Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Like common definition of intelligence - you cannot possibly be intelligent person unless you are extremely cynical and pessimistic because expressing things in positive light is just r*****ed and gullible. No exeptions (exept when comparing to others). :p

Ok, more seriously... having been in places where people have to be inspired and motivated to do things, I have found that best way to kill all interest is to resort to nitpicking, bashing and negativity. Even small issues tend to grow into serious problems in such atmosphere and environment. It's not constructive, no matter if things said are true or not. But of course it's just my naiive point of view. :)

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Isn't your warranty in jeopardy if you change things that you are allowed to change(linux things) from start on Jolla?
AFAIK there are certain things Jolla would not repair/use warranty if you changed in system, so it's same same. And i had jailbroken iphone for few months and was using app store with no issues, not an expert but I think you are not banned for jailbreaking, at least that what was few years ago.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

You are mostly right, but on contrary some things are not done by Jolla until there is a lot of noise and "bashing" from community. As well as most of the times I do try to explain and show the logic in what i say and do not use "they are boo", "they are overreacting" while the answers mostly "you are just negative", "you are bashing".
Basically first is to explain why it is not good and second is to tell "you are wrong" with no explanation except pointing fingers and using overused "troll" thing :)

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Cheer up, ZogG. Please note that the ranks of uncritical supporters who would let Jolla get away with murder are finally beginning to shrink. I believe this is a good thing: unlike JulmaHerra, I believe the unbridled arse-lickery unconditional support is much more damaging than constructive criticism.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

I touched upon this a couple of weeks ago. I have given it a few more thoughts and concluded that the "proof of concept" theory must be right and all the core apps like Phone, Messages, People, Gallery... are nothing more than a tick in the box. They have to include them to be able to sell the device as a phone at all, but they did not bother giving them a grain of attention more than what was the absolute minimum to be able to say they are there. Presumably because they consider those things secondary, to be ultimately implemented by the licensing partners they are hoping to get. Licensing partners whose primary expertise is mobile communication.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

In certain cases yes, mostly because if you brick your phone repeatedly on purpose, it's not manufacturers responsibility to fix it for free under warranty. You still have quite much freedom to tinker in developer mode without fear of losing warranty (at least I didn't). Warning is there to remind that via developer mode you have access to things that can potentially brick or ruin your phone. So no, it's not the same.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Perhaps. However, community doesn't own or run Jolla, so community will never be the one calling the shots in company. The ones who invested their money in it do and have the last word on what is implemented and when. In that regard the way of simply bash until you get what you want the way you want only to continue bashing on some other thing and of course reminding how long it took to implement feature X you wanted to be there when the world was created doesn't look like good alternative to me. But of course if you really believe that it advances some purpose, by all means continue to do it (I'm sure you will). Personally I think this will be my last contribution here, as it's clearly evident that only negative remarks are welcome here and others are regarded as *** licking *****s. So enjoy the ride.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

As far as I know I can modify everthing on my device unless it's HW and the warranty still covers it. There was some discussion about that some time ago, cannot find that though.


I have to say in honesty I do not know how iOS devicees behave there, but at least Apple has the possibility to ban them from the store, just like chipped PS3's and xBoxen are banned fron the network. Or at least tried to :D

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Sorry, that expression was meant as poking fun at white calling grey black, but it came out worse than intended. I updated my post.

