the question is always "where to put them".

Is it your intention to have the mod be used while standing up or will it be used when it is resting on a surface, like a table or your lap? I would hate for the mod to come off from typing too hard but the magnets are really strong and that is less of a problem than it might seem.

Your mod seems more traditional than the other keyboard mod in the challenge and if you are a finalist then I am sure motorola will help you with your design as they have already built a slide out keyboard with battery but it was internal use only. Moto Mod concept to product

For those who are ambitious, why not create a "sailfish mod" where you slap on a processor and have it run an app that launches sailfish and it can access many of the resources of the phone?

Anyhow, good luck and I can't wait to see your product and will probably buy it.

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

Regarding battery, there are 2 sides of direction:

- Not having additional battery at all, to keep the mod as thin as possible. (Won't be too thin, as certain depth is required to keep the keyboard comfortable.) And simplify structure.

- Adding additional battery, which will obviously chunkier. However, if the base (Mod) is chunky enough, the engineer can add 2 hinges on the sliding part and user will be able to lift the screen up. Similar design as HTC Touch Pro 2. I love this function, but with the top part a whole device, the base has to be heavy and thick to support. Which means... chunky overall... And may not be appeal to general public......

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

A lot talk was concering the camera hole when the slider is closed. Proposed solution is:

Make a hole on keyboard, which will make the mod looks ugly, and put unecessary pressure on right thumb and uncomfortable. Why having a keyboard which is uncomfortable for typing, rather than not having a mod at all?

Or making a portrait slider keyboard. Which is not the intention, I'm using a BB priv and the keyboard is awful. Plus if you want a vericle slider you can get a priv.

I personally won't mind opening slider to take pics. This is unfortunately the sacrifice to have comfort typing experience.

I am aware that Lenovo has build this before, however if it is a really good product why they did not release it? In fact there is even no pics. I highly doubt if they made it in a commercial level.

I'm partnering with some of the best designer/engineers in industry. Frankly speaking it's not an esy task, lot of moving parts that can easily go wrong. But the challenge makes success.

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

Thank you for your suggestion, and thanks for your thread on XDA. I'm not very active there, not having enough time managing different forums...

It's hard to put this as a perk - If it's cheap others will go for it, if it's expensive that doesn't make sense.

But I wouldn't mind doing a few laser engraved special editions for the members that been always supportive.

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

Please reconsider the "useless" keys decision. There are lot of people with non-latin layout needs.
Also, "+1" to the additional Ctrl on the right mention/request.

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

I don't work for Motorola but I went to the hackathons and met a lot of their engineers and I would guess the reason they didn't release a lot of their in-house products is to allow others to build and release them. If they build all the mods it would be like Apple building all the apps in the app store; it would not foster 3rd party involvement.

Also, there is no reason why someone else couldn't make a qwerty slider which does not obscure the camera, or a portrait slider, or a slider like the Nokia E70, or a slider with IR blaster.

I am glad you are building the mod the way you think it should be built. That is the beauty of their open platform. I can't wait for you to launch. Good luck.

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

Thank you! The plan was to have non-latin layout follow the EN keyboard. And again if EN is successful...

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

To be honest, I wouldn't consider buying one unless it was well balanced, so the option above is the only option for me. I'll be rooting for you either way though of course.

TOHKBD for me was fun for a while but as I said before I didn't use it all the time because the keys were much too hard to press and didn't travel very far, and the balance was off.

Both of those things could be solved by having a thicker/heavier base. A nice slider hinge would be amazing too. Don't underestimate how much the feel and balance of the device will affect the user experience (and sales beyond the first batch).

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

If you ask this community, i expect thickness of the device not to be the show stopper.
Just look at the pyra or pd pocket.
Battery life however is at least my concern.
Adding a Kbd to the device will make me use it more often than the manufacturer calculated "get through the day" with one battery load activity pattern.
Any additional 1000-2000mAH would be greatly appreciated to not become a wall or powerbank hugger.

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

I have absolutely no idea what you mean by this?

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

I hope it is ok if i forward the campaign update chen sent out some minutes ago.

- Info on the sliding part
- Colors to choose from
- Ambitious lauchdate 3rd of March
- Plan is to deliver as early as June/July

Wow is left to say.

EDIT, as commented below, here is the original Twitter Channel with animated slider part for possible 45° awesomeness!

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

Thank you! Apart from the animation not moving it's all what I want to share here as well! For the animation please refer to Twitter @livermoriumltd

And thank you Mosen again. The amount of work is tough but I am and will do the best. :)

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

You have my full support.
Last humble advice from captain obvious, if you want to do one thing right that everybody in your field ended up doing *suboptimal*:
Please give weekly (or at least reliably regular) campaign updates.
Saturday/Sunday night is a good time so everybody can share the hell out of it during the week.

No matter how tiny you think the topics or advancements are, telling your supporters which 3 key points made up your last week are crucial part of your one man shows PR & Marketing imho.

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

Had a tough decision today that the extra battery will be removed.

To ensure keyboard comfortness, there is only two ways adding a secondary battery:

- Adding an extra layer as a battery, which will add 4mm thickness to overall. (And will make overall thickness reaches 20mm
- Adding small batteries on the area between edge of keyboard to the edge of device, which means very small capacity and reduce keyboard area, not worth.

After overall consideration "for now" battery will be removed.

Update: I would rather not mention any battery at this stage until real feel after prototyping!

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

Opinions differ but as far as I am concerned, 20mm vs 16mm - not much difference. The extra battery capacity and most importantly the extra weight at the bottom part would more than compensate for the additional 4mm.

The main reason I ended up parting with my TOHKBD2 was that the overall assembly was poorly balanced. Way too top heavy, with a very light and thin keyboard and a heavy main body with the screen above it. You are heading in exactly the same direction.

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

The problem of TOHKBD is not only thin, but also keyboard depth.

On the current design keyboard part is already 6-7mm. It not that thin.

With the keyboard as "add-on", it's always the problem that top is too heavy. Plus considering the connectors, it will probably be between 21-22 mm, will it scare a lot people off?

A quick fix will be doing both versions. It's all depending on the prototyping, which will happen after Moto deliver some key connector parts...

Edit: I will have more research with design team! Pichlo's point actually makes sense, people adding keyboard won't care too much on thickness. Let's wait to see the feeling of prototype. This will be decided later! (I tend to keep battery myself)

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

Very nice and professional looking! Are there ports of Sailfish for Moto Z? Also, has a price been announced? Thanks!

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

The battery option will be on hold now until prototyping is done. I won't mention on IGG campaign at this stage...

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

I am very interested in a keyboard for fast typing. Did you investigate about the aspects that lead to fast typing speed? I noticed that tactile feedback and pressure should be fit together, also important is the space between the keys. The keys should be at least flat. On your pictures the keys in my opinion have too little space between each other and they are slightly curved in the wrong direction.

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

Just about to finish all draft the campaign work. I'm excited.

I hope the super early bird price won't disappoint you, again this is a commercial product and certified. This is really the lowest I can make at this point.

We have improved some engineering work for the battery, now it is only 3mm thinker than the non-battery. And I hope device can be chunky enough that user feel solid in hand. (Well I hope at least pichlo do)

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

Remember this is a 5.5 inch... The keys are very big compared with old sliders.

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

Nice!

Will there be a battery version available on the campaign?

Re: [Brainstorm][Maybe the real one?] Maemo Community Device
 

I guess you missed my request for mm specification some pages back ;)
Or did i miss your answer?

It would be possible to do a pdf that prints out in real life size and could be cut to a mockup so people who have concernes with sizes can have a little foretaste.