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maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)
-   Jolla1 & TOH (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=56)
-   -   Jolla User Experience Thread (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91875)

Dave999 2013-12-13 17:34
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalim (Post 1396100)
Today I've received 2x Jolla device (Czech Republic). I haven't expected anything special but to my surprise I am touched to tears how great these devices are. I almost feel they have their own soul. I'm an mobile device addict, currently I have several androids (samsung note3, sony z ultra, ...) but this is really something special. Am I alone with such a feeling?
Yes, Because mine is in shipping state and I'm using Gnote lll as main device AWS. Still don't believe jPhone can kick it to the dust. But your comment sounds nice, and you bought twice, witch to me is like rollin the dice.

kinggo 2013-12-13 17:36
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by herpderp (Post 1396037)
This is not a satisfying answer to those users who are in those 1% (I would argue that their percentage is substantially higher than that).
No, it's not. But I would not argue about that 1%. On paper, maybe there is more than 1% who actually cares but in reality 99% of them uses some kind of cloud service. And I don't take seriously concerns about privacy and security from people who willingly use some kind of closed corporate protocolos.

Fuzzillogic 2013-12-13 17:37
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philippe (Post 1395984)
Again. Atm we do not support mass storage. Only MTP. This is due to a huge number of technical issues with mass storage that are not easy to deal with/solve. Even android dropped mass-storage in favour of MTP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philippe (Post 1396085)
Go back and read the whole reply please. All the reasons why were mentioned before, "everyone is moving away from it". Also mass-storage on N900 and N9 had a number of unresolved issues you might not have seen/or not always seen. Which is also a reason why it is not there now.
It seems to me that by "everyone" you mean Android, Apple and Microsoft. And those "everyone" doing/not doing something is not an argument that it is the right thing to do/not do: those companies most likely do stuff to gain or keep control over the devices, which usually is not in the interest of the user. Why do you think I didn't buy any of their devices, but a Jolla instead?

So, that leaves the "it's hard to do" as argument. It can't be harder than unmounting the sd card when the user removes it (I sure hope you don't need to turn off the devices to do so?!).

benny1967 2013-12-13 17:42
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philippe (Post 1396085)
Go back and read the whole reply please. All the reasons why were mentioned before, "everyone is moving away from it". Also mass-storage on N900 and N9 had a number of unresolved issues you might not have seen/or not always seen. Which is also a reason why it is not there now.
Mhm... I'm probably not reaching you because I was strongly arguing in favor of mass storage before.

My question is not so much "Why didn't you implement mass storage on the Jolla Phone?" That would be a silly question. Your phone, your cost, your priorities.

I understand you mention quite a few general technical difficulties, including problems that come from wrong handling. I also understand, though, that those difficulties never got in the way of implementing mass storage on any previous device based on Maemo/MeeGo back in the days. So I assume these difficulties were resolved in a way that made mass storage a good solution for the consumer - in spite of unresolved issues that you know of, but that never seemed to have troubled people.

My question, therefore, is: "What is the main difference between N900/N9 and earlier Nokia tablets and the Jolla Phone that made mass storage a viable option then, but kept you from implementing it now?" - I only want to understand why existing solutions to whatever problems that come with mass storage don't work any more. (At least that's the impression I get: That its too complex at this stage of the project to implement mass storage when MTP can cover at least some of its use cases.)

I'm sorry but even after re-reading all your posts, I didn't find the answer.

minimos 2013-12-13 17:45
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by drcouzelis (Post 1396032)
That's what I was thinking. What is the filesystem layout in Sailfish?
It's mainly btrfs:
Code:
[nemo@localhost /]$ cat /etc/fstab
UUID=0f8a2480-53ed-5ff6-ba64-b81df3630387  /  btrfs  defaults,autodefrag,noatime 0 0
UUID=0f8a2480-53ed-5ff6-ba64-b81df3630387  /home  btrfs  subvol=@home 0 0
UUID=0f8a2480-53ed-5ff6-ba64-b81df3630387  /swap  btrfs  subvol=@swap 0 0
devpts    /dev/pts  devpts  gid=5,mode=620  0 0
tmpfs      /dev/shm  tmpfs  defaults        0 0
proc      /proc    proc    defaults        0 0
sysfs      /sys      sysfs  defaults        0 0
but there are some 'auxiliary' fs formatted in ext4 or vfat:

