Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

GAAAHHH! I do not want "hacker friendly". I don't want to spend hours fiddling with settings, erasing the OS that comes with the machine, and setting up an entirely new, unsupported, warrantee-breaking custom OS instead. I mean, it's great that some manufacturers "allow" you to put a more free OS on their machines, but why can't they just ship them (and support them!) with such an OS from the beginning?

I bought into the whole concept of the N900 when it came out. What I really want is another N900 -- a mobile device with what is (at least close to) a vanilla Linux distribution on it.

The Ubuntu phone is probably the closest thing to that right now, other than Jolla's Sailfish. I may try one of those out, if they start catching on...

Ah yes, thanks, I'll just go to the back of the room and play with my odd little hacker-kits, along with the other oddballs who actually want freedom. No flagship mobile devices for us!

Um, no, no problems at all with the original display. Lots of pics of perfectly-running Aigo x86 tablets available; here are some:

http://attachment.imp3.net/forum/201...86y8w0baza.jpg

http://attachment.imp3.net/forum/201...4bbds7bsxd.jpg

http://attachment.imp3.net/forum/201...pgcpfspxy7.jpg

Oh, and by the way, the original x86 did actually have a micro-AB type USB receptacle:

http://attachment.imp3.net/forum/201...nm5baai5n9.jpg

So that is another visible improvement you can see that Jolla made to the original design.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

As far as how these delays will affect the company, to paraphrase speculation prior to your posts, wherein it will end the company if one particular person doesn't get their tablet before a certain holiday would mean that the company in question will close up, never get any other investors and thus are a bunch of soon to be out of work engineers. Yeah, opinion based.

The delays are not intentional. I truly believe so - that's my opinion. Does it damage the layman, who mostly do not know who/what Jolla is outside of this forum or the IndieGoGo campaign. I think not.

The problems come whenever you alter a reference design and have to source those changes. It happens. It just happens that these changes and delays are out in the open whereas most other companies mask these delays with other product releases.

So yeah... opinion based. The rest is just a puerile reaction to an unfortunate truth.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Copernicus, not that I disagree with you but to play a devil's advocate, if you want a flagship device supported by the manufacturer, then you do not care about what OS it is running. You buy such devices as a black box and all you care about is whether it connects to your Facebook and allows you to watch the latest video of your nephew's girlfriend's cat. If you care what OS it is running, then you are already putting yourself into the "geek" pigeon hole.

gerbick, ZogG, you two are not on the same wavelength. One of you is talking about facts (delays, miscommunication...), the other one about their interpretation. Of course facts are facts. Dropped objects fall to the ground, the sky is blue and Jolla is perpetually late. But how people react to those things depends on their beliefs and opinions.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Ever thought I just refuse to go into the realm of what most of those people that are ****ing bellyaching about ad nauseum? Seriously... it's late. We get it. Why not state that water is wet?

But pages upon pages of "JOLLA IS GONNA GO OUT OF BUSINESS IF I DON'T GET MY TABLET BEFORE CHRISTMAS" and other countdown type of posts are just so very boring.

They're late. Fact. People are serial overreacting. Also fact.

So why not be rational and see that delays happen in damn near everything we use on a semi-daily basis that's technology based. **** happens.

That's all I have left to say.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

<cough>N900</cough> ;)

Yeah, Nokia spoiled me. A flagship-quality device that runs my favorite Linux terminal software out of the box, that lets me use persistent storage the way it was meant to be used, that doesn't try to pin me down as no more than a captive consumer and purchaser of the goods offered by their closed ecosystem.

And yeah, I know, the modern mobile device is designed specifically for the person who is willing to do no more than spend all their time sitting on their couch, purchasing music, videos, and games. We all now live in Steve Jobs' world; creating your own content is passé.

