maemo.org - Talk
Page 48 of 57 « First 384647 48 4950 Last »
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)
-   Off Topic (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=19)
-   -   Let's talk Nokia stock! (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=56370)

specc 2012-07-19 11:04
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by switch-hitter (Post 1239635)
Why would anyone assume WP8 is going to be a success anyway? Wasn't Mango supposed to be a game changer before that came out? It's always the next iteration that's going to change everything isn't it?

And let's face it in the unlikely circumstance WP8 does become a success in 2013 Samsung will just ramp up their production of WP8 devices. By that time NOKIA will be so small comparatively they simply will not be able to compete with Samsung's economies of scale.

Anybody that says NOKIA didn't have an option except to walk this path only has to look at Samsung to know that's not true. You only have to go back to early 2010 and, in terms of smartphone sales, Samsung were smaller than HTC never mind NOKIA. Now look at them towering above NOKIA who were by far the biggest back then. Samsung are announcing a record breaking quarter whilst NOKIA crash and burn. NOKIA painted themselves into a corner whilst Samsung kept all options open.

Exclusively adopting a low-functioning OS that had already proven to be a failure for at least three other major manufacturers was never likely to be a winning strategy and NOKIA's resulting crash is not the least bit surprising.

There's very little NOKIA can do to turn it around either now, their hardware is still good but they've lumbered themselves with an OS that most people just don't seem to want.
True, but there has been written lots and lots about WP7 vs WP8. I don't have the sources here right now, but in essence it's like this: Almost immediately after the launch of WP7 the development of the OS stagnated. Lots of smaller improvements have come, but none that truly fixes the core problems of the OS. Those problems are tied to the lack of security in CE, and cannot be fixed without a complete redo of the entire OS. That redo would result in a NT type of OS, so the answer was given - use NT instead. So the focus shifted from WP7 to WP8 almost immediately after the launch and increased in power when Nokia came.

But WP8 was far into the future when Nokia came. Way too far for Nokia to wait. So they decided to use WP7 as a stop gap, and to build up and strengthen the ecosystem throughout the entire world. The Lumia series hasn't exactly been a success, but the ecosystem-building has. Everything is ready for the launch of WP8. Services in all parts of the world and 100k apps, and everything in time for Windows 8 and the Surface.

Samsung will go at it with full power, that's true, but it is also a big advantage for both MS and Nokia. But Samsung is not that strong. What Samsung got is the Galaxy S3, they got nothing else, nada. Nokia got PureView, and it scares the **** out of anyone.

danramos 2012-07-19 11:11
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by specc (Post 1239692)
True, but there has been written lots and lots about WP7 vs WP8. I don't have the sources here right now, but in essence it's like this: Almost immediately after the launch of WP7 the development of the OS stagnated. Lots of smaller improvements have come, but none that truly fixes the core problems of the OS. Those problems are tied to the lack of security in CE, and cannot be fixed without a complete redo of the entire OS. That redo would result in a NT type of OS, so the answer was given - use NT instead. So the focus shifted from WP7 to WP8 almost immediately after the launch and increased in power when Nokia came.

But WP8 was far into the future when Nokia came. Way too far for Nokia to wait. So they decided to use WP7 as a stop gap, and to build up and strengthen the ecosystem throughout the entire world. The Lumia series hasn't exactly been a success, but the ecosystem-building has. Everything is ready for the launch of WP8. Services in all parts of the world and 100k apps, and everything in time for Windows 8 and the Surface.

Samsung will go at it with full power, that's true, but it is also a big advantage for both MS and Nokia. But Samsung is not that strong. What Samsung got is the Galaxy S3, they got nothing else, nada. Nokia got PureView, and it scares the **** out of anyone.
Can you please point out where you're getting these impressions, statistics and "facts" that you keep throwing at us without any consideration to citing sources/stats? I'm pretty certain your earlier '95%' statistic was made up... and now you're saying PureView scares "anyone" but you won't point out any source for these claims. I'm not getting the impression that anyone is scared--based on the general LACK of news and chatter around it, I get the impression that most barely know about the PureView. Please show us where you're getting these impressions, since they seem to run counter to the opinions and citations throughout this thread.

