Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I would really like to hear the basis of that statement.

Oh wait! There is no basis. Just another "claim" that you've said like 98698 times like a broken record.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Have you tried any of the new Lumias?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Here is what one of the people in this forum said to me:

"Never thought it would come to this but I have used my black Lumia 720 now for one week and am extremely impressed!
Owned 2 N9's (first one for almost 2 years now) before but find the simplicity of the Lumia awesome. The battery life easely doubles that of the N9 and that, together with the Gorilla glass 2 were the deciding factors.
I am writing this as a PM as I know the Maemo/MeeGo community keeps on ridiculing Nokia's move to Windows.
As I am not a gamer the so-called shortage of apps doesn't worry me as all the really useful ones are available.
Enough for now, I don't have to convince you right?"

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I have no problem with that, it's just nice that people find the Lumia devices worthwhile. The main reason for snappines among some TMO users is that it replaced the one that we'd liked to see continue.

As for myself, I agree to the statement above that lack of apps is not relevant. Apps are secondary, I only use about 10 applications together and that's fine.

Lumias are OK for people who just need a simple phone that works for them, but I have a bit different needs so I just would not find one useful :D

On the other hand, I just bought a 520 for my son, and he's quite happy with it even as he'd wanted to have an android device in the first place (and mostly because most of his schoolmates have android phones)
However he's also got a Nexus7 for gaming etc. so the Lumia suits his phone needs well.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Faster processors run at higher voltages and the relationship between voltage and power consumption isn't linear it's squared, i.e. a 1GHz processor doesn't use twice as much energy as a 500MHz processor, it uses four times as much. You can mitigate this increased power consumption by going multicore, i.e if you have a 2 x 500MHz dual core processor you are only using twice the power not four times as much. Because multicore processors can do multiple things concurrently you get back to reduced power mode quicker too. This is why we are seeing more and more cores being used.

The Lumia 720 had a 1GHz dual core processor whereas the N9 had a 1GHz single core processor. On top of that the N9 only had a 1450 mAh battery whereas the 720 had a 2000 mAh battery. It's really quite logical the battery life of the 720 was around twice that of the N9. It had nothing to do with the OS.

Therefore the mystery forum member's 'deciding factors' were entirely to do with NOKIA's hardware improvements between June 2011 and February 2013. Of course they could have made these improvements even sooner but they had to wait an eternity for WP to get multicore support. Do you remember that now, Lumiaman?

Do you remember the stupid things Elop used to say about multicore processors back in the days Windows Phone didn't support them? He's not saying it now is he?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Seriously I suprised people still don't realise that Lumiaman actually is Stephen Elop. No one else believe WP is good choice this days.

So why feed Stephen Elop? Just ignore him. He is here only because he is pissed because his strategy has totally failed. Now he thinks he can convince people at TMO going WP, it is so pathetic....

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I am not sure what your point is. Mine is that Nokia has become more competitive. Not so pre-Elop. N8 and N9 were abominations as compared to competition at the time. The current Lumias are at level playing field now. But unfortunately competition is fierce.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

is a dev kit version of lumia 920 appropriate?

hmm, seems more like you...

this will probably sound stupid but it's actually fun to troll a troll. also it's an "off topic" topic. why ignore the fun while you can have it? :D

how is ~3% more competitive than ~30%?


nope they weren't. in fact they sold more than the lumai devices. and the symbian developer environment was growing day by day before the amazing speeches done by you mr. elop.

but you wouldn't know nothing about symbian operating system and the community since you've never used it.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Gotta ask this, but which playing field? You can try to use analogies if you want, if you like try this... Nokia and the winphone are playing 5 a side soccer and is not really comparible to the international teams.

Just look at the numbers, the competition is not fierce. They are leagues apart!

Here are my honest thoughts... I would have been ok if Nokia had released a winmo/phone. What really irks me and everyone else is the fact that Flop decided to throw ALL of nokias eggs into the winphone basket. He was not just being content with the position of CEO for the worlds largest mobile phone company where they could have kept the established operating systems in their places where they sold well (ageing or project) and continued to promote the winphone side by side even with the intent to phase one out. If you truely beleive that owning 3percent of the global market is a good thing then FFS give me some of what you are smoking please.