But man, let a guy dream a little. ;)

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

To not let this thread stop:
my opinion is that water is not wet but water makes me wet. ;)

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Water isn't wet. Wetness is a description of our experience of water; what happens to us when we come into contact with water in such a way that it impinges on our state of being. We, or our possessions, 'get wet'. A less impinging sense experience of water is that it is cold or warm, while visual experience tells us that it is green or blue or muddy or fast-flowing. We learn by experience that a sensation of wetness is associated with water: 'there must be a leak/I must have sat in something.'

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

I disagree. Water makes inanimate objects wet too. Water is an inanimate object. Unless you separate a single molecule, you can think of water as two smaller bodies of water, each making the other one wet. IOW, water makes itself wet. Ergo, water is wet.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

In terms of physics, this is correct -- if you define the word "water" in an appropriate manner. However, linguistically, the word "water" in English is a mass noun. As such, it is treated as an undifferentiated substance, such that specific individual ("countable") subsets cannot be identified. Moreover, water has "cumulative reference": i.e., if X is "water" and Y is "water", the sum X + Y is still "water".

So I would argue, at least in terms of English usage, that no, water cannot be made "wet". Any unit of water added to another unit of water becomes treated as just a single mass of water.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

finally some useful info in this thread

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

I don't want o feed trolls like ZogG but...

It just marketing talk. So far no company has shown any device with SFOS. I am sorry to say it but I doubt we will see it in reality.

SFOS still missing features that almost all devices has support for today such as bluetooth profiles(RFCOM?), usb host mode etc... and QT API to use internal/external sensors, bluetooth etc.

Some of that could be there if they upgraded Qt... Jolla say they are a SW company but they lack time to upgrade the most important core components? Now that makes me wonder how they can compete with Android? If they want that they must support this basic stuff.

You may now say: "such stuff is only used by geeks". Seriously no!

More and more people use they phone/tablet to connect external stuff as sensors etc. Turn on/off light in home etc... Connected via BT, serial etc...

And ofcourse geeks also use phone/tablet to connect to RPI, Arduino, STM32 Nucleo etc... Connecting sensors to Tablet, Phone is already mainstream. That's why we need more ready API.

The thing is programmers are lazy and not interesting to use low end hack to get basic stuff working.

It is a really shame every time I see a youtube clip where they use some Android device to connect to a sensor or STM32 Nucleo, Arduino etc... I often think: "Hey that I should do with my Jolla Phone" then I realise: "I need that X API, lets see if Qt has this. I should forget this I need Qt 5.4 making that work :(" or "I need USB Hostmode"

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Yeah, but moisture is the essence of wetness.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

The first iPhone came out with ZERO APIs (no third party application support) and even at that time Nokia phones had very wide APIs to do communication with outside world. Still the first iPhone sold like hotcakes.

And the APIs will come but it takes time. It took long time for Nokia Symbian, iPhone and Android. It will also take time for Sailfish OS.

I think there is a difference. In Sailfish OS there are lower level "Linux" APIs available for many of things even if the higher level APIs are not yet there. So writing that kind of apps requires more work right now with Sailflish OS but it is possible compared to other more closed platforms.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

That's exactly where I am coming from. Addition is cumulative: if adding two parts of water makes a single part of water, so does removing a part. If you remove water from water, does it make the remaining water dry? Not unless you've removed so much that there is nothing left to remove.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

The difference is that when the iPhone came out, it had no iPhone to compete with, if you catch my drift. The world has moved since 2007, releasing a half-baked system and expecting the masses swoon no longer works.

THAT is definitely true. Thanks for saying that, I was going to say something along those lines but you said it better.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

That was 2007 and when Iphone came the phone was unique and cool for the masses. It is 2015 and most users expect what I listed is working from start.

It should already been there. Some of the API has been discussed since SFOS 1.0 beta two years ago. And some even since Harmattan time. Lets say they decide porting to newer Qt probadly means a 6-8 month work, testing etc... And that means we will see it a year from now. Do they have money doing that? Sorry I doubt.

Again developers, like myself, are lazy and expect API is there already and want to use their time make apps not spend time hack low level coding that may break next release or not even allowed in store.

