Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I was always advocating that CEOs should be paid in stock, not in money. Sure, the company can provide accommodation, traveling expenses and such, and a CEO ought to easily live off of a dividend from the given stock as a salary, and a CEO would be allowed to liquidate the stock only after leaving his position. That would teach them to take far greater care of the companies they are entrusted with. Oh, yeah, that should be applicable to the BoD as well.

In this case we have a CEO that got $6M+ last year for nothing but producing loses and bringing Nokia to the ground... Wonder what his golden parachute looks like after he finishes off Nokia for good...


Don't know why are you so shocked? He was spewing that claptrap for more than a year now, and it always sounds the same - as utter bullcrap!

--

Back to the topic - another day, another history low for NOK stock - €1.60 after somebody got desperate enough and sold a great deal of stock in very short time. On NYSE the price is dancing on the thin razor blade line of $2, and I expect it to stay at that psychological level for the rest of the day unless somebody else panics and listen to more and more rumors of stock dropping drastically after the Q2 results and Q3 profit warnings. Next week, however, it's going bellow $2 at NYSE and bellow €1.50 at OMX for sure... Of course, the stock story of today is RIMM with their announced delay, but one would expect Nokia to at least remain neutral while one of their main competitors is falling, however - Nokia truly is that bad that even the disappearance of RIM completely wouldn't do them any good.

And, on that note, investors have ~96 more hours to join a class-action suit against NOK for deliberate defrauding of the investors regarding the Lumia line. More info @ HERE.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Yeah and I definitivly not like it. To many people are incredibly blinded by Google now even if that company now is so damn big and evil as Microsoft was in those days.

Hell are people totally blind to see how much we now are used by google now!?

I definitivly WANT small competitors to. Like blackberry10 and but that is also soon killed by Microsoft because they will fight as hell to get some from Google and probadly they will take some users next year thats for sure.

So in the short run there will only be three big ashole companys left that will fight until there only is one left.

And thats incredible bad for customers and even democracy :(

So dont be so damn blinded by Google. Its same **** as Microsoft.

Btw every damn geek on this forum should support meltemi team to start a new company. I definitivly would by that device even if its not "the coolest new hardware with Triple superduper CPU"

So ****inbg sick of this big ashole corporations that is using people and make endusers blind! And thats also one of the reasons EU is broken. We prefer buy stuff from china for lowprices as possible instead of thinking with our brains. I mean seriosuly. If prices is to low it also meas workers are not payed well. And also means EU/US sell out companys to Asia etc...

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

whats wrong with the keynote ?

Google is just a big company like other big companies. They are not charities and will expliot you how they can. Nothing new there.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

If you replyed to my post:

First of I did not say Google keynote was wrong. I am just sick and tired how naive people are about google. Not just in this forum, not just some people here. And no not danramos(who thinks I always means HIM, wish I dont) or maybe specc (wish I replyed). No, what I mean is in general.

Just the facts that it seems there is MANY naive to think "Google is your friend" and everything coming from google is SOOOO fantastic.

I saw exaclty the same in the 90:s when windows got mainstream and killed Amiga/Atari era. Some people was so stupid they believed Microsoft was the one who gave us internet at my work as an example.

And now the new generation thinks google is sooo fantastic.

My point is I definitivbly not trust Google or ANY company. If we buys everything coming from one company we later is just as brainwatched as in northkorea or similar....

Or more like 1984.....

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

That's applicable to most any company that has a lot of followers.

This is also applicable to most companies.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Apple rocks!

http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/29/a...-galaxy-nexus/

This is how it's done, Nokia.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Sometimes violence is necessary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67gYzLDKGfc

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Both RIM and Nokia are on the slippery slope to oblivion but the response of these 2 companies could not be more stark. RIM at least acknowledges that it is in dire straits and is taking action to re-consider its business model, seek strategic partners or buyers. But Nokia is still heavily in denial. According to Elop Nokia is in the middle of transition, Lumia sales are "encouraging" and WP will save Nokia. Such horseshit is swallowed wholesale by the Board and the Chairman goes out on a limb to defend Elop. When the crunch comes RIM will be able to maximize its remaining value to shareholders while Nokia's shareholders will be left holding nothing but Elop's horseshit.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Micronokia will do the same instead of invent and make new cool stuff they will patenttroll. Same goes for EU :(

Its nuts :(

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

So, what did Google do to you, exactly? :) I'm curious about this hostility. Near as I can tell, Google isn't doing the same things that Microsoft did. I don't see them strong-arming partners or demanding that customers stay within their brand (if anything, they simply make you WANT to stay with their brand) and, most importantly, they're promoting open-source and openness in general. I seem to recall Microsoft would ruin partners and sue everyone to hell--I'm really not seeing that from Google. I've only felt ENABLED by Google and Android, not used. (By contrast, I've ultimately ended up feeling used and abused by Nokia after giving them my money.) So please... can you elaborate? I'm starting to wonder whether perhaps you're throwing around the 'blind' label while holding some inexplicable hostility against Google for some reason.