Heck, even the old win mobile handsets had a better market share than that long after they bought out winphone.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Yes, it would have been nice to have several baskets, but they were diluting themselves already with too may Symbian variants, than Maemo than Meego....and the last three were going nowhere. There were only two choices, WP or Android. They went WP for many reasons discussed here. Remember: only TWO choices. Symbian in N8 was a disaster and N9 was a nightmare. He rightly chose not to pursue dead OSs

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

windows mobile had 14% of market share back in 2008 which is a duble digit number. also people were neutral to windows devices at those days. if ms improved the pocket pc experience instead of this empty os, they would have come to a way better place in the smartphone world today.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

The hardware is now excellent so why doesn't it sell? You already know the answer:

That's right, Lumiaman, MS are a dead weight dragging NOKIA down. Everything that's good about the Lumias from the hardware to the software (Maps, City Lens, Drive+, etc...) is entirely down to NOKIA. Microsoft's contribution, Windows Phone, is an appalling liability that NOKIA is struggling to overcome.

What would Windows Phone's market share be now if it weren't able to ride on the coat tails of NOKIA's excellent hardware/software? So small the needle wouldn't twitch.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

you persistently try to explain things on your own side which doesn't reflect the truth. same repeated "delusional" reasons made me puke.
that maybe true for the US but for the world, numbers said the exact opposite. they could either continue developing symbian or they could switch to meego which was really exiting the symbian users.
oh wait! how can you know that? you've never been in a symbian community! you've probably never even seen someone using a symbian device isn't that true now mr. elop?


so we are talking about operating systems?
like so many variant's that android has?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Anybody with more than half a brain knew back in February 2011 Windows phone was not a valid choice, the catastrophic collapse NOKIA have suffered as a result of exclusively adopting it was always by far the most likely outcome.

NOKIA had plenty more than two choices, as Samsung has proven, but Elop chose the one path that didn't make any sense whatsoever. The only party that had anything to gain from Elop's strategy was Microsoft.

Do you know what duck typing is, Lumiaman? It's a good rule of thumb for real life too - if something waddles like a duck and quacks like a duck it's most probably a duck. When Elop waddled into NOKIA and started quacking about Windows Phone I instantly knew his plan (including misappropriating NOKIA's patents to benefit Microsoft) and the inevitable outcome for NOKIA too.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Btw. If there is any smart people left at nokia they throw out theyr lowend MIDP based crapos and replace it with:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox_OS and use they swipe skin on top of that instead. Before they loose lowend market too.

But I guess that will not happen as long as Elop exists at Nokia.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I probably bought more Symbian devices than all of you combined on this thread. It served its purpose and by 2009, it was clear to everyone that it had to gooooooooooo...........Only Tomi Ahonen and his delusional followers still believe that it was viable. What saved NOKIA, as opposed to BB, is that they reacted a bit faster to become third player. BB reacted too slow and hanged on its improved, but dead platform. Because you cant live with just an OS, without all the ancillary ecosystem.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

What did Samsung prove? That pre-ELOP NOKIA should have jumped sooner of the Symbian titanic. By the time Elop got there, Android has signed up many device manufacturers and Finns felt they didnt want to be another ME, ME, ME kind of company. Samsung jumped first and is benefitting now. Kudos to them. What else are they doing? Tizen-what a joke. And you know what genius, that is why you will never run anything. Because you dont understand the importance of timing, primacy and being on the cutting edge.

What Elop immediately understood is the following: NOKIA is not a software company, in the sense that they CAN NOT compete with Silicon Valley. And that immediately eliminated Symbian, Meego and all the other lunacies from the table. So you are left with already crowded Android field, or try something new and nascent. Hence WP. Using my Lumia 920 and 620. Great phones!!!

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Not a software company? Nokia was bigger than Samsung and Apple combined when Elop took over - and he was growing unit sales and revenues with Symbian

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Symbian....that was the problem......it was surpassed in 2007 and 2008 by iOS and Android...

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

The hardware is good, but OS needs maturing. Unfortunately when you start on a nascent platform, it will require maturing. The hope here is that MS ecosystem will accelerate success after a certain tipping point. There is no doubt that MS ecosystem has a much greater potential than anything that NOKIA had softwarewise at the time. There is no doubt that MS is much better at software engineering than NOKIA. That is crystal clear.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

As did the millions upon millions of people right across the globe who kept buying them.

NOKIA's software had already severely kicked Windows Mobile's balls. All the good software on the Lumias originates from NOKIA. Microsoft, on the other hand, has a toxic reputation for their software.