For example if you are a employed developer that want to support SFOS you probadly don't have time playing with low level hacks.

And guess what? If Jolla want to success they they need pro applications. Apps like the masses want! And if the API is not in place no pro developer are interested in support the platform.

2007 was different you can't compare what IOS was in that time and SFOS is now. People expect more these days. When IOS came 2007 it was something fresh.

The problem with Jolla is. 2012 I though Jolla is great for hackers and geeks. And later they may get bigger.

But it is now 2015. Jolla Phone is not that hacker friendly that I hoped for and they still struggles getting companys release a mass market phone.

So who is Jolla for? Seriously I have lost hope on this company even if I have big respect for the people behind it, and the community. The idea to create something unique and pissing on Elop. But something has got wrong latelly...

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Why are you guys always stuck in the past?

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Because there is a limit for how long you can wait for "bright" future :)

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

He who controls the past controls the future. That is how the pet consumer can be duped into believing that a supposedly 'new' feature is not merely a re-introduction of something that was previously taken away. Alternatively, they can be convinced that removing some basic feature is in their best interest because leaving said feature intact would simply be unworkable, despite the fact that there have been no problems with it to date (e.g removing microSD slot because it is too 'confusing' for the user).

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Why do you guys always think you know what users thinks/wants?

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Users want 4G, can it still happen ? :p

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Because we're users.

Worse, we're unhappy geeks with the multitude of options out there and more than likely think that whatever Frankenstein monster of a "bit of this and a bit of that" type of creation would be better than what's currently being shoveled towards the masses.

And I'd say that we'd be all wrong. But we continue to do it anyway because it's fun...

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Yes, I also thought about that before I wrote the post. I remember when iPhone was released and "everyone" said something like it cannot succeed because it is half-baked and masses require more. But history keeps repeating itself to infinity, for the good and the bad. Also I want to believe in "A progress can only achieved by trying, and trying again if you fail" as I said earlier in the thread. So that is why I came to the conclusion it is still possible to challenge the current dominant dinosaurs. It might take time but it is possible :)

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

And in 2007 the most smartphone users expected to be able to run apps on their phone. But you are correct that the coolness was one of the driving forces for selling it and overcoming many of its shortcomings. I see no difference if it is 2007 or 2015. There will come new cool things which will help to change the smartphone world and masses will again forgive some of things that come with them.

You are correct that it rises the barrier, and it is not the only barrier. Jolla is breaking those barriers one by one. It takes time. And it remains to be seen if they have chosen the right path through the rock so that they can succeed. The story is still unfolding.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Good answer. Ok then. Let's continue.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

It's either half baked on release, or it will never release. That's the reality.

Same thing with many other projects, for example F-35 project gets similar gripes because not all weapons systems are working and certified. It's like "back in days we had everything working with F-16 on release and now they cannot do even that right..." without any consideration that since then the amount of different systems have multiplied and whereas older fighters were integrated cumulatively as those weapons systems were developed over timespan of multiple decades, some people now expect F-35 to do it in couple of years and judge the whole project as failure because not everything is ready at this very moment. It's very easy thing to do - just parrot what every not-so-objective armchair-general says. But in truth, most of it doesn't have anything to do with reality. And as with Jolla, much of bemoaning is actually result from the openness that was not present when those "good old planes" were developed....

Another thing is that we should not expect everything to happen instantly. It took Android years to break through, not to even mention all the money that was needed to do it. It's simply not realistic to think Sailfish will conquer the world in couple of years, if ever - but to be relevant it needs continued development and effort to get manufacturers to adopt it. In time it will earn it's niche, or it will die (and community will have "I told you so!1!!"-party).

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

I don't follow fighter jets but that sounds like a good example. You make it sound like the F-16 (Harmattan) was the result of a long evolution but the F-35 (Sailfish) was made completely from scratch, as if no one has ever made a fighter jet (mobile phone OS) before. Clearly this is not the case. Moreover, I do not know about the difference between F-16 and F-35 but the difference between Harmattan and Sailfish is not that great so this is where your example loses a bit of an edge.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Um.... no. You missed the point, which was not comparison between Harmattan and Sailfish.