Still, I don't think that your referring to well-meant criticism as "bashing" and "doom and gloom" is justified.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Not sure if you would see it, but whole point of TMO and Maemo community was about community, as Jolla not directly but somehow got from here (mer was developed here btw) and as the first users they targeted were from here. The phones preorders and tablet preorders were made by community, so community actually invested. in addition the unlikeliness of Jolla was about openness(this word is used a lot by their PR with opensource btw, which is not 100% true) and about community, that's how they got a lot of people involved, including me ordering from first wave of phones.
And as of features and exact UI parts, I said my opinions, but I never talked too much about them, except few parts(like themes and other halfs that were main features and now gone and that it's now more and more looks like android). What I'm talking is about the politics, communication, promisses they give and not keep. The general and important things in their "growing" which I think as community — now is main source of applications and most money(preorders) — should be heard and opinion should be considered.
Simple example is that they want developers to develop and there was a lot of noise around it, but no paid apps, not all APIs, not much effort is there.
If you look in general, where is main effort of Jolla? Software would you say? OS? But they did not publish a lot of apps. They do have updates (btw once they said it would be monthly, than 3 months and now how many updates we have?), but they are slow and some of them still have really annoying bugs that are not fixed release after release. After few years we have 2.0 and how many things where changed, few UI changes and few features in how many years? If you take Nokia N9 that had only 3 updates the difference between each one had longer changelog(all libs updates and stuff that Jolla includes even was not included in those changelogs).
So where exactly they put their effort? Pasted a long time and we do not see any real progress.
Edit:
Btw just coz of this mist and silence most people do not pay attention, but a lot of top people from Jolla left and few great devs, which should already be an alarming, but you will never know as Jolla keeps everything under the shadows

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Look, no imaginary-living-under-the-bridge-creature will break the illusion, we get that, but...

Can we get back on topic though??? Pretty please?

Definition of wet(ness) (from http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wet):

I hope that all agree that water consists of water. What is problematic though is: ice does not consist of liquid. So ice is actually dry. Which brings the problematic-even-more question of 'dry ice', would love your input on that

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Interesting! I guess that I disagree with this definition. There are, in fact, liquids which do not provoke the "wetness" sensation when touched. Take, for example, liquid mercury. At room temperature and one atmosphere of pressure, this substance exists in liquid form, but is far more strongly cohesive than water. As such, it will not spread to cover surfaces in the same manner water does. It also does not evaporate (and therefore provide a cooling effect) in the same manner as water.

So, if you place a drop of liquid mercury on your skin, are you now "wet"? Perhaps more importantly, would you feel wet?

I would argue there is a more complex set of factors involved in the concept of wetness, particularly in terms of human sensations. A definition that simply states "liquid" == "wet" is, in my opinion, straying too far from standard usage of the term. (I should note, this line of reasoning was already put forward in nieldk's argument.)

Ah, I see no need to stray into other phases of matter here. :) (Of course, solid carbon dioxide is called "dry ice" simply because it cannot maintain a liquid form at one atmosphere of pressure, and therefore sublimates directly from solid to gas phase, but that's neither here nor there. ;) )

EDIT: Hey, I never noticed, but Wikipedia actually has an entire (and amazingly in-depth!) entry on "wetting". I do like their definition of the subject (although it also strays away from the more intuitive definition based on human sensations):

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Is wetness a sensation? If so then I've been wrong all my life. I always thought that wetness is a condition. A road after the rain is wet even though it does not feel anything, with or without any observers.

Regarding (water) ice, of course ice and snow can be wet or dry, depending on how much liquid water it contains or is in contact with. This is usually a function of temperature and other atmospheric factors.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

This really is a fascinating discussion. Thanks gerbick! It really got me thinking and I thought I had figured it out but now I'm even more confused.

The OED's definition of wet:

Based on that definition I deduced the following:

Thinking on a molecular level, I would say that a single, isolated H2O molecule is dry but if it comes into contact with another H2O molecule then that contact would mean that both molecules make each other wet.

Now when talking about a body of water, we can still think of it on a molecular level meaning the same applies therefore the body of water is wet, however due to language usage, it can also be thought of as a single abstract body and in that case it would be perfectly valid to consider the single body of water to be dry.

Then I thought about it a bit more and it raised all sorts of questions which I could not answer. Unlike solids, the molecules of a liquid are loosely coupled. If there are only two molecules and they touch, does that make them a solid? In that case they would not be wet. Is there a minimum number of molecules required to define them as a liquid? How do you define "coming into contact"? As we're talking about liquids, the molecules probably don't need to touch to "come into contact". Is there a maximum distance between molecules that defines them to be a liquid and not a gas?

Any chemists here? Oh wait, maybe our illustrious admin can help? :p

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

And how do you define two molecules "touching" anyway?