You do know Windows Phone 7 was really Windows CE, right? 'New and nascent' :rolleyes:

I'm an executive director and shareholder of a manufacturing company. We've made much more profit than NOKIA in the time Elop has been in charge. I'm also an executive director and shareholder of another company with a portfolio of residential rental properties in the UK. I'm currently contemplating buying a holiday resort in Cornwall too.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

you probably didn't. just bought a crappy 5800 and whine about how symbian is so bad and so ugly and how it should be replaced. on the other hand i've been using symbian handsets since the 7650 days.
so all the numbers are lying is this what you're trying to tell here? nokia was a huge company back in 2010, you came in and simply destroyed the company for the sake of microsoft and windows phone mr. elop.
i don't follow tomi ahonen, in fact i already knew back in 2011 that symbian was a very viable choice as a mid range smartphone os. it could crush android at that area. nokia 603 was a great example for that. but instead of making capable symbian devices mr elop chose to make uncapable dumbphone devices. and now we are seeing the results.

if you are an extreme optimist yeah being a third player with ~3% is a good thing.

The biggest mistake that nokia did. Buying symbian. now people like you come here and badger about how other companies adopted android and how they benefitted.
If tizen successes i will remind you those words.

Yes they can compete. They showed it by dominating the phone world for years. With symbian. If you can't see the fact go jump off a bridge. Some guy stealing their technology and making a touchscreen device will not change that fact.
That's how the "silicon valley" hate symbian. They envy it. They couldn't eliminate it so they sent someone from the inside to do the job. Which cost them at least a couple of billions.

MeeGo was unlucky. Mr elop announced lumai 800 3 months after N9. Bu it still sold more than lumai 800 and 900 combined. Such a shame that you rigged the race and didn't let the clear winner win mr. elop.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Samsung's Bada had a larger market share than Windows Phone until it was discontinued.

Samsung have a Tizen app challenge running at the moment with some substantial prizes available, they have a developer conference coming up in San Francisco in October and their own services, S Cloud, are rumoured to be launching next year.

Although HTML5 is the primary focus Tizen will allow developers to create native applications using the old Bada API.

Huawei and LG are also planning Tizen devices.

Despite a staggering marketing budget being lavished on it by MS, NOKIA and AT&T Windows Phone is still 'very small' (to quote Steve Ballmer), I don't think it will be long until its third place starts coming under pressure from Tizen once the devices start hitting the market.

I imagine NOKIA's engineers will be quietly testing Tizen out on the Lumia hardware too. Elop might not have a plan B but hopefully there are a few individuals within NOKIA who are bright enough to be continually assessing their post-Elop options.

Elop is so disrespectful of the company he's running he's never even learned how to correctly pronounce 'NOKIA'.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Elop didn't kill Symbian during Elopcalypse. Nokia had already decided to kill Symbian before Elop took over. The cancellation of S^4 was the real death date for Symbian. Only the fanbois believed Symbian to have a future after that. S^4 cancellation had been decided few months before Elop took over. He just annouced a decision already made before his time.

S^3 never had the chance to compete and it wasn't even supposed to compete with Android. It was originally just a stop gap before S^4, which was supposed to be modernized version of Symbian. Under the Vanjoki plan, S^4 was cancelled and S^3 was to be used until Meego scaled down to cheap products.

You can blame Elop for killing Meego and (especially) for the idiotic decision to replace Meego with WP7 instead of Android, but he isn't the one to blame for Symbian's death. Besides, Symbian was a walking dead anyway. It needed to be put out of it's misery.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

symbian was definitely going to end but it was not dead. a dead os cannot have nearly 40% of market share?
also it competed with android in most aspects except for the monster hardware which nokia insisted not to put.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

There's very little doubt NOKIA would have phased out Symbian and replaced it with some Linux based alternative(s) but once Qt was running right across all NOKIA's devices who would've noticed and who would've cared?

Carriers would have continued marketing NOKIA phones, users would have carried on buying them and developers would have carried on developing for them. There would have been no 'burning platforms', no huge disruption, no induced collapse, no dumbing-down/locking-down of devices and no association with a toxic third party. On top of that NOKIA would have retained control of their own ecosystem and all revenue from it.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I think you are delusional that Qt across multiple different OSs would have made these devices competitive. Its the same delusion that Android apps will run seamlessly on Jolla. NO WAY. Even Symbian fragmentation posed great problems for developers. Again, you are a fanboy for unclear reason. Not sure where it hurts and why. I hope someone writes a good history of what truly happened inside the four walls of NOKIA and why the decisions were made they were. I bet we know little of the story.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Congrats on being the executioner. Your vision would have killed NOKIA immediately. You may be good at execution, but poor at visions.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Mr. Delusion,
LOL what fragmentation? Same hardware and same os. where is the fragmentation in that? on the other hand android is the true example of fragmentation and guess what they still develop with a burning desire.

also qt did it's job very well with maemo meego and symbian. and now with bb os and tizen.
android apps doesn't have to run seamlessly as long as it saves the day ;)

What truly happened has been written quite alot as a response to your delusions.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Lumiaman outed as paid Microsoft Astroturfer?