Mobile OS's and devices have very long history of development, along with it comes burden of history. Now, if newcomer is to support all the bells and whistles invented in that time frame, it will take huge amount of time and resources even if those technologies are considered to be "already existing." So the choice is either to release something that doesn't have it all, or try to reassure investors to fund closed development for 5+ years to have "everything" in place. And after you launch it, there are those cheeky guys saying it's half baked because there is no support for X or Y, if needed it can be some non-relevant legacy bit from six years after the great potato war.... :)

Also, it's worth mentioning that F-16 was to be cheap, maneuverable fighter without all the bells and whistles instead of super expensive, all-new super-fighter like F-15 or F-14 (which actually was also released half baked, it's development was done in three major parts because it was known that it would never enter the service if everything was to be ready at launch...). Most of F-16's capabilities have been added on later, so it kind of launched half baked. But it was extremely successful. F-35 was not made from scratch either, every invention has roots somewhere and F-35 draws from previous generations of multi-role fighters and iterations of stealth-fighter/bombers. Most of weapons for it already exist and have been in active service for years. How come it takes so much effort to integrate them all? One of the reasons is actually software and kind of UI for all of them, as F-35 is not designed to just bolt on different weapons and use them as it has been done before but to integrate multiple systems into much improved combination of sensor data and situational awareness. Among other fancy things. It's very ambitious plan - which unfortunately has resulted in budget overruns, delays and PR-catastrophe even before entering service. Still, there is a good chance it will turn up to be very competitive in the future.

How does it compare to Sailfish? If there are lessons to be learned, IMO they would be these:

- You don't need to have everything 100% ready at day 1 or even day 2. You need a viable platform to build upon.
- Added features increase overall complexity. Complexity increases the cost and time needed to implement and test it all.
- If you try to do too much in one step, you will end up with budget overruns, delays and boatload of bad PR, no matter how good the end product may be in the future. People just love to see bad things happening (to others).
- Adding features in incremental steps has proved to be effective strategy

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

IC. Thanks for the clarification, now I see where you are coming from. To clarify my stance, I was completely and consciously ignoring that bit because to the best of my knowledge, Sailfish comes from the same people as Harmattan. Not the same company, but the same people. So, as far as I am concerned, Sailfish is not a newcomer. It is Harmattan 2.0. Jolla does not have to implement all the bells and whistles anew, only remember how they were implemented the first time and do it again, in those few cases where for copyright reasons they cannot use an already existing code.

I am a software engineer in real life. Been for 25 years. And you can trust me when I tell you that it is much easier to reimplement the same functionality I implemented a long time ago for another employer (and therefore I cannot just reuse the code, and even if I could, it may not fit in the new project anyway without modification) than it is to implement something I have only heard about but never worked on myself. I see Jolla in exactly the same position.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

So, if it is necessary to re-invent the wheel with each iteration, how can progress ever be made? Are we really expected to periodically return to a state where basic features like copy/paste are missing?

The problem is the 'not invented here' mentality that seems to be prevalent these days. Inventing your own wheel means it's easier to control it.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Partially true, Jolla was founded by people who worked with Harmattan, however, they were not the only ones who did. It's really not like the whole Harmattan-team decided to form Jolla and create Sailfish from open parts of MeeGo. Resources that were available at Nokia were also very different.

