Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Ah, so you're back pedaling on Android now? I haven't forgotten what you've said about it in the past, it clearly demonstrated you have absolutely no clue what it takes to make a successful smartphone OS.

With Windows Phone NOKIA can only differentiate through hardware, hence the focus on camera tech.

Try punching this in your calculator:
6.1 x 191
then:
7.4 x 157
Which produced the greater result?


Even if results were just as bad as they are now (and that would take even greater incompetence than Elop has delivered because NOKIA did actually have viable platforms) at least NOKIA would still be an independant company in control of its own destiny.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

ROTFL This thread is epic I am sure Elop loves it.

I have Lumiaman on my ignore list but see his quites STILL he convinced WP was right choice :cool:

http://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-stock-2013-7

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Nokia basicly gave up the low end, A.K.A the only segment were they were competive, with the Meltemi cancellation.

Of all the Elop stupidity it's both the dumbest and the least appreciated one. The 400 - 500 people being sacked from the mobile-phones (non-smartphone) unit is just the beginning. S40/Asha/What The ****ing Ever it's called this week or before next month is soon Android's road kill. Nokia just getting rid of the people it won't be needing, now that it won't be competing in the low-end anymore.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Meltemi? you must be joking. android would have wiped it so fast

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

There is a simple answer to your reliance on the past: that is why you will not be a CEO. Symbian and Meego apologizers is why NOKIA was in trouble...instead of jumping on the right platform in 2007 when iphone was unveiled, they ridiculed it, didnt believe it and sat on their assssees. Radical surgery was needed and Elop is delivering. Stock higher today than yesterday.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Nokia's bed buddy kickin' a*s!

Attachment 32748

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Not with the coders they had. Not with the culture they had. But they saw problems and responded better than BBRY. BBRY waited too long to shed the old and will likely drop out of the race for third ecosystem.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

BlackBerry's ASP is over $300 (for the BB10 devices it's over $400). It's time to get your calculator out again.

I'm sure they could sell much greater volumes of BB10 devices if they started churning them out at EUR 157. They may yet decide to do that if their plan of being a high end, high margin manufacturer fails to pay dividends.

BlackBerry own their own ecosystem so at least they have other ways of making money from their customers if they are forced into a higher volume at lower cost scenario.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

A year old, but it seems the trend has only continued and the same points stand...

The Windows Phone Predictions that IDC, Gartner and Pyramid Research Probably Hope You’ve Forgotten
http://www.globalnerdy.com/2012/05/0...uve-forgotten/

IDC’s Prediction: Almost 6% Market Share in 2011, 21% by 2015
Attachment 32772

Gartner’s Prediction: Almost 6% in 2011, 11% in 2012, 20% by 2015
Attachment 32773

And where are we now?
Let’s now take a look at the latest comScore report, published on May 1st, 2012:
Attachment 32774

The best quote of the article:
"Simply put, it means the predictions are dead wrong — and in Pyramid Research’s case, delusional — and you’d best run away from this platform as quickly as your feet will take you. Unless there’s some massive change in Microsoft’s strategy — maybe there’ll be a Windows 8 miracle, but I wouldn’t bet on it — do not look back, just high-tail it out of there. There’s a lot of interesting stuff happening in the mobile world, but it ain’t happening in Windows Phone land."

Read the whole article, Lumiaman, if you have the guts for it.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I think they may be right that WP will come back in some way 2015.

Reason is simple: Microsoft MUST do something desperate. They may very well go buy some big ARM SoC manufactor that would hurt Linux even more.

When I say "hurt linux even more" I mean the facts that Google has killed Linux embedded because manufactors does now only support Android GFX drivers and NOT core linux drivers :(

Thats why Microsoft and Google are the same *******s.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

The competition is fierce. Everyone is now iphone copycat. Android was faster to get there. WP late to the game. But they are all doing the same, working around a large ecosystems to attract consumers. WP has several components of ecosystem, gaming, PC, media. If WP is having trouble with all the marketing, the little guys like Jolla and company have little chance. Only a revolutionary new product could launch someone above their current ranking and I don't see it from little guys. Everyone is still iphone copycat.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Why are you guys still feeding the troll on fruit payroll? Oh, right. Cause it's the only way to keep the thread alive?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

When I see the graphs Danramos linked today, I can't help but shake my head at all the fanboys attacking Tomi Ahonen. He's the only one even close to predicting the current scenario.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Watching Nokia is as mind blowing as watching Jean van de Velde lose The Open. How do you go from the n800 FOSS friendly masterpiece to these POS WP Lumias, and all the while letting Samsung have success with Galaxy Notes.

Nokia: From leader to lost-in-the-desert at the speed of light

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Hey, hey, hey... you leave the NOTES alone.