A Shill?

http://techrights.org/2013/06/09/reddit-infiltrated/

The glove fits, reusing earlier quotes as facts, reusing non factual posts from other sites as evidence, slipping in statements as if they are facts based on no evidence and then re using them later as evidence, infiltrating developer social networks, Microsoft has even astroturfed using identities of dead people, they are without shame.

Microsoft were undeniably sleazy and apparently nothing has changed if Lumiaman is anything to go by.

Just saying

rgds

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I am glad to see that paranoid schizophrenics inhabit this site. Please take your meds.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Now you saying it was definitely going to end and above you said that it was soooo strong in 2011...dude, to realign yourself takes years, you got to plan fast and ahead of times, Symbian was dead as soon as iOS came out. yes it was selling in third world, but its days were numbered.......get with the program.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

You think Android will let you mooch of their breast for too long....keep dreaming....

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Lumiaman

This message is hidden because Lumiaman is on your ignore list.

hur hur!

rgds

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

My superior vision enabled me to exactly predict the outcome of Elop's ridiculous strategy.

You, on the other hand, have a very long history of backing the wrong horse. From your comments on Windows Phone to your incredulity at the success of the Galaxies.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

They are letting me do it for 4 years now still not so much has changed.
Who is dreaming? Me or you? Think again.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

i said it was going to end correct, in favor of meego smartphones which would be a similar but more simplified, better innovative experience. but i didn't said it was bad or a dead man walking which some people like you wrongly think.
the smartphone subscriptions were growing day by day and there was plenty of room for alternatives like iphone like android etc. symbian didn't lose as much as people thought, simply smartphone numbers grow. compare the numbers of smartphones used today and back in 2007 mr. delusional elop.

please answer me this, if symbian died with iphone, how did it survive to have the most market share up untill 2010-2011 where elop burned the platform? when shares hit rock bottom in one night and never could recover after that hit.
So besides the US everywhere is third world? That's a nice observation from you keep it up.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I dont think you understand much, do you? Symbian was a goner as soon as Android started copycating iOS and licensing it to cheap OEMs who started to flood market. Finns killed Symbian before Elop because they knew it was besieged and losing marketshare everywhere they looked.They kept dropping prices to sell it, and were contemplating frantically what to replace it with. First they looked in house, at Maemo, Meego team, etc. They tried, but clearly it just didnt work out. They had Maemo out in 2009. They should have produced something by 2010, before Elop came. why, because if you are planning, by the time N900 was realeased you should have another device lined up and ready for production. Clearly something was very amiss at NOKIA, since it took them sooo long to make N9. They were changing OSs like a tech whore, unable to come to a conclusion, and they clearly didnt like any of it, hence they went for outsider to shake up the company. Samsung began to align with Android since 2008 and prepared to drop Symbian at the latest in 2009. It takes years for a company to make a turnaround, and that was the problem with NOKIA. They should have weaned themselves of Symbian in 2009, or began to do that.....they tried with meego and maemo and we see the results...bought by few mutants around here...

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Interesting isn't it that Lumiaman keep repeating the same mantra and then is deliberately rude to try to get a rise, typical of an Astroturfer and to feed his ego.

SInce Microsoft started copycating IOS with their attempt at a closed ecosystem, Lumiaman consistently states that is it Android doing the copying even though this has been debunked many times in earlier posts.

Since Elop literally destroyed Symbian and all the great ideas Nokia was exploring such as QT and Maemo, Lumiaman consistently tries to rewrite history by making statements that it was not Elop who destroyed this as if they were facts, no doubt to be regurgitated later, strangely reminiscent of a paid Shill.

Notice also the constant repetition as if this will make it more true, this delusional behaviour is either genuine or someone is paying for it to be continued deliberately. Again typical of a paid Astroturfer.

I am sure that no one wants to "get with your program" Lumiaman and you have been asked many times before to stop being rude, it is offensive.

Please don't.

rgds

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I got my own biographer on this thread!! Yay.. I thought you put me on ignore. The world did ignore you, Meego and Maemo. Keep your head high and march forward. Lumias are here to stay hater.