Some may be done that way, some have evolved since and have to be implemented again. Also, some parts are controlled by 3rd parties and may contain requirements that Jolla is not willing to meet (ie. privacy), which kind of limits what they can do about it. Anyway, there's still much to be done and I do hope that the split between SW and HW-companies improve things on that part.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

I believe this to hold true only if your platform is actually viable, that is, created to be adaptable.
Now, the question is, is SFOS such a platform? It appears to me that this "let's keep it flexible and simple" (very common in UNIX systems overall and definitely not a bad idea) is kind of the opposite of what Mr Jobs has done with iPhone; who knew what they wanted (and needed) and focussed on it by providing for example high-level, easy to use API's for developers for basically everything.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Apple had some serious restrictions what you could do with their API:s. There's no reason why Sailfish per se couldn't be adaptable, but Jolla does has some restrictions in their store, which IMO is something that should be addressed with high priority (as should proper support for paid-for apps in store and general support for more APIs). We don't know why, but my guess is that they need to develop better tools to check and QA apps that are to be delivered there. As privacy is one of the important things to the Sailfish-platform, they cannot afford to let through an app that doesn't conform to their idea of privacy (like Apple didn't want anything that didn't fit their platform properly or that was direct competitor to apps/services they provided by themselves). Is Sailfish viable? That remains to be seen. But it needs to attract support from manufacturers, without it there's no way it can live in the long run. Which means, at times it may have to go against the will and priorities of the community.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Actually iOS is based on unix and you can get access to system with jailbreak and do a lot of interesting stuff. For example one of the really popular TMO users added support for android wearables for iPhone before it was released officially by Google :P

And if you say that he publish app to Stroe, you should remember that there are a lot of API limitations for Sailfish store even with available APIs :P

As of paid apps, there is huge thread on TJC that is few years old and was started by Jolla about paid apps, but as it get activity Jolla ignored it and any questions(again they started this thread, which is ironical). And after a huge noise from community on TJC/IRC/here/twitter they finally answered with "more info soon (c)" reply, as always :)

I think the paid app is one of the greates examples why I'm skeptical about Jolla for a long time. You can call me troll or that I'm bashing, but there are more than enough reasons for that, additionally there are certain patterns of them handling problems and using contradictionary PR(about how they are about openness but actually no info and only covering the problems).

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Yep and by jailbraking you are excluding yourself from all the support from Apple when things go sour, possibly even get yourself banned from AppStore because of it. They also have been working steadily to make it more difficult.

Um... didn't I just mention API-restrictions in Jolla store? Didn't I just say it should be addressed in high priority?

Usually when persons output is ~100% negativity, doom and gloom, there is enough reason to call it bashing you know... :)

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

I just wanted to say thank you, to all who have posted in this thread, I agree with some things people post, I disagree with a lot more, but either way they are mostly quality, well thought out, informative,intelligent posts, and well worth reading (not including mine of course)

Its keeping me interested until my Tablet does finally arrive - im sure it will, just not sure when. This year, next year?

The "water" posts had me in stitches. :D

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

No. Thank you. The pleasure is all mine.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

My favourite quote from the whole entirety of TJC: paid app support got confirmed as urgent goal for store since over a year. The poster clearly did not see any contradiction in that statement. It required a follow-up post to point out that "urgent goal" and "over a year" seem to be at odds with each other.

That post was made in January 2015, which means the paid apps support must have been an urgent goal for nearly two years now.

We've been though this. One person's "100% negativity" is another person's "objective view". And vice versa.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

The biggest lessons to be learned from the F-35 project are still largely in the making while the software is under development to match the hardware’s theoretical capabilities as well as future war scenario’s (also in the making) all currently ongoing air operations are nothing an F-16 would not handle.

The lessons from the F-35 have been learned and proven vallid in the past by Nokia and they failed. Complete your features and don’t stay hanging forever on step 4/5 tills somebody exploits your primary weakness that you were not believing in your chosen direction enough to ever finish the job or simple conclude there is no market for your product and you are unable to create demand. (unlike the makers of the F-35)

Wish you'd stayed with the usual car comparison instead but there are indeed still parallels to be drawn with mobile.

A platform a mobile phone like Jolla you still need engine (mobile data and telephone carrier) , air frame (body that can be held to telephone call), basic analogue instruments and landing gear (display, sound devices, input and offline usability). The detection, deflection systems and weapons or load out are the so called apps. Their type varies based on the usage scenario.
One indispensable traditional feature would be the on board cannon.