Code:
[nemo@localhost /]$ mount
...
 /dev/mmcblk0p19 on /drm type ext4 (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,data=ordered)
/dev/mmcblk0p18 on /firmware type vfat (ro,relatime,uid=1000,gid=1000,fmask=0337,dmask=0227,codepage=cp437,iocharset=iso8859-1,shortname=lower,errors=remount-ro)
/dev/mmcblk0p25 on /persist type ext4 (ro,nosuid,nodev,relatime,data=ordered)
/dev/mmcblk0p9 on /var/systemlog type ext4 (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,data=ordered)
/dev/mmcblk0p28 on /home type btrfs (rw,relatime,thread_pool=4,ssd,noacl,space_cache,autodefrag)
/dev/mmcblk0p28 on /swap type btrfs (rw,relatime,thread_pool=4,ssd,noacl,space_cache,autodefrag)
...

gerbick 2013-12-13 17:50
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
I've seen FAT brought up a few times, but I wonder if Jolla is wise to avoid it since that's one of the Microsoft patents that they used against Android - though that might be finally coming to an end.

Just a random, unconfirmed thought.

benny1967 2013-12-13 17:57
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by minimos (Post 1396109)
/home btrfs
Thank you! ;)

Dave999 2013-12-13 18:12
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Anyone with a Iphone 5 or a galaxy note 3 that can compare browsers. How much slower is jolla browser?

Philippe 2013-12-13 18:18
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by benny1967 (Post 1396106)
My question, therefore, is: "What is the main difference between N900/N9 and earlier Nokia tablets and the Jolla Phone that made mass storage a viable option then, but kept you from implementing it now?" - I only want to understand why existing solutions to whatever problems that come with mass storage don't work any more. (At least that's the impression I get: That its too complex at this stage of the project to implement mass storage when MTP can cover at least some of its use cases.)

I'm sorry but even after re-reading all your posts, I didn't find the answer.
Well it seems you are not reading enough.

It needs a FAT partition (which was done on N900 and N9), which fragments storage on the device. Issues with file permissions and security, back-ups, restoring to factory settings etc... The current btrfs layout gives us huge benefits there that would not be possible if we needed to have some rogue FAT partition.
It needs to unmount/remount it every time mass-storage is enabled. This means every application that might need to handle data on that partition needs to be able to deal with it disappearing. That is a huge job.
Just try to take pictures with mass-storage enabled in N9, will just not work for example. Although that is a minor annoyance. It is an example of what can happen. More evil things happen also.
It also meant killing apps in the background to enable it, which could cause data loss. It also meant sometimes it could not be enabled depending on what applications are open. Not to mention data loss issues/crashes with applications that don't handle it, 3rd party application not knowing what to do when the fs disappears. Not to mention all the data loss issues that exist with mass-storage currently. You know the remove safely button in windows?

A number where never solved for the N900/N9 but it shipped nonetheless since there was not really a better alternative at the time.

And although MTP has its own set of issues it actually covers the same use case.

We might have some mass-storage exports in a later stage as I stated (like for the SD card) however we cannot guarantee file exchange functionality on the same level as with MTP.

But bitching about missing mass storage because Apple cannot keep breaking industry standards because it wants to push its own vendor lock in is not productive and is not going to get you anywhere. Don't shoot the messenger.

szopin 2013-12-13 18:28
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Not sure how someone can claim N900 had this sorted, search for read only file system in here, lots and lots of posts/threads

Miharin 2013-12-13 18:28
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Here goes nothing... Can anyone give any help installing this on OS X
https://github.com/phatina/simple-mtpfs

I can try to configure, but it gives me the error about libmtp not found. I installed libmtp through Macports. I have no idea how to install it otherwise. I'm not a programmer but I'll gladly throw commands at Terminal if I just get my Jolla to work on OS X.

benny1967 2013-12-13 18:32
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by att (Post 1396076)
Currently 47 apps.
I know this is a somewhat nonsensical calculation, nostalgic at best for those of us who come from the early Maemo days of the Nokia 770 and N8x0, but:

If the Jolla store has 47 applications now, even before the device goes on general sale, that's roughly 20% of what the 770 ever had during its lifetime and about 10% of what was ever available for the N800/N810.

(Of course, we're not even counting compatible applications from 3rd party Android stores here, some which seem to be really popular with Jolla users.)

Had somebody told me back then, I wouldn't have believed him. :)

benny1967 2013-12-13 18:43
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philippe (Post 1396115)
Well it seems you are not reading enough.
More than enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philippe (Post 1396115)
It needs a FAT partition (which was done on N900 and N9), ...
That was what I had asked before, when you answered "All the reasons why were mentioned before" instead of simply saying "Yes +10chars".

