maemo.org - Talk - First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

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- - First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0 (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=95923)

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

Quote:

Originally Posted by Copernicus (Post 1482685)

I'd love to share your point of view, but in the absence of viable fully open mobile operating systems, I'm not finding a lot of valid reasons to go open-source either. :(

... the default _is_ open source in this day and age. Reasons should be provided for the exceptions to the default.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Copernicus (Post 1482685)

Just where is the community support for community-based software? Why is there so much interest in trying to make commercial software open, when open-source alternatives already exist? And, if Jolla did fully open-source Sailfish, would anybody actually work on it, or would they just go to the next piece of commercially-built software and demand that it become open as well?

Why is community support required? I'm pestering a company for a reason!

Allowing community support is nice, and probably something that would distinguish a "ideal" Jolla from Android, since Android's "throw it over the wall" model doesn't really encourage community. Functioning community support ultimately provides the highest level of customizability for the final user, and with almost zero developer or regulation or documentation or ... cost to the parent company.

But I don't think that any company should be _expecting_ people to work for free.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Copernicus (Post 1482683)

Only the organizations that have adopted closed-source practices have devices viable for every-day work.

Android is, to my annoyance, actually more "open source" than Sailfish (albeit not free software). For me, this discussion has been obsolete for at least a decade, and 'closed source' has lost.

(Sadly, free software didn't exactly win)

Even Windows CE was practically open source.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Copernicus (Post 1482683)

Cool! So, I've gotta ask, just where are the fully open Mer-based devices? Jolla doesn't have a patent on Mer or anything; just what is stopping another company from building one?

I'd buy one! I'm exactly asking the same. I thought Jolla would be this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Copernicus (Post 1482683)

I guess I'm saying, can you really convince Jolla that full open-source is going to help their business? Cause right now, I'm just not seeing it...

To put it simply: because if they fail at it, they'll alienate a portion of their early user base (which includes me).

And as I said, the default is free software. Unless you can really show how closed source is going to help their business, then the default should be free software.

And where are all those early 'Nokla' N800 clones?

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

Quote:

Originally Posted by JulmaHerra (Post 1482686)

Good luck. :)

Heh, thanks!

Quote:

So, Sailfish secure is definitely needed, but it cannot replace the consumer point of view. And it will take some time to implement, test, certificate etc...

I think you're right that they can't completely lose sight of the consumer market, but this would fit in quite nicely with something they are already doing quite well, in a way that competitors aren't: shipping security updates regularly. Surely that's important for businesses, even if most consumers don't really care?

Quote:

AFAIK this is not possible, as nemo doesn't have root-privileges and it cannot use those privileges without authentication

You can install packages as nemo using pkcon, but not zypper:

Code:

nemo ~ $ zypper info emacs

Loading repository data...

Reading installed packages...





Information for package emacs:



Repository: openrepos-NielDK

Name: emacs

Version: 24.3-0

Arch: armv7hl

Vendor:

Installed: No

Status: not installed

Installed Size: 92.5 MiB

Summary: The libraries needed to run the GNU Emacs text editor

Description:

Emacs is a powerful, customizable, self-documenting, modeless text

editor.

Emacs contains special code editing features, a scripting language

(elisp), and the capability to read mail, news and more without leaving

the editor.



nemo ~ $ zypper in emacs

Root privileges are required for installing or uninstalling packages.



nemo ~ $ pkcon install emacs

Installing

Waiting in queue

Starting

Refreshing software list

Querying

Resolving dependencies

Installing packages

Installing

Waiting in queue

Waiting for authentication

Waiting in queue

Starting

Refreshing software list

Querying

Resolving dependencies

Installing packages

Downloading packages

Installing packages

Surprised me!

Quote:

no regular user is willing to enter password every single time they want to install or update apps.

Something simple like a pattern lock would be fine, surely? I would probably make updates for already installed apps automatic (like unattended upgrades), but installing and removing sotware require authentication.

Quote:

I don't think there is any elegant way of doing things with SELinux.... it's very effective way though, when done correctly. :)

It's something I've been meaning to research for a while now, I must confess I only have a vague idea of what it does and how it works.

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stskeeps (Post 1482661)

Stay tuned.

to long-wave? i think they are going to turn that off in the next year or two.

don't get me wrong, i've been here since the n900, but we need to reach this nirvana soon....

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

Implement OneDrive and Dropbox backup/restore sync plugins

https://bugs.merproject.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1323

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feathers McGraw (Post 1482689)

Surprised me!

It is actually not that much of a security issue and for example Fedora does the same thing. You can use the packagekit (pkcon) interface to only install signed packages from trusted repos - not just any arbitrary package from an URL or local file.

So as long as your repos are properly signed and are not compromised this should be fairly safe, with only possible attacks being some sort of ddos (which can be done much easier with user-level capabilities) or exploiting vulnerabilities in signed packages until they are fixed (packaging scripts executing untrusted input at root, etc.).

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterMaster (Post 1482696)

Implement OneDrive and Dropbox backup/restore sync plugins

https://bugs.merproject.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1323

While I don't care about OneDrive or Dropbox myself, this seems like a move in a good direction and opens the way for adding more backends, such as for OwnCloud or Seafile in the future.

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stskeeps (Post 1482661)

Stay tuned.

https://twitter.com/stskeeps/status/644081075128532993

Quote:

GPL compliance + other open source parts of #sailfishos 1.1.7.28 + #jolla device hardware adaptation: http://releases.sailfishos.org/sourc....28-oss.tar.bz

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

Quote:

Originally Posted by minimos (Post 1482701)

https://twitter.com/stskeeps/status/644081075128532993

Is it updated to current version source code we had already or more thing were open?

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

what does it mean for unexpert user like me? what parts they have opened?

Re: First thoughts about the (pre) Sailfish OS 2.0

I'm always reading "open-source this, open-source that"... but would it really bring a benefit?

Most people are consumers, not contributing to the open-source stuff they use at all. The people who develop and contribute to open-source projects are very rare.
I think this thread resembles this as well. There are only a few developers among many consumers.
So we also don't see much progress with Nemo or the open-source parts of Sailfish, except for the work Jolla is doing.

The successful open-source projects are successful, because people employed by companies do paid work on them in the interest of their company. The Linux kernel is a prominent example of how a range of companies are working together on a common
operating system.
And if you look at Mer or Nemo, you'd notice that most contributions are coming from people paid by Jolla. And with open-sourcing the few remaining closed parts of Sailfish, this would not change.

The community of developers is a utopia. The community consists of consumers with a few active developers among them. Most open-source projects are one-man-shows that disappear once the developer loses interest. Almost all bigger projects are actually paid work.

Why don't we see open devices running Mer? I think the best person to answer this question would be Aaron Seigo of the Vivaldi project. It simply is not possible to find
acceptable mobile hardware running on open drivers. The Jolla devices are as open as
it can get. And they are running Mer on top of a closed-source Android hardware adaptation layer dictated by the manufacturer.

On the other end is the Silica UI that was promised to be opened (stay tuned as stskeeps said...), but actually is almost entirely BSD-licensed and open already.
Why didn't anyone reimplement the small closed-source part of Silica to make the
BSD-licensed open components run on top of Nemo, so that you have the full
Silica experience on Nemo? After more than two years of having the BSD-licensed Silica code out in the open, I really wonder. Maybe because the community of developers is a utopia...

IMHO it is NOT Jolla who is to blame for the lack of contributions to Sailfish.