Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Because Linux makes hardware integration easier. NOKIA were also planning an orderly migration from Symbian to Linux (MeeGo / Meltemi) using Qt as the bridge. Whose memory doesn't serve them well?


They did plan well even if they were tardy executing it. Pre-Elop NOKIA had an exciting future - MeeGo, Meltemi, QtQuick, Pyside, the best mapping software available, a rapidly expanding app store, strong brand recognition across the world, a strong market presence in China (now the world's biggest market) and China Mobile, the biggest carrier on the planet, were on the MeeGo working group. They were very close to getting all their ducks in a row, there was absolutely no need for panic reactions.

Announcing Symbian dead a full year before having anything to replace it with and then exclusively adopting a weak, unpopular, fugly OS were Elop's contributions and NOKIA's collapse is the inevitable consequence of it.

Plus of course he killed MeeGo (after calling it 'the next disruption'), he killed Meltemi thus destroying NOKIA's chances with 'the next billion', his catalogue of incompetence goes on and on and on...

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

If that's the case, the thing that qualifies as a "desktop" today seems to be a device that is easy for consumption (HD screen, loud speakers etc), is portable (under 18in?), and can last through a couple hours without continuous power source (battery dude)

Hence, the closest thing to a "modern desktop" would be a Win8 PRO tablet that can dock for a keyboard and power. Top example would be the Lenovo Helix. It has "Desktop Apps" as well as the basis to do future desktop "stuff".

WinRT is a no-go. I don't mean to knock it down, Microsoft has really been clearing bugs.

#rant
But the SurfaceRT wa- IS a bad product. That kickstand is a waste of space and weight. Corners are too sharp or is it the odd shape/size. Screen is lacking. Tegra3 seriously? They should've gone with at least a Dualcore S4 (same performance, better efficiency)... or a Exynos 5xxx (A15 powaa). MS has tripped itself again #rant

This results in a glacial market share of RT, means its not producing interest for developers and "future desktop stuff" at a competitive level.
It basically means MS wasted its effort, money, time to fix up RT the last year. It could've improved it at a slower pace, and it wouldn't affected its "ecosystem health". Currently, its possible for it to even die as a platform.

If RT does get traction.
If more powerful ARM SoC's are supported.
If MS squishes more bugs, adds missing features.
...then Yes, a WinRT hybrid can displace a Win8PRO hybrid as a desktop.

Then the definition of "dektop" can change.
We might have true-dektop grade software in a more device that's more portable, lasts longer and performs much faster.

Until then the iPad is a glorified consumption device.
Android needs another generation leap (or two!) to even begin to cater.
And a gaping hole in for a Linux ecosystem for "todays desktop" is ever increasing.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

@Switch

Indeed.

@Lumiaman

"If Symbian was so great, how come NO ONE licenses it now"

Really????

Are you seriously trying to suggest that you don't understand why a company whose CEO announces the END OF LIFE of a product to everyone and then stops selling it ... er DUH! .... isn't selling it to anyone?

And in that vacuum while Nokia had NO product to ship, you are surprised that end users would choose available feature rich products like Android and IOS rather than wait for a Microsoft product from two companies that have a proven track record of not supporting their products?

Words like "revisionist" and "delusional" spring to mind ....

@Kangal

RT is even acknowledged in Microsofts own SEC report that it is DOA (Dead on Arrival)

http://www.informationweek.com/globa...flop/240159201

Where have you been the last 3 months?

rgds

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Actually, there were few options that the board considered when looking for the CEO candidate. The main contestants in the game were mr. Elop who came from outside the company and mr. Vanjoki who came from inside.

Both candidates outlined their plans for future of the company;

Mr. Vanjoki had the following agenda:

• Let's develop future based on our existing strengths, use the migration path from Symbian to Meego. Current product lineup is falling but we have time to fix this if we pull together.
• On short term this will create additional costs but on long term the cost-effectiveness of being in control of our OS will even out

Mr. Elop had the following agenda:

• Let's outsource our OS development to a partner company, this will immediately make 3500 SW developers redundant and enable huge savings now
• I've got good relations to MS, I can negotiate a contract that gives us very good terms on OS licencing

Now imagine that the board members are NOT competent on the engineering aspects, they have NO background on SW development. Their main competence is on finance and so when presented with these options the choice is clear --> go for the option which seems lucrative and produces immediate gratification.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Nobody has even bothered to mention that an important part of 'desktop' systems is the architecture. Desktop systems tend to be able to run on far more horsepower with far more addressable memory space and they tend to be expandable and based on the idea of components (i.e. the screen isn't part of the system, the hard drive is replaceable, memory is often upgradeable and there are video card slots and expansion card slots and a plethora of ports). A "desktop" and "laptop" computer is still considered the workhorse of micro computing whereas cellphones and tablets are mainly based around portable communications and lightweight computing tasks (i.e. mobile apps versus full blown desktop applications, USB for peripherals if you're lucky, etc).