Minimos was kind enough to solve that for me meanwhile. Thanks anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philippe (Post 1396115)
But bitching about missing mass storage because Apple cannot keep breaking industry standards because it wants to push its own vendor lock in is not productive and is not going to get you anywhere. Don't shoot the messenger.
I'm "bitching" (thanks again) about mass storage because I'm on a Gnome desktop here and MTP hardly does anything for me. It either doesn't work at all or only accesses a restricted set of file types, which is about as useful as a file manager only showing filenames from J to Q.

I'm with you about Apple, but couldn't care less about if and how any phone works with Apple products.

Anyway, no further questions here, thank you.

thedead1440 2013-12-13 18:45
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miharin (Post 1396119)
Here goes nothing... Can anyone give any help installing this on OS X
https://github.com/phatina/simple-mtpfs

I can try to configure, but it gives me the error about libmtp not found. I installed libmtp through Macports. I have no idea how to install it otherwise. I'm not a programmer but I'll gladly throw commands at Terminal if I just get my Jolla to work on OS X.
Off-topic but when you are building something, -dev packages are usually required so I guess it's failing for you as you need to install libmtp-dev

ste-phan 2013-12-13 18:48
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by benny1967 (Post 1396050)
I only feel that "everyone's moving away" isn't a good explanation.)
Reminds me of the good old everyone moving away from Flash in favour of HTML5.

I trust Jolla has the mass storage mode on the features to complete list.

strongm 2013-12-13 18:51
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philippe (Post 1396115)
The current btrfs layout gives us huge benefits there that would not be possible if we needed to have some rogue FAT partition.
How does this affect the SD card, which JollaHQ is advising be formatted a FAT32 on Twitter?

Philippe 2013-12-13 18:54
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by benny1967 (Post 1396125)
I'm "bitching" (thanks again) about mass storage because I'm on a Gnome desktop here and MTP hardly does anything for me. It either doesn't work at all or only accesses a restricted set of file types, which is about as useful as a file manager only showing filenames from J to Q.

Anyway, no further questions here, thank you.
Hmm weird. Well I use cinnamon, and it works fine for me. Although sometimes I need to open the filemanager myself as it sometimes gets confused when several different programs try to access it. Like when I already have shotwell or gphoto open. Maybe something you could try? Sometimes with USB trying another port helps too.

sconf 2013-12-13 18:54
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDVsx (Post 1396068)
Is this related to username != email address ? If so, that setting was already added and hopefully will be release in next SW update.
Great, thanks, and I assume that is reason. I'm currently slightly confused about settings. I have
-email address I wish to use in outgoing email "from" and "reply-to" field
-username and pw to IMAP server (SSL)
-username and pw to SMTP server (SSL)
These are not anyway related to each other or server names/addresses. They work fine with several different devices.

Current Jolla email account dialog has
-server userames and passwords and addresses
-name at the top under "Email", changing with some way
-"Account information" field

I fail to understand what is "email address" in current dialog (not been able to send anything), but hopefully the update clears things.

Miharin 2013-12-13 19:03
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedead1440 (Post 1396128)
Off-topic but when you are building something, -dev packages are usually required so I guess it's failing for you as you need to install libmtp-dev
I got a bit more forward, I installed libmtp again through Homebrew, and this time I get this message with configure:

Quote:
checking for FUSE... no
configure: error: Package requirements (fuse >= 2.7.3) were not met:

No package 'fuse' found

Consider adjusting the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable if you
installed software in a non-standard prefix.

Alternatively, you may set the environment variables FUSE_CFLAGS
and FUSE_LIBS to avoid the need to call pkg-config.
Apparently this OSXFUSE is not high enough, as it's 2.6.2 so I'm so out of luck :( Or, configure cannot find the package and I don't know how to point it to the right place, can anyone give me directions?

If you guys can help me get this thing to work and successfully mount a Jolla to the desktop, that will greatly help all OS X users and we can stop "bitching" ;)

herpderp 2013-12-13 19:39
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kinggo (Post 1396102)
No, it's not. But I would not argue about that 1%. On paper, maybe there is more than 1% who actually cares but in reality 99% of them uses some kind of cloud service. And I don't take seriously concerns about privacy and security from people who willingly use some kind of closed corporate protocolos.
Yes, using a cloud service is the same as ignoring basic application security and letting all apps access everything. Nobody could use a cloud service, and then worry about one app reading another's data. I'm sorry, I'll go back to my cave now.

I see security is not taken seriously around here. For shame.

szopin 2013-12-13 19:43
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by herpderp (Post 1396160)
Yes, using a cloud service is the same as ignoring basic application security and letting all apps access everything. Nobody could use a cloud service, and then worry about one app reading another's data. I'm sorry, I'll go back to my cave now.