Make fun of the iPhones, HTCs, and Samsung Galaxy Cheaps.

Seriously the thing that I watched for openSUSE (revolutionary to dud), happened to The Pandora (revolutionary to vaporware), happened to the N900 (revolutionary to obsolete), happened to The True Successor N9 (n950 recycled to n9, revolutionary to dud), happened to Nokia (revolutionary to dud), happened to the Maemo-Devs (Nokia to Jolla, now to obsoletism).

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MzAzWDM0Mg...szg~~60_12.JPG

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

You would almost think they were using Apple Maps! Does that make Nokia's mapping software just as bad, then?? Hey wait--that reminds me: NOKIA HAS MAPPING SOFTWARE. Holy crap! Nokia's so irrelevant that everyone's even forgotten that they COULD pull themselves out of the deep, dark hole they're in by selling services to MANY platforms (they COULD have made their software for Android, iOS, Blackberry, Windows Phone and everyone else) but it doesn't look like they're interested in doing ANYTHING that might actually help themselves if it makes Windows Phone look worse (unlike Google Maps, which actually looks great on both iOS and Android--and makes them have a footprint even in their competitor's platform).

Idiots.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Yup I agree, Tomi has been pretty much spot on with his predictions. People can't seem to want to accept the truth! Elop has made a mess of Nokia

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Nokia is still second biggest mobile phone vendor, but still not so great at smartphones.

http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS24239313

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Aren't they very rapidly aiming for the number three spot? Does anybody have a graph for that one?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

http://www.mobiada.com/wp-content/up...lack-Berry.jpg

Q2 is a good quarter to portray the companies success year-over-year.
After spending, literally billions, Lumia sales haven't received any success for Nokia by Q2 '12. This is one good piece of data to know.

That means the devices were either poor products, or overpriced, otherwise the market had other preferences. In Nokia's case it was all of the above.

Nokia didn't undercut its phone's prices to make purchase incentive (at least not until late '12). Nokia's devices weren't as advanced as the competition (no large screens, great battery life, killer features etc etc), at least not until the 1020. But more than that, the public wasn't warm to the Windows Phone ecosystem.

Let's fast forward a year, to Q2/13.
Nokia has doubled its shipments. Its greatly reduced its advertising/R&D costs.
It is beginning to bare the fruit of its labour. However the figures are still low, meaning anythings possible.... but if the figure continues at current pace, it leaves Nokia with 12M sales which is "sustainable" for a firm of this size. Something like 30M would be a more "healthy" state for an OEM of this calibre.

Now lets have a look at BB.
Starting with Q2/12 they are caught in their slouch from a "sustainable" 11M figure down to barely 8M. The lag to produce their new ecosystem (BBX) costed them 1.5 years... this impeded their business.
Regular business would bankrupt at such happenings but BB is large enough to survive it.
They did a tremendous job of keeping it alive, however the competition has been too strong.

Fast-forward a year, now BB ships 7M devices.
That hurts a company of this size. It would have to get smaller, otherwise its simply not sustainable. Here BB is hoping for another 6-12 months of 6-8M figure sales. But hoping they bare the fruit of their labour as Nokia is (only just) beginning to.
If such a thing happens, BB could find itself selling 12M devices a quarter, far from its previous victories... yet a sustainable figure.

At which point, Nokia and BB would be at a deadlock... yet far from their competition of Apple and Samsung. They would be competing with the likes of LG and SONY both selling between 8 - 10M units per quarter... whereas HTC is in grave danger as its constantly shipping lesser and lesser devices each quarter/year and is in the 5M figure.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I like your analysis. I think that Nokia was faster to shed their old skin, and their Lumias are growing, albeit slow due to very,very tough competition. I prefer WP to android as android is a total iOS rip off. Nonetheless, Nokia is in a tough position as innovation is limited to hardware and some software. That said, WP is not happy either as Nokia is pretty much their only manufacturer and can negotiate license prices on their own terms.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Kicking butt today!

Attachment 32862

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Let me ask: why so much hate?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

er this is a Maemo forum and Nokia turned its back on Maemo maybe?

Or did that escape you?

I highly doubt this forum will become a WP forum anytime before Pangaea Ultima arrives.

rgds

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Look no further than the mirror.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Join the movement

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

...be a follower.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Last quarter only NOKIA's volume increased, their sales in terms of money did not.

Increasing your volumes wont make your company more 'sustainable' if you don't make some money.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Maybe they are trying an Microsoft. Remember XBox1 was sold for underprice too...

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Great quotes I saw today.

"People are willing to pay a premium to avoid Windows!"

"Microsoft could have made less loss if they had just given Windows RT away!"