No, again... NOBODY is going to mistake cellphones and tablets for desktops. It's unlikely they'll ever be mistaken for desktops--maybe netbooks/notepads/laptops, but certainly not desktops so long as they're designed around mobility and lack the architecture that desktop have.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I guess you are being a revisionist and check the dates. Major companies announced abandoning Symbian prior to Elop arrival. Just google it, I know you can do it. Samsung did it in 2009. Stop acting stupid.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

The board members are usually highly accomplished individuals who probably carried iPhones and androids in their pockets and wanted Nokia to abandon dinosaur platforms. They chose correctly. The only thing that is growing are lumias

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Have you ever heard someone telling you to focus on one thing well and do it well? Pre-Elop Nokia was unfocused with too many OSs, and to little attention to good software solutions. That is what drove iOS and android ahead. Complete focus on one OS and good execution. Nokia had interesting plans with too many OSs and little focus. That soekked disaster in inferior products such as n9, n8 and n900. The concepts were good, but the OS were just not well baked. Elop had to restructure them into a completely different company.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

@Lumiaman

Nokia announced in SEPT 2010 the appointment of an ex MICROSOFT director to CEO.

Instead of the internal one who supported QT, Symbian, Maemo/Meego etc.

DEC 2010 mainstream companies deploying Symbian announce they will stop supporting it!

Hmmm .... coincidence?

Are you really saying that the strategists from some of the best tech industries on the planet wouldn't be able to spot what was coming next?

They didn't jump ship because Symbian was dying, they jumped ship becuase the 8th largest shareholder from Microsoft was appointed to Nokia CEO and it was obvious he was always going to choose the Windows platform.

rgds

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Ecxactly. When the decision on next CEO was made, technical merit was not considered, only short-term financial viability. Whether the decision was correct or not can be debated.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Samsung made announcements to abandon Symbian almost a year before Elop was appointed, November in 2009, and you can bet that this announcement was in planning for several years, i.e., ever since iphone and android came out. If you think that somehow the search for new CEO at NOKIA made them make this decision, you are likely very wrong.

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/bits/20...martphone-os/1


They knew it was a dying platform and clearly did the best by ditching the dinosaur early and looking for alternatives. Samsung ultimately jumped on Android bandwagon, while Symbian apologists within NOKIA made them hold on for much longer......unfortunately for NOKIA

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

@Lumiaman

True to type you are wrong again.

That was a review of Samsung adding Linux to their product line.

The reviewer surmises Samsung will remove Symbian and Windows but neither of these forward looking statements was an announcement of intent by Samsung until DEC 2010

clutching at straws?

http://web.archive.org/web/201010020...essageId=99534

You will note this announcement did not exist prior to Oct 2nd 2010

I guess that makes you the revisionist after all ... no surprise there then.

rgds

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Did you read the whole article? No wonder you misinform.

"The move will see Samsung abandon Nokia's Symbian platform entirely, and reduce its use of Microsoft's Windows Mobile platform to just 20 percent of its handsets by 2012."

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

@Lumiaman

A reviewer who doesn't work for Samsung theorises

"The move will see Samsung"

He is guessing and surmising on one possible outcome.

No facts to see here!

Move along.

No wonder you are clueless.

rgds

ps. Here is Samsungs actual announcement

http://web.archive.org/web/201010020...essageId=99534

I will leave reading the date to you unless you need some help with that.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Not guessing, here is another, presumably from the VP himself as quoted in 2009, 2009, 2009, that symbian is being phased out:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/11/s...ays-senior-vp/

Move along

No wonder you are clueless

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Here is another in:


Samsung to drop Symbian support, keep WinMo
Written by Andre Yoskowitz @ 11 Nov 2009 14:19 User comments (3)

Samsung to drop Symbian support, keep WinMo Last week we reported the rumor of Samsung preparing to phase out the Windows Mobile smartphone OS while at the same time increasing usage of Android and Bada.
Company senior vice president Don Joo Lee is saying however, that WinMo is here to stay, and it is instead the Symbian OS which will be completely dropped, mainly to the advantage of Bada, Samsung's new proprietary OS.