I see security is not taken seriously around here. For shame.
What cave are you in? In next couple of days there will be tutorials how to block/fake access for android apps to contacts etc, yes you will need to use dev mode and terminal, if you're not comfortable with that then what 1% are we talking about? Ease of use for Joe >> way for geeks to tweak stuff from company pov

Edit: srsly it's like the question "can we root/jailbreak aliendalvik" you decide what you do with this phone, if you want, you can have,much better control here

gerbick 2013-12-13 19:45
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philippe (Post 1396137)
Hmm weird. Well I use cinnamon, and it works fine for me.
Was anything else tested? If so, what OS's?

Philippe 2013-12-13 20:05
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1396162)
Was anything else tested? If so, what OS's?
Cinnamon (the sane gnome UI, other option mate) on Debian. I have seen reports of it working fine on Ubuntu. You will even find reports it works on Fedora. So it might just be some program claiming it and things failing because the autorun cannot access it.

gerbick 2013-12-13 20:14
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philippe (Post 1396169)
Cinnamon (the sane gnome UI, other option mate) on Debian. I have seen reports of it working fine on Ubuntu. You will even find reports it works on Fedora. So it might just be some program claiming it and things failing because the autorun cannot access it.
So just Linux? No Windows, no OS X? Within Windows, you'd see that Vista (unsupported by Microsoft) and Windows 7/8/8.1 which are still supported as well as OS X (10.7/10.8/10.9) whereas the last two are still supported by Apple actively; are out there in the consumer world and actively used. I'm not going to go into the BSD's and alternate OS's (think: Haiku and the like).

Mind you, I'm a Slackware user. Have been since 1996. But I now run OS X 10.9 and use VMWare to run my other OS's. I'm sure you guys can use some virtualization and test beyond a distro I've personally haven't used (although, that shouldn't really matter) and test other major OS's and versions.

Not saying it didn't happen (testing) but I'm only able to go by what's confirmed so far.

This kind of stuff is important to a wide group of possible consumers. This opens up the gate for other OS relevant questions.

TrD 2013-12-13 20:24
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1396114)
Anyone with a Iphone 5 or a galaxy note 3 that can compare browsers. How much slower is jolla browser?
I don't have those but I have Xperia Z and it is usually around 2-5 seconds(about) behind Z's Chrome when loading pages, sometimes tho, Sailfish browser was faster loading page but very rarely. U'll be using firefox or some other android browser tho if you want landscape.

Rauha 2013-12-13 20:24
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1396171)
So just Linux? No Windows, no OS X? Within Windows, you'd see that Vista (unsupported by Microsoft) and Windows 7/8/8.1 which are still supported as well as OS X (10.7/10.8/10.9) whereas the last two are still supported by Apple actively; are out there in the consumer world and actively used. I'm not going to go into the BSD's and alternate OS's (think: Haiku and the like).
.
No problems in Windows 8 when I connect Jolla. Works without a hitch.Nor on my Linux install at home. Only on OSX.

Also connected my Jolla to Windows XP at work and got a shitstrom of weird security notices, but I think thats just the usual insanity from the IT people who do that stuff where I work.

gerbick 2013-12-13 20:25
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrD (Post 1396173)
I don't have those but I have Xperia Z and it is usually around 2-5 seconds(about) behind Z's Chrome when loading pages, sometimes tho, Sailfish browser was faster loading page but very rarely. U'll be using firefox or some other android browser tho if you want landscape.
Wouldn't Jolla to Android's Firefox be the apples to apples comparison?

gerbick 2013-12-13 20:26
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauha (Post 1396174)
No problems in Windows 8 when I connect Jolla. Works without a hitch.Nor on my Linux install at home. Only on OSX.
Thanks. I thought I saw somebody else in this thread on Linux having a slight problem, but I might have been wrong. Thanks for this clarification.

Quote:
Also connected my Jolla to Windows XP at work and got a shitstrom of weird security notices, but I think thats just the usual insanity from the IT people who do that stuff where I work.
I wouldn't be surprised.