Cue 2012-07-19 11:28
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by specc (Post 1239692)
Samsung will go at it with full power, that's true, but it is also a big advantage for both MS and Nokia. But Samsung is not that strong. What Samsung got is the Galaxy S3, they got nothing else, nada. Nokia got PureView, and it scares the **** out of anyone.
You are completely delusional, Samsung have a Nexus, they dominate the mid-price high-end market with the S2 which still sells better than all Windows phone combined yet alone Nokias, they dominate the ultra low market with their lower Android Brightside/Galaxy Y/Ace and on top of that they sell BADA phones which also outsell all windows phones. According to Nielsen Samsung even top Nokia in WP sales in the US. The market Nokia seems so fixated on.

Just look at the best selling list here and tell me you're still serious.

http://wireless.amazon.com/
http://www.amazon.co.uk/s?ie=UTF8&node=356496011

Dave999 2012-07-19 11:46
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Good news for nokia. The stock is on the move since the Q was not as bad as expected :D YEAH!

http://www.nokia.com/global/about-no...lts---reports/

zwer 2012-07-19 11:47
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
... it still is almost -20% this month, and -50.4% this year... Not so rosy if you ask me.

Dave999 2012-07-19 11:53
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zwer (Post 1239711)
... it still is almost -20% this month, and -50.4% this year... Not so rosy if you ask me.
read the report. Sure the pst is not good, but you can't do anything abut it so look ahead!

878 Million Eur in lose and the cheaper prices on lumia saved the sales. still 300 Million Eur worst the Q2 2011 :D

specc 2012-07-19 12:04
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danramos (Post 1239695)
Can you please point out where you're getting these impressions, statistics and "facts" that you keep throwing at us without any consideration to citing sources/stats? I'm pretty certain your earlier '95%' statistic was made up... and now you're saying PureView scares "anyone" but you won't point out any source for these claims. I'm not getting the impression that anyone is scared--based on the general LACK of news and chatter around it, I get the impression that most barely know about the PureView. Please show us where you're getting these impressions, since they seem to run counter to the opinions and citations throughout this thread.
Try to read something else than US tech blogs. They all point to the same origin anyway, namely Engadget, and or just repeat over and over what the others are saying. But I'm sorry, I don't keep track of everything I read.

But this whole tread, Nokia stock and everything you make out of it, it is so far away from reality you just wouldn't understand. Nokia can function just fine without the stock market, if you believe otherwise you are disillusioned to the point of it's not even funny. Moling, paraciting, whatever. It's childrens play. Nothing here can be taken seriously.

Google can translate, try it. broaden your mind.

NokiaFanatic 2012-07-19 14:13
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
The Nokia Q2 filing is out here if anyone wants to take a look at it - http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/da...-16669_16k.htm

The standout points for me are.

1. All the discussion on smartphones is towards the Windows Phone platform.
2. Symbian sales are apparently "down sharply".
3. There is almost no mention whatsoever about Meego, or the N9, excluding a reference to the canned facility in Ulm pushing R&D costs down.
4. Lumia SHIPPED (correction) 4 million devices for the quarter, whereas total smartphone sales were 10 million devices.
5. The small increase in Windows Phone sales isn't off-setting the collapse in Symbian/Meego smartphone sales.

My inference from the whole report was that Nokia really going to push the coming Windows Phone 8 devices when they get released towards the end of this year. Q4 is going to be make of break for Nokia in that respect. All the eggs are in the Windows Phone basket, and if users don't adopt the Windows Phone 8 platform, then Nokia are going to be in serious trouble.