I'm still not sure where there's been any kind of exploitation, though.

Hah! PROOF that you single me out! ;)

OMIGOD! I love it! That is a GREAT name for it! The all-new Microsoft DURFACE! Elop can be its DURR-faced mascot!! :)


That's why Microsoft has totally gotten so much love from the customers, right? How's that market share for Windows CE/Mobile/Phone/flavor-of-the-day looking again?


Also, RIM hasn't been guilty of osbourning their own business repeatedly the way Elop did. Elop is an incredibly inept CEO and, I'll say this yet again, I have serious concerns that he might in fact be clinically rehtarded (why is that word censored? Seriously?). He probably should be getting help for that and the board of directors shouldn't keep treating him as if he's the most intelligent executive at Nokia to run this company (ironically, proving that they might be right). You wouldn't let a blind man drive a bus of passengers, why would you let Elop run your company? Unless...

http://pleco.org/nok/microsoft-elop.jpg

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Rank the following in order of most evil. I'll start:

Microsoft
Apple
Oracle
Samsung
Google

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Danramos about google

Control people
Store info what we are doing

Same goes ofcourse for other similar companys like facebook but I dont want everything stored on the same company. I wojld rather buy device from a small company if it didnt get bought buy those big corporations :( they are all evil :(

If thats not a problem i wonder why we are so scared about when Gov.. are doing it?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Google
Facebook
Hitler
Microsoft
Apple
Elop
Samsung
Oracle
Nokia

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

You do realize that people are GIVING the information to Google that they want stored. The government doesn't tend to ask.

Also.. what do you mean 'control people?' I'm not sure that I've seen Google control anyone. Is this some veiled reference to Google's self-driving cars? Because, that would be a funny joke. :)

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Sony
Apple
Oracle
-

I place Microsoft in chaotic neutral but they're trying to copy Apple these days, so that is probably temporary.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Ah yes, Sony: "How to Not Rule the World by Being too Proprietary"

One of the grandfathers of evil; they could have had it all.

Good call.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Dammit... somebody beat me to Sony.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I've never understood people who mention Sony about being proprietary, rootkit fine, but proprietary? am I just not buying the same products as everyone else?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

You're probably joking (you HAVE to be joking unless you were born yesterday), but just in case you're not...
BluRay, ATRAC, Betamax, UMD, Memory Stick, and so on and so on.

Here... here's a good article for you:
Sony's Long List of Format Failure, From Betamax to MemoryStick Micro

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Granted Sony has a long list of failed storage formats, but when did they raise an all-out litigation attack to ban other manufacturers from making there own formats that serve a similar purpose?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I'm not sure that Apple is litigating storage formats. I'm also pretty sure we're talking about comparative evilness based on what they've done--not on litigation specifically.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I'm completely serious. If you were to think like that then DVD is proprietary, CD, MicroSD, and even VHS are all proprietary. Ironically DVD and CD are even proprietary to Sony, as in they created it.They are all proprietary formats which became de facto standards yet still remain proprietary. Much like Blu-Ray is the de facto standard for the HD disc format now, yet people still call it proprietary, though they would not dare do the same for DVD it seems. I even find it extremely odd that your article, if it were trying to talk about establishing standards includes UMD disc, as if a nameless cartridge is more a standard format simply because it remains nameless.

I assume what most people mean when they say proprietary is support for de facto standards in their devices, where I don't see the problem. I mean, their devices support the competing proprietary formats better than other manufacturers support theirs. As for actual real standards set by governing bodies, I've only seen support and bigger contribution than most.

Oddly the only compliant I have about Sony not supporting an established de facto standard was a device you didn't even mention; Vita memory cards, though in fairness the console space is a razor and blade model. Still, Sonys consoles support standards and de facto standards better than their competitors.

I think this idea that they are more proprietary spawns from the fact that they are a big name which competes in a space before a de facto standard becomes established. What then happens is that people have a problem with continued support for that format (Memory Stick and ATRAC in particular) even if there is additional support for the now de facto standard in their devices too, that's a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Anyway, wildly off topic and just an observation. Sorry.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

What about things like SOPA? Sony's money and influence = changes in international law.

When you see propaganda full of dubious claims before you get to see a movie? Blame Sony and Disney. Pretty much everything where you feel that the company hates the customers, is owned by Sony or alike.

It's not black and white, but this list paints a picture of who is willing to pay to change the borders between what's legal and what's illegal, change the map of what the state (US, in this case) should prioritize over regular crime.