The change will take place starting in 2010, with the Omnia HD being the last phone to incorporate the OS.

Lee says he expects total Samsung shipments to increase to 220 million units in 2010 and the company will "continue to strengthen its deployment in HD displays, high performance CPUs and LTE technology for handsets."

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I hope one day it will come to light why the board allowed Microsoft's Trojan horse through the gate and why they continue to support a strategy that has so comprehensively failed.


Samsung have numerous OSs and they continue to trounce NOKIA. Samsung are the yardstick by which Elop's performance should be measured.

Elop has been an unmitigated disaster for NOKIA but I'm sure he doesn't give a flying firkin about that because everything he does he does for Microsoft.

How the heck can NOKIA produce such nice hardware and yet have such a low gross margin, low ASP and low volume? It's obviously because of the OS, not even the almighty Samsung can make that stinker sell. You could put any alternative OS on the Lumias - MeeGo, Sailfish, Symbian, Android, WebOS and they'd sell better than they do now.

Now is the time NOKIA need to focus on a 'good software solution', Windows Phone clearly isn't it. They need to dump that fugly OS and the toxic Microsoft partnership and give the world a reason to buy NOKIA again.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

@Lumiaman

All these stem from this unsubstantiated editorial

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20091111PD205.html

Where Don Joo Lee is reported to have said "MAY" not roll out anymore Symbian phones.

Funny how the internet rumor mills get read as facts by revisionists to suit their own ends.

rgds

Samsungs actual announcement (and therefore actual decision) is a matter of record and I provided that to you.

Captured clearly on the wayback machine.

Even you cannot try to claim they went back in time and published it earlier.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

The rumor was correct, and these decisions are made well ahead of time. You should know that if you ever manufactured anything in your life. You plan years ahead what you will produce. So the stories that were written by multiple outlets in nov of 2009, were verified when Samsung officially stopped the production.

But why do i have to explain this all to you. Are you this backward in your analysis?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Having mulitple copies of chinese whispers from a single unsubstantiated editorial does not make it multiple facts no matter how much you would like to believe otherwise.

It is no facts at all, companies always voice ideas that may be forward looking, such as rolling out Bada or WinMo however only when an announcement is formally stated does this make it usually cut in stone.

The announcement WAS Oct 2nd 2010, nothing you say or point to can change that FACT.

Why do I have to explain this to you, can you not read the evidence?

rgds

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Move along.

No wonder you are clueless.

Why do I have to explain this to you, can you not read the evidence?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

@Lumiaman

Aping is the sincerest form of flattery

Cheers

rgds

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Move along.

sorry I shattered your dream full of Elop hate.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

True to type wrong again.

I have no hate for Elop, he doesn't warrant that much attention.

You however are disruptive to an excellent community and should be ejected.

rgds

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I love the community too. I just dont like misinformation and blind conclusions.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

so why do you keep spouting it then?

rgds

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Oohhhw burn!!

No he di-ent, no he de-ent... oh yes he did !

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

oh yes he did!

:-)

rgds

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Lumiatard and Elop: Dumb and Dumberer

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

You mean telling that the world knew in 2009 that Samsung will abandon Symbian, and its been written all over the net, and you are still denying it....Haaaahahahahahahahah.............

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Look who showed up, the little craperl.....getting smarter and smarter....

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

@Dave9999

Saw the movie again two days ago....that is one funny movie man....

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Indeed it is. doesn't matter if you are 5 or 65. Is so great even if its old. A great movie is a great move!

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

hmmm...


Elop is an ashole

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Dave999, I always wanted to tell you one thing: YOU DA MAN!

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

@Lumiaman

Please refer back to post #1661

rgds

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

NOKIA took control of Symbian in 2008, it wasn't too surprising to see their competitors start weighing up alternatives. I would have too in their shoes.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

@Switch

Exactly, any sane company explores multiple strategies if they want to succeed.

Ah, I forgot the elephant in the room, Nokia doesn't ... hmmm hows that working out for them?

Looks like Samsung was hedging their strategy right up until Nokia chose Elop, then they announced their exit plan from Symbian.

rgds