SamGan 2012-07-19 14:27
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Please note, it is NOT 4 million Lumia sales, it is 4 million Lumia SHIPPED.

Source: http://www.results.nokia.com/results...lts2012Q2e.pdf

On the first page,
Commenting on the Q2 results, Stephen Elop, Nokia CEO, said:

"We shipped four million Lumia Smartphones in Q2,and ..."

Units shipped does not mean units sold so Elop is being very cagey. Units shipped include unsold units, returned units, freebie units like those given to all AT&T employees, bloggers, ball carriers, reviewers and developers.

For U.S. sales Elop is being even more cagey. He says 600,000 units of all devices shipped for N. America. This include dumb phones, Symbian phones, returned units, freebies and covers Canada and Mexico.

If the figures are good why so cagey? My generous estimate is 300,000 Lumia shipped in U.S. and after deducting return units (Lumia 900 has a super-high rate of return with many buyers exchanging their phones 2-3 times) a pathetic figure of only 150,000 Lumia in users' hands.

specc 2012-07-19 14:34
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NokiaFanatic (Post 1239785)
The Nokia Q2 filing is out here if anyone wants to take a look at it - http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/da...-16669_16k.htm

The standout points for me are.

1. All the discussion on smartphones is towards the Windows Phone platform.
2. Symbian sales are apparently "down sharply".
3. There is almost no mention whatsoever about Meego, or the N9, excluding a reference to the canned facility in Ulm pushing R&D costs down.
4. Lumia sales were 4 million devices for the quarter, whereas total smartphone sales were 10 million devices.
5. The small increase in Windows Phone sales isn't off-setting the collapse in Symbian/Meego smartphone sales.

My inference from the whole report was that Nokia really going to push the coming Windows Phone 8 devices when they get released towards the end of this year. Q4 is going to be make of break for Nokia in that respect. All the eggs are in the Windows Phone basket, and if users don't adopt the Windows Phone 8 platform, then Nokia are going to be in serious trouble.
Cool. Not all bad news this time. More here:
http://allaboutwindowsphone.com/news...ued_losses.php

4 million Lumias is not bad (more than 6 in total now). It means WP8 will have a much easier start than one could expect. It's going in the right direction :)

SamGan 2012-07-19 14:44
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by specc (Post 1239622)
This is what is going to happen:
Nokia will launch a WP8 Lumia PureView and become King :D
What makes you fantasize that WP8 will be a success? From what was announced at the WP8 convention there is nothing, I repeat, nothing that is new or cutting edge in WP8. Support for mulit-core processors, higher resolutions, micro-SD card, NFC, better multitasking, HTML 5 support, re-sizable tiles, etc., these are just playing catch up with old versions of ios and Android. Oh yes, GSMArena (the ball carrier for WP) recently announced proudly that WP8 will also have the ability to take screenshots. Are we supposed to be impressed?

Knowing Microsoft, WP8 will be a rushed job with terrible bugs and missing key features because the programmers have no time to put them in. And don't forget it may be given the middle finger by existing WP7 users who have been abandoned just as Windows Mobile users gave WP7 the middle finger after being abandoned earlier.

NokiaFanatic 2012-07-19 14:47
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
http://techcrunch.com/2012/07/19/ceo...a-and-android/
Quote:
Nokia’s Q2 earnings out today reflect the big challenges for the handset maker amid what CEO Stephen Elop calls the “ferocity” of competition from Android and Apple, but here’s a clue to one interesting development: he closed off today’s analyst call with a hint that Nokia will be the first handset maker to produce a smartphone on the future Windows Phone 8 platform from Microsoft.

Asked at the very end of the call if Nokia would make the first phone for Windows Phone 8, Elop would not answer directly, but said: “One signal [of what is coming] is that on the number of occasions when Windows Phone 8 has been demonstrated it has been on a Nokia device. We have a close relationship that is unlike what anyone else has with Microsoft.”

