maemo.org - Talk - N900 - Yes, it sucks.

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- Nokia N900 (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=44)

- - N900 - Yes, it sucks. (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35009)

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iJanne (Post 396015)

I honestly think, without any malice intended, that you should.

Clearly the N900 is not for you.

If Nokia did lowsy on communicating what the N900 is, then that is certainly their problem. I don't think, though, that this is whole truth - much of that misperception has occurred in the public. Also because the N900 is so attractive, a lot of people want it and want to like it - and are disappointed because their expectations were not in line with what the product was and was about.

But that indisputable fact is, the N900 was not intended to be what you are asking of it. It simply was not. If this was missed in the public or in the marketing, then that is a flaw, but N900 is not for you.

Check out the stuff Nokia chose to highlight on their product-page:

http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/

N900 is a bad product for your needs. Nothing wrong in saying that out loud. I knew this buying in, because I read the materials Nokia has put out, I read the roadmap. It is in their internet tablet lineage, not phone, and it has a special place in the Maemo plan.

If this was miscommunicated somewhere, or if Nokia made a unwise move in introducing a device that is bound to cause confusion, those are points to be argued. But you are asking, and disappointed when not, the product to be something it wasn't designed to be.

BTW: This is not to say N900 might have flaws that need fixing and are true flaws (like bugs etc.), but feature-wise it was never intended to be a consumer-ready, full-fledged smartphone.

It would be, but the N900 is not a consumer-space end-user phone. You are asking for things it was not meant to be. Did someone miscommunicate it? Perhaps? That would be a flaw. Is N900 what it is because Nokia is late? Certainly. That is why N900 is the second-to-last step in taking Maemo truly consumer.

But that still stands: it is only the second-to-last step. Not the last step. I don't know why you argue this.

Hi,

Thankyou for a sensible reply! :D ,

Have a look at the demo videos for the maemo UI team on youtube. They are demostrating phone features as much as they are internet tablet features. And nokia have this for sale on their various websites under "phones".

This has been launched as a end user phone capable device.

MB

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MontyBravo (Post 396075)

Nokia also lists the previous tablet Nokia 810 under phones, at least they do on the Finnish website. Clearly that have not differentiated their Internet tablet lineage there as they should... but looking at the product description at maemo.nokia.com for example, highlights only mobile computer features...

I understand (stretching here a little since I still think much of the confusion is caused by people outside Nokia that are positioning the N900 against iPhone) the argument that Nokia has been confusing about this, and that may be their flaw. But I think much of this confusion, also, is circumstancial - people's expectations dictate more than what is actually communicated.

Maybe Nokia would have been wise to splash out their roadmap on the product page too, not sure if that would have made any difference, but the roadmap is in the public and clearly their intent was not a consumer-ready smartphone. We knew this going in.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.

Thusly, I would point my energies at communicating to Nokia and to the community:

1. Why and where the N900 sucks as the mobile computer that it is supposed to be. We need to improve where things are lacking, so that this can be the ultimate mobile computer (with a phone) at the moment.

2. How the N900s successors should be improved to make them truly consumer-ready smartphones for the consumer space. Also, as byproduct, ask that such software features be rolled back into the N900 as an added bonus - and a way to advance all things Maemo.

That would seem like a reasonable, constructive way to approach this, in my opinion.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 395034)

You're obviously upset about being called a fanboy.

I am upset about calling me what I am not. And not just a fanboy, but also fanatic, piranha, and more. If I called you a troll for example, wouldn't you be upset (that's of course assuming that you aren't one, which I am no longer sure about)?

It's really interesting that after I published my N900 preview (which got over 400.000 page impressions) all comments I got (also on this forum) were saying that the preview was highly objective, informative and well balanced. No one called me a fanboy or Nokia fanatic.

Then suddenly you come and call me a fanatic fanboy, and that's only because I stated that I do not have the "random reboot" issue a handful of other people are having, and I don't consider the "scrolling issue" a major problem as IE on my Core i7 / Nvidia 9500 GT / 4 GB triple-channel DDR3 PC actually scrolls LESS smoothly than that.