"Apple could have sold iPads at $15 and still made more than Microsoft"

rgds

ps. Android is not an iOS rip off, I never get tired of hearing LumiaFUD he's so funny.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

That's pretty much my take on it. I've said it before when someone asked me why I wanted to see Nokia fail: I want to see any manufacturer fail if it's consumer-hostile, prefers not to listen to its customers and does a terrible job of simply serving the us what we want to buy. Why should I want to see a company fail when it does a bad job or taking care of the customers? I didn't get into Nokia devices at the beginning because I had planned to hate them all along, you know. They did something right at one time, so I bought it--then they proceeded to execute one bad decision after another. If they ever come back around to doing something right, I'll reconsider--but in the meantime, they SHOULD do badly. If they want to treat customers badly and claim nothing personal--it's just business, then they need to understand that that's how customers will treat them when they turn around and give their money to another platform that treats them better. It's just business.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Hi Dan

Nokia could easily succeed if they opened their hardware specification to allow a true opensource implementation with no binary blobs.

At that point market forces would answer the question of whether the Windows platform had a future as there would then be ample opportunity for 3rd party software vendors to implement whatever they believe customers want.

Jolla, Maemo, Firefox ... YukBuntu whatever

Nokia could easily regain the top player spot almost over night.

Clearly following a closed source mentality will not play catchup to the more open Android, even Apple is struggling to stay relevant and it is only the weight of the Appstore ecosystem Apple built earlier that keeps them floating which is something the Windows platform just doesn't have.

Now Apple have broken the ease of use of the Appstore they are starting to lose headway.

Open will always win in the end.

rgds

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

This hasn't been true yet on mobile devices.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

http://source.android.com/

Android has roughly 50% market share of all smartphones worldwide on all charts I can find, more if you count tablets and is gaining ground on ALL competitors.

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=android+worldwide+market+share

Fairly clear you must agree and this can only be as a direct result of its openness as a platform allowing such easy take up.

It looks pretty conclusive to me.

The only way to compete against this tide is to be "More Open" (tm) and since this is only break even in the opensource software arena Nokias only chance now is to be "More Open" (tm) in the hardware arena.

This much is bleedingly obvious to anyone with half a brain cell outside of Elop fans.

rgds

ps. Simply put Microsoft can't win, tactics like blocking 3rd party software with stuff like secure boot on PC's for instance etc only work if you are in the dominant position which in smartphones they are not and without a clear value proposition which they do not have they are just yesterdays news.

pps. Their adverts are also really really lame, I cringe everytime I see one. click click look silly click. ooo I can take photos with the brightness turned up ooo. oh dear.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

http://linux.slashdot.org/story/13/0...s-torvalds-won

Just saying

rgds

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Nearly 80% last quarter.

Although iPhone's sales grew year over year their marketshare was at its lowest since 2010. If Elop was in charge he'd undoubtedly advocate dropping the 'burning platform' (iOS) and partnering with the smallest, most insignificant player he could find (which is probably still Microsoft).

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Most people around here will start a frothing mad tirade against claiming that Android is fully open and is full-on Linux.

That argument has been raised here enough to the point I rarely denote Android as anything but Linux based, but not entirely open due to being beaten on the head from the GPL/Linux pundits around here.

Not saying I agree/disagree; I think the true definition of Android is that it's Linux based, but not full-blown Linux.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Or on desktop.
Or on server (the major providers use Linux, but their proprietary versions of it).
Or in national politics (communism?)

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

@GerbicK

Indeed not mentioning anything to do with full-on Linux.

I agree opensource does not only mean Linux or a Linux distribution.

Although last time I checked which was admittedly a year or so back

http://kernelnewbies.org/Linux_3.3

Android Kernel code was being merged back into the Linux Kernel tree around version 3.3 so it could easily be a true Linux by now.

The Android component on top is not a distribution but a single opensource stack so you are correct.

"Android is an open-source software stack"

http://source.android.com/source/index.html

@Kangal

Indeed more devices run Linux today than any other OS.

Don't forget other categories for instance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Op...rcomputers.svg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_s...rating_systems

Servers: 64% unix variants including Linux - W3Techs
Mobile: 74% Android, ie Linux - Gartner

the ability to customise Linux or more to the point opensource is exactly why proprietary stacks are falling behind, they have no compelling argument and should just be seen as legacy dinosaurs.

rgds

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

@Switch-hitter

Indeed.

It is even worse for Windows OSes than I thought.

Soon it will reach a tipping point and Windows OSes will just fizzle away.

Every Chrome book esk device is one more stab in the flesh of Windows.

Death by 1.8billion cuts has to hurt.

rgds