F-35 reportedly couldn’t fire it till 2019 because of software. But should be ok as it is a small traditional user base that is crying out for it.

Looks a lot like Jolla thinking to get away with ignoring the users would ever need / appreciate a telephone with call history, address book with groups, SIP,.. from the start. But you have apps, Android apps, you can run your favourite Android apps! And a new, refreshed interface. Sorry, but not good enough two years later.

All will be fine in time when software gets implemented sooner, later or never because if we wait long enough requirements eventually change (cancelled global roaming tariffs would SMS counters financially irrelevant).

That F$#$%-35 is another example of a "we know best what the user needs" project.

It enjoys almost guaranteed sales success through combined lobbying, unlimited tax payer sponsorship and media controlled (down to the news app filled Android device) market eco systems like for example client countries forced into and seeking compliance to new "NATO standard".
As F-16’s still suffice for bombing the usual low tech country with outdated air defences it counts on future usage scenario's in the form of artificially created threats (demands) through global, behind the scenes media warmongering and weaponising efforts (RU is putting its country near to our bases, and see how evil IS' spread can't be stopped with our current and ready super advanced tech etc. etc..).

And if the actual average deployment scenario for this software dependant fighter jet project would turn out not to be exactly the one envisioned by the seller, or simply threaten the economic interests of the sellers’ home country then for certain the on / off switch still remains the seller's option to discharge the situation in his advantage.

Thus the seller retains the possibility for rendering expensive hardware and software -unless thoroughly hacked- useless or obsolete to the buyer, if not ultimately turning itself to attack the buyer. Controlled obsolescence will do its work and it will be time to purchase the next version. Lessons still to be learned.


This forum seems to combine voices about the most critical end-users and the most knowledgeable managers that know exactly how a global company is run and how to please investors while throwing out the minimal required bits to the end users to keep alive the hunger for more.

This large business picture is a great and entertaining way to feed discussions while waiting for a tipping point where our favourite OS becomes self proliferating.

As a user where I needed to assume a very tolerant attitude towards Jolla in the past (2013) with regard to missing basic functionality (groups, SMS character counter, copy&paste, SIP interface, no security interface ..)
IN THE PAST but my patience is running out as Jolla seems not bound to fix the top pages of most voted items anywhere soon.

My Jolla still suffices for phone calling but it is not the best phone I have ever had.
It is however the best phone I have had to surf the web (thanks Mozilla Firefox), but that is just because I refuse to use other platforms that are also very good in just that.
It has good battery life.
It has a cool interface that does not make me mad like Android does but it is not the best interface I have ever used nor is the so called refinement 2.0.
It can record phone calls thanks to low security features. Very useful.

Jolla is still something nice and unique but by no means what I had in mind for the future of mobile in early 2010 when I first touched the N900.
Not that it matters much, I have learned to forgot the past and the expectations of 2010. I compromise with what I have available for direct usage and have learned not to trust tech companies to finish their products.

On a daily basis I forget to look out for this tablet to arrive if it was 2009.

By purchasing that tablet I have chosen to support Jolla in whatever crazy idea they had to come up with that would give them time and funds and a time frame to finish the phone OS.

But now I am wondering if I have helped to give the wrong signal and where a collective “we will not support the indigogo tablet campaign” would have gotten Jolla?

Sailfish could have been at least halfway further to feature completeness and running on Fairphone instead of that tablet.
Now the real work is being left to the community while Jolla is officially supporting Sailfish on a Chinese generic hardware nobody had asked for.

We get it , it is possible and a nice demo, but next time in your free time please.

So now over to the serious matters, feature completeness and combining Sailfish with ultimate smartphone hardware. Now and not in 20 years because unlike defense complexes, Jolla can't shape the world demand to match its offer.

If ever the F-35 sales craziness sparks a hot WWIII before it’s finished, for the time being, my bet will be grabbing a few N900’s for the future computing needs along the road.