Quote:

Look at how you're acting... overly emphatic about something that you're only a customer about and defending a stance based on only one (read: your) account.

I'm just describing MY experiences with the device. If you only expect people to COMPLAIN and you don't accept that one can be SATISFIED with a product then it is YOUR problem, and not mine.

"Defending a stance based on only one (read: your) account"? Now, this couldn't be more funny. Whose experiences I am supposed to express? Someone elses, not my own ones? And I am not defending anything, just STATING facts about how my N900 works.

As I said, I acknowledge that several people have this issue and I am sorry about it. But I will not join their complaints for the most simple and obvious reason being that I DON'T have that issue myself. And that for THREE MONTHS now and even on the early prototype I had before.

Quote:

If you can't take words like piranhas, fanboy, et al and have to resort to sheer anger, perhaps you need to remove your feelings and communicate civilly.

Sheer anger? I already suggested you to visit eye doctor, didn't I?

Regarding your fanboys and fanatics, I will take that WHEN DESERVED. I will NOT take it for just coming here and stating that I don't have the issues a handful of people have and I don't consider the (alleged) scrolling issue a problem *for me*.

Quote:

I expect nothing from you... but I sure as heck will ask the questions about people having issues because they're going to give me the insight if my purchase will be worth it or not. The happy customers are equally important, but if problems remain unresolved, I'm not buying.

If your intention is to have a well balanced opinion about the device, you should treat BOTH positive and negative opinions about it EQUALLY seriously. Yet for you only negative opinions seem to be reliable, while positive opinions make one a fanatic fanboy.

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Seems like this community is interested in helping folks... mostly.

And you expect me to help those having issues HOW? By starting to complain about issues I do NOT have?

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But you're a part of an open source community which means that if you know how to code, you can fix things.

And so are you. So why don't you start fixing the bug instead of expecting others to do it.

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Makes you a passionate customer.

That's very interesting. I didn't know that I am a passionate customer of manufacturers of shoes, toilet paper and toothbrushes, which I also don't have serious issues with, and thus, when asked, I state that they work well for me.

Quote:

And you now possess my e-mail. Feel free to send me a note when you post your review. I'd be interested to read it.

If you want to read it, just check my website from time to time. No offence, but emailing you about it is at the very bottom of the list of things I consider important to do.

Quote:

I'm not saying you've ignored those people, it just seems like talking about those things instead of talking about the positive points is going on way too much around here.

I am simply expressing my experiences. What does not bother me, simply doesn't, and I won't be saying otherwise just because it is now more fashionable to bash than to express satisfaction.

Quote:

I've been rather vocal about the shortcomings of the iPhone. I simply cannot go to another phone with a new set of similar problems I've had to endure - No MMS, a few UI inconsistencies, random reboots

And I really can't help you with confirming to you that the N900 randomly reboots like crazy, if mine doesn't.

Quote:

If it upset you, perhaps you need to view why.

I know perfectly clear what upsets me about you: your inability to accept that not everyone has to have the issues a handful of people have, and your inability to understand that if I don't have the issue then I say I don't have it. And also your inability to accept that while that slight scrolling unsmoothness may make some consider the N900 a "garbage" and "cr*p", others may consider it the least important thing on this planet.

Quote:

I was defending the spread of some information

Yeah, and I was disturbing the spread of that information, right? How? Did I remove posts of those who complain? Did I ban them or something?

No, I just wrote that I don't have the issues they have.

If that in your opinion prevents the spread of some information then what can I say. I'm speechless.

Quote:

the true issues and others with similar issues would come forth perhaps.

"True issues"... so, in your opinion, only those who have the issue are true, and those who don't have the issue (and dare to say it) are untrue... Now, that's a very interesting approach.

Quote:

You wanted my information so you could send me very colorfol metaphors (paraphrase) when all I've stated were: fanboys, piranhas. Two words led to anger, a seemingly threatening tone

I don't know where you see the anger, while the only thing I told you was that if you want this discussion to get personal and involve name calling then maybe we should switch to private correspondence where I'll happily repay your invectives.