TrD 2013-12-13 20:37
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1396175)
Wouldn't Jolla to Android's Firefox be the apples to apples comparison?
Ok I'll do some fast tests, will edit this post. would love to do video of the comparisons but got no equipment for that so I cant tell exact times...so they will be only "about" times :P

edit:
Sailfish browser vs Android Firefox on Xperia Z. Now Sailfish browser pretty much beat the crap out of androids firefox when loading pages, sailfish browser beat firefox almost everytime with somewhere around 3-5 seconds faster loading, there was few times when firefox took even more than 5 seconds and 1 time when firefox was faster. However sailfish browser doesn't resize the text so i have to zoom and scroll horizontally if theres something to read.

ad29 2013-12-13 20:49
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1396101)
Yes, Because mine is in shipping state and I'm using Gnote lll as main device AWS. Still don't believe jPhone can kick it to the dust. But your comment sounds nice, and you bought twice, witch to me is like rollin the dice.
Not sure if it was intentional, but i'm digging the rhymes at the last sentence there :cool:

Rauha 2013-12-13 20:51
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
I find real world use render times to be roughly same with Firefox and Sailfish browser. Close enough that definite comparison would require too much effort for me to care.Not really suprising considering that both are (AFIK) Gecko based.

The main problems with Sailfish browser are lack of landscape, oversimplifield handling of 'extra functionality' (history, boolmarks, etc) and buggy clicking.

The last one got helluva lot better after last update, but the last time I tried there were still moments when I was left cliking a link without any effect. It's extremly annoying when it happens and the only cure seems to be to close the browser and reload it.

MisterMaster 2013-12-13 21:00
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Someone apparently installed some Android launcher:

http://kuvaton.com/k/Y5tf.png

m4r0v3r 2013-12-13 21:10
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
should be chrome vs sailfish

pycage 2013-12-13 21:37
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMaster (Post 1396187)
Someone apparently installed some Android launcher:
Yes, you can. It's just another Android app. But the Home button (which Home button?) won't take you back to it. So what's the point of running an Android launcher on Sailfish, except maybe for running widgets?

Makeclick 2013-12-13 22:23
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzillogic (Post 1395717)
And Bluetooth is too slow for large transfers, and SFTP doesn't win speed races too.

I'd really like to see USB mass storage support too. Currently I sync my music using Unison between my N9 and office machine. Granted, with a bit of hacking, you might be able to use Unison and SSH to connect over USB/RNDIS to the device, but simply hooking up by mass storage is faster and easier.

It surprised me Jolla left USB mass storage out. I really hope they will reconsider.
Actually, Ubuntu 12.04 32bit USB mass storage working with Jolla :rolleyes:

But Ubuntu 13.10 64bit not so lucky. Error: "Kaikkea kohteen ”Sailfish” sisältöä ei voitu näyttää: Kansioluetteloa ei saatu: -1: Unspecified error" (sorry only for Finnish)

Watchmaker 2013-12-13 22:30
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Just a little question that came to me a couple of seconds ago: is there a way to have a terminal app without having to enable full developer mode? I'd like to have it at hand should I need to type a quick command in a terminal (I'm used to do that on my linux pc, if needed) but I don't have any programming skill so I wouldn't need to fully root my device, on the contrary, I'd like to avoid doing that without actually needing it. Is there a terminal app in Harbour?

EDIT: Just to clarify, I don't have my Jolla yet, or I would check this by myself :p

sconf 2013-12-13 22:41
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Makeclick (Post 1396208)
Actually, Ubuntu 12.04 32bit USB mass storage working with Jolla :rolleyes:

But Ubuntu 13.10 64bit not so lucky. Error: "Kaikkea kohteen ”Sailfish” sisältöä ei voitu näyttää: Kansioluetteloa ei saatu: -1: Unspecified error" (sorry only for Finnish)
Well, maybe there *is* a reason why mtp drivers are not accepted into all Debian releases... :(

VDVsx 2013-12-13 23:01
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sconf (Post 1396138)
-email address I wish to use in outgoing email "from" and "reply-to" field
Yes, that's exactly what is missing in our current settings :)

Fuzzillogic 2013-12-13 23:10
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMaster (Post 1396187)
Someone apparently installed some Android launcher:

http://kuvaton.com/k/Y5tf.png
He installed an interesting ambiance as well :D

szopin 2013-12-13 23:28
Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchmaker (Post 1396210)
Just a little question that came to me a couple of seconds ago: is there a way to have a terminal app without having to enable full developer mode? I'd like to have it at hand should I need to type a quick command in a terminal (I'm used to do that on my linux pc, if needed) but I don't have any programming skill so I wouldn't need to fully root my device, on the contrary, I'd like to avoid doing that without actually needing it. Is there a terminal app in Harbour?

EDIT: Just to clarify, I don't have my Jolla yet, or I would check this by myself :p
If you get the rpm for fingerterm somewhere I can try to install it before activating developer mode, curious as well

Is there extras-devel for sailfish somewhere (with build-essentials?) or the shop is the only repo?


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