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Sex
Which in terms, make you wet

Correction to self:

Makes you moist, and FEEL wet

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Waiting for the tablet slowly turns out to be fun - thanks to this thread.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

This thread is making me hydrophobic!

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Well I have to say I haven't read the thread fully but from 4 words that I saw there is a debate about touching and thus this video needs to be seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE8rkG9Dw4s

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Ah, this video is totally bogus. Here's the problem: when you say that the electrons surrounding two atoms push each other away (via the electromagnetic force), and that therefore two surfaces can never actually touch one another because their electrons keep them apart, I must ask: then what is the actual surface of an object?

Electrons themselves don't really have a surface (at least in the way we would think of it), and an "electron shell" is a very fuzzy concept as well. Neither of these serve well when trying to define the surface of an object. In actual fact, the only truly useful definition for the "surface" of a physical atomic structure, in terms of how it interacts with other physical structures, is the electromagnetic boundary surrounding that structure.

In short, don't believe this guy. :) When two surfaces touch one another, they really do touch. There's no other good way to describe the phenomenon. :)

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Well, in physics then, if a surface doesn't exist, simply due to the fact that everything is made together from molecules, atoms, neutrons et all. And since those are all physical elements. Then objects can't really touch.
But, no, it is not so. In particle accelerators atoms are indeed not only touching each others. But banging together in a massive explosive orgasm.
So yes, that video is ********. Even though kinda fun.
Much more fun than the wait. Which seems to have extended once again.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Dear Sir, may I have your kind permission to use that quote in my signature?

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Be my guest :)
!(c) reserved he he

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Er, well, sort of. :) The electromagnetic force between two electrons pushes them apart, but if you apply enough force, you can overcome this repulsion. Doing so, you can get past the electrons, and force the cores of the atoms closer together. Of course, then you've got protons pushing each other apart, and their push is even stronger; but, again, with enough force, you can get past that. At this point, you get to atomic cores interacting directly with one another, and now things get really messy. :)

But yeah, in any case, particle accelerators do more than make atoms touch one another, they get atoms all mixed up with one another. (Thus the other common term for a particle accelerator is an "Atom Smasher". :) )

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Well, I used to be a chemist in an earlier part of my career. In addition to the wikipedia link about wetting that was posted above, I recall that in the lab we used substances called "wetting agents" that helped ensure that a liquid covered a surface rather than forming drops on it. Those liquids were not always water of course: they could be a variety of organic solvents, which you may encounter in daily life as things like nail varnish remover.

Here is a link from Chemwiki: http://chemwiki.ucdavis.edu/Physical...Wetting_Agents

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Doesn't that fit the definition of 'massive explosive orgasm'? ;)

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Wow, I've gotta say that your understanding of an orgasm seems way, way more painful than mine. ;) (I guess everybody has different tastes, though... ;) )

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Another thing occurred to me just now, given this thread's title and the current topic (and to gently and inconspicuously take readers' attention away from orgasms)...

Can the Jolla tablet get wet?

https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=...tablet.jpg&f=1

At the current rate of delivery, we may never know...

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Correct. It is not a matter of physics but a matter of language, isn't it? :)

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

My reply will be another video :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKldI-XGHIw

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Yes! A much better description of what is going on here. :)

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

What is the reason for failing the November wave. No parts no factory no money? Any progress done at all? December wave in jeopardy? Thatsbthe Intel I want.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

It got wet.

C'mon, Dave, it's only the tenth. You have 20 more days before the end of November.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Stop being such a Cop. It doesn't suit you. ;)

Edit: Now this has become a tread in my taste :D GJ every one!

How do you know that your "wet" is the same as my "wet"...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evQsOFQju08

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

The answer to everything in life apparently isn't 46

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Wouldn't that be because the answer is actually 42? ;)

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Ah. But, then I was right ;)

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

It starts to seem there will be only one wave, December one. It would be nice if Jolla could tell us more this week where they are going with the tablets. The last official status update was a month ago.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

I believe it is because the parts of the tablet just learned that they never can get in touch with each other

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Guess what? there is no news at http://blog.jolla.com