And YES, I do consider calling me a fanatic fanboy and a piranha offending, if all I did was saying that I don't have issues some other people have.

And the way you consider disagreeing with you "sheer anger" while you're incapable to understand that calling others "fanatic fanboys" and "piranhas" is plainly offending and boorish, makes this discussion completely POINTLESS.

Quote:

If anything, typing in all caps online is considered "shouting".

If anything, calling your interlocutors fanatics, fanboys and piranhas is considered boorish.

Quote:

Asking a person for their personal data so you can share your wealth of "colorful verbiage" (another paraphrase) is a threat.

I *never* asked you for personal data. *All* I wrote, was a suggestion to switch to private correspondence if you want this discussion to be personal. Scroll a couple of posts back and check. Apparently it's not just eyesight issues you have but also memory problems.

Furthermore, by "private correspondence" I meant using the "Private Messaging" feature of this board, which has nothing to do with your email. If you don't know such a feature exist, maybe you should get more familiar with this board's functionality.

Quote:

And I've maintained a very calm demeanor and yet the fuss is all about two words and not what I'm talking about instead...

For two days in your posts addressed to me you are not talking about ANYTHING related to N900, but you only keep PATRONIZING and ADMONISHING me, and giving me lessons of how you are entitled to call me a fanatic and piranha for daring to come here and saying that I don't have the issues those guys have, and how disagreeing with that by me is "sheer anger".

Quote:

that's misdirection due to perceived anger from you.

I wish your perception worked bi-directionally and you were also capable of perceiving when YOU start spurting with anger and calling your interlocutors piranhas, fanatics, fanboys and such. Sadly, your perception works in just one direction, and with out-of-tune sensitivity.

Quote:

I'd rather discuss what the findings are. I have no need to discuss personal feelings or feel threatened.

So WHY DON'T YOU and instead for two days you've been producing all these personal squabbles? I already suggested you to stop, as there's actually NOTHING to further talk about between us, but you just can't finish moaning about me.

Quote:

That's not what this community is about...

Right, it isn't. So why don't you just stop.

Quote:

I'm done.

I deeply hope so.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MontyBravo (Post 395984)

If and end user is not happy with a device, this is resnoble. Look im not interested in arguing with "fans" of the device who will love it no matter what.

Quote:

I am talking about standard no programming end users which will pick up the device and have expectations based on the marketing and other nokia devices they have used.

I hate to insist but can you give me an example what actually is missing and wrong with the phone. I assume you already have the phone and you have used it and found it not suitable for you, and that your opinions are not based only on some youtube videos.

Quote:

They may well be processing firmware updates which would have explained the month + delay after the inital test review units.

I'm sure about that, but you have to understand that the units that are now appearing to the end users have been manufactured already few weeks ago even a month. The fw on the phones is from week 42 as far as I know - some may be a later version we'l know when people get the phones. There's always something to fix, but there's also a point when you have to say "it's enough ship it".

Quote:

Its just the basic stuff that nokia phones have had for years which the n900 does not have. Google maps, an office application which allows you to edit , decent email support which works correctly.

Should Nokia have waited for Google to release Maemo version of Maps? Very few Nokia phones have office program installed, for reading yes, but not editing.

Other problems you mention I don't know, and when you refuse to give specific examples I can't even sympathize on your problems.

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Being able to backup all content on the device easily and restore without crashes e.t.c.

I had the impression that making backups is as easy as copying data from the device?

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I know this will just start another arguments with a bunch of fanboys but its a fair comment as an end user.

Sure it is, but not very convincing. Referring to "problems", inability to do something, "not working properly" are too vague to get proper understanding what needs to be fixed to make the device better for you for example. Have you experienced all this yourself, or have you just gotten the information from somewhere else, an if yes from where (so I could read those complaints myself)

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arpa (Post 396386)

Sure I understand that, but do you think you could point me some recent reviews where end users express their dissatisfaction with the device. As I haven't bought it yet myself I'm interested about different opinions of it. What I'm not interested that much is hearsay and vague remarks on "end user unhappiness"

I hate to insist but can you give me an example what actually is missing and wrong with the phone. I assume you already have the phone and you have used it and found it not suitable for you, and that your opinions are not based only on some youtube videos.