It's not black and white, because those who oppose also have monetary interests in NOT changing the law/upholding of it.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

How unrelated is that! That was the Motion Picture Association of America and the Recording Industry Association of America, lobbying by these two organizations encompasses pretty much all of the movie and recording studios out there. That's not blocking your competitors with litigation, it's lobbying by an entire Industry. Why people associate that with Sony specifically is beyond me.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Sony directly gave over a million dollars to that one law, plus what they channel through RIAA/MPAA. BTW, take a look at who is on the board of those, and you find Sony again.

This is not "unrelated", this is "evil".

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

As did all of the others in that industry. Two of the other big organizations of the "big 3" (Time Warner, Universal) gave much more. They too are on the board of the MPAA and RIAA, it would only make sense seeing as they are in the industry.

My point about it being unrelated was that it was not an example of an "all-out litigation attack to ban other manufacturers". Not in the slightest. Unless you think piracy is a manufacturer?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

It's alive...!!!

Nokia claims Nexus 7 tablet infringes on its patents

:rolleyes:

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Care to define "it"?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I don't remember ever talking about litigation attacks to ban other manufacturers. I distinctly remember talking about Sony and the like shifting it's influence to change laws. Whatever tangent you are on, is your business.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

He probably meant to prefix IT with 'sh'

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...-nokia-patents

time for nokia to enter the patent fight fro real to make way for a new nokia tablet. Apple and google are using their patents, so time for nokia and microsoft to push harder in this area.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I'd rather say, "time for Nokia to enter the patent fight because if there's enough of these, the patent systems will eventually have to be reformed".

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Entering the patent fight might have a backlash mainly due to the drawn out way it went with Qualcomm and later they're dependent on them for hardware via their strategic partnership with Microsoft.

As it stands, Nokia entering into the patent fights as opposed to securing the residual income from their patent portfolio could be damaging. Nokia needs to work with other companies, not against them imho.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I saw that after you mentioned the evil, I initially thought you were answering his question directly as an example. Keep in mind this was before your edit with the additional information too.

Anyway, my main point was lobbying by an entire industry to stop piracy isn't evil and that it was the whole industry and not Sony specifically though they seem to get the brunt of it. SOPA itself wasn't "evil" for trying to stop piracy (if anything I consider piracy "evil" if anything has to be defined as such, though I know people have their reasons for it too) what was wrong with SOPA was that it was poorly written and stupidly vague which didn't get public backing, that's why many companies withdrew support after the draft bill. What's strange to see is that Sony withdrew support for SOPA yet others, which includes the "Big 3", didn't. It also invested the least in that bill as part of the big 3 (the big 3 media and entertainment conglomerates run most of the industry, in the recording industry they were known as the big 4 until Universal bought EMI) yet they still bear the brunt for having initially lobbied to stop piracy. Universal and Time Warner hardly get a mention and they supported it till the end. I just don't see why, perhaps those who get enraged by it like their comic book movies too much for harsh words or a boycott.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I understand your confusion, but I wasn't talking about litigation. I believe that patent litigation is a flaw in the system that desperate companies will always use, and it's a system based on a sound principle that unfortunately is used to secure rights to too many obvious design choices that never should have been granted. It's not evil until it's abused. It IS abused, but for now I will leave to others to decide what patents should and should not have been given.

As to SOPA/lobbyism not being evil:

In my opinion, going outside of the official channels, using money directly as an influence on elected officials to change a working law outside of the elected officials official policies to improve profit is by itself evil. Lobbyism is inherently evil. It is borderline legalized corruption, and the very existence of it pushes our politicians and officials over the edge onto a slippery slope.

Furthermore, the shape and form of laws like SOPA/PIPA and the european equivalents form tools that is bad for mankind overall. To make money. This is evil.

Finally, that other corporations also do it, doesn't make the leading company less evil.

Mind you, I'm not going to defend piracy. But even today there is a perfectly working copyright law in most countries, that could and should be utilized against piracy, without turning to censorship, mass surveillance and removing citizens the right to internet access. Not only is the copyright laws fully operational, but the same lobby interests are changing them continuously, which is why no copyrighted work will ever fall into public domain for as long as you live. I quite understand the need to stop piracy. But the ways proposed are worse than the problem.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

It's official, Apple wins "Evil C*nt of the Week":

Galaxy Nexus pulled from Google Play store

https://play.google.com/store/device...axy_nexus_hspa

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

That was last week. Haven't really spotted any unusually tech-evil activity yet this week.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

http://www.pcworld.com/article/25874...pard_name.html

Plus, yesterday was the last day to apply to sue nokia for Freud :D (related to stockmarket)

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Yes... I find that an odd case. Suing someone for failing to gain stock value, because they (Nokia) said they'd do good. Doesn't each and every company ever upsell their future value? Oh, well.