I'm sure about that, but you have to understand that the units that are now appearing to the end users have been manufactured already few weeks ago even a month. The fw on the phones is from week 42 as far as I know - some may be a later version we'l know when people get the phones. There's always something to fix, but there's also a point when you have to say "it's enough ship it".

Should Nokia have waited for Google to release Maemo version of Maps? Very few Nokia phones have office program installed, for reading yes, but not editing.

Other problems you mention I don't know, and when you refuse to give specific examples I can't even sympathize on your problems.

I had the impression that making backups is as easy as copying data from the device?

Sure it is, but not very convincing. Referring to "problems", inability to do something, "not working properly" are too vague to get proper understanding what needs to be fixed to make the device better for you for example. Have you experienced all this yourself, or have you just gotten the information from somewhere else, an if yes from where (so I could read those complaints myself)

Right, I assume you have not noticed the large number of complaints on this forum with, rebooting , bricked phones, no support for MFE with 2003 only 2004. I simply cannot be bothered to detail all of these separate posts and threads. If you refuse to notice these posts, not my problem.

have a look at this post for an example of missing features listed from an end user.

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35259

I imagine your next point will be , its not a phone, its ok the community will sort this out. For my hard earned case I do not expect to have to wait for basic features to be on a device and for the community to fix this.

No I do not own one, friend does, have used it, looks great, lots missing, and it rebooted on him as he was showing me a demo of it.

They have held the stock, there must be a reason for this. I doubt it is just they underestimated the volume of orders, after all the interest and pre orders were high.

Most nokia phones (high end/midrange) have software for document editing (yes it does cost money as do apps in most app stores for phones). N900, not an option full stop.

MB

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iJanne (Post 396104)

1) As a computer, the N900 sucks because it is too slow, too limited, and the screen is too small for anything but web browsing. As a successor to the N810, it's fine, but the N810 is basically a PDA. My N810 replaced an old Palm TX and, besides the faster processor and better screen, doesn't have any more capabilities.

If Nokia wishes to release a mobile computer, Nokia (not the Maemo community) needs to, at a minimum, upgrade the processor, put Firefox (not just Fennec), OpenOffice, Java, and the current Adobe Flash on the device out of the box, and increase the screen to at least 4.5 inches.

2) As a smartphone, Nokia needs to produce a device that, out of the box, does everything that both the iPhone and Droid both do and, ideally, it should do everything either the iPhone and Droid do. Actually, since the device will not be available for some time, it will have to do what the equivalent devices do at the time it is released.

Again, this needs to be out of the box. Consumers don't need or want to be told that some open source developer is working on it. They expect that the manufacturer will provide it.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.

Think that the n900 should scroll smoothly no matter what?
Then have a look at this post and tell me that your computer can scroll that page prefectly smoothly.

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...703#post396703

Heavy images and such will slow it all down.
I'm not using a slow machine either, core2 duo T8100 2.3GHz w/3MB cache, 3gig ram, radeon HD3470 (ok not a blisteringly fast grfx card but if it can run bio shock then can handle the net fine!) running win7 pro.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotTheMessiah (Post 396724)

huh?
is that supposed to not scroll smoothly?
the image scrolls perfectly smooth on my system (samsung laptop with 2,4 ghz dualcore, 4gb ram and gf 9600m)

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.

Quote:

huh?
is that supposed to not scroll smoothly?
the image scrolls perfectly smooth on my system (samsung laptop with 2,4 ghz dualcore, 4gb ram and gf 9600m)

I think you have a better graphics card than my laptop. I dare say if i tried it on my desktop machine with the 8800GTS 640MB card it'd be fine. My point is tho that if i reasonable spec laptop can give choppy scrolling on a heavy image then you'd have to give the n900 a little bit of room in the matter.