The comments were made in the context of Elop defending Nokia’s relationship with Redmond. Another analyst had pointed out that while it looked from the start like a very cozy friendship, more recently Microsoft has been announcing new products in mobile, seemingly with little regard for Nokia (Surface, anyone?). Steve Ballmer has said as much himself by touting how Microsoft worked with a variety of device makers.

Elop says no way: “We have established a preferred position with Microsoft in partnership — and also contractually,” (last part slightly ominously, IMO). He also noted that in fact Nokia “ourselves have been encouraging others to participate in the Windows Phone ecosystem, which needs energy, investment and hardware work because of the ‘ferocity’ of the competition with Apple and Android.”

And back to that contract: “We have an important relationship and dependency on Windows Phone [but] they have a dependency on us as it relates to the location partnership.” Microsoft uses Nokia location data, which comes in large part from its $8 billion Navteq purchase. These days Nokia’s location division yields very small returns compared to devices (just €283m in net sales on a quarter that saw €7.5bn in total net sales).

Other highlights from the call:

Patents. Elop has said it before and he’s mentioned it here again. The company is losing a lot of money as it continues to shift its product base over to Windows Phone (and hope that eventually lots more consumers bite). So its assets are coming into play big time. The company has a patent portfolio worth about $6 billion will like be used as part of his strategy of “looking at other things to generate cash.” Also included will be more real-estate sales, which you might also read as possible further plant closures.

Confusion/frustration with Windows Phone 8 from Windows Phone 7 users. As you may already know, there is no upgrade path from one generation of the OS to the next. One analyst asked whether Nokia planned to “reward current Lumia purchasers with upgrades” to WP8 handsets to avoid some of that disappointment.

Elop didn’t answer that directly but noted, “Owners of existing devices do have upgrades and updates coming including some WP8 features like the start screen.” He also noted that since the WP8 announcement Nokia has actually noticed an uptick in the activation of Lumia devices.

He also said Nokia will continue to sell WP7 devices even after WP8 gets released and shipped. It will use this, it seems, as part of a segmentation strategy, most likely for targeting emerging markets: “You can achieve lower price points and do things [around] that.”

He also, unsolicited, decided to compare the WP7/WP8 situation to Android. “The last numbers I saw [on Android] were that north of 60 percent of devices sold were three versions older than the current OS. By and large those are not upgradeable, and yet sold the right way, there is clearly some volume. It is not the case that sales change, so we have to manage the cohesion of the platform well.”

On China and Nokia totally losing its leadership there to Android. Elop: “China is a unique market…where subsidized Android devices have gained a lot of momentum [at a time when] we were not in a psoition to offer [competing] devices with subsidies.” He mentioned the Lumia 610 — but frankly trying to stand one device up against a tidal wave of competing models seems to have only worked so far for one handset maker: Apple.

On carriers and the third ecosystem after Apple and Android. “This continues to be a very strong part of the conversation all over the world. In the U.S. for example it’s coming up and it is something we will continue to use going forward.”
Only confirms what most of us have been thinking for the past year.

There is no Plan B.

lma 2012-07-19 14:48
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by specc (Post 1239727)
Nokia can function just fine without the stock market, if you believe otherwise you are disillusioned to the point of it's not even funny.
While bleeding (cash, not market cap!) a gigabuck per quarter and with their credit-worthiness rated as junk?

Dave999 2012-07-19 15:10
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
http://mynokiablog.com/2012/07/18/so...world-goodies/

http://mynokiablog.com/wp-content/up...t-11.37.25.jpg

specc 2012-07-19 15:29
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
He also noted that since the WP8 announcement Nokia has actually noticed an uptick in the activation of Lumia devices.
I have seen this as well. Rather strange. One explanation could be that people don't care because WP7.8 will look exactly like WP8, and work just like WP8, and the added features aren't all that important. Strange anyway, but then again people don't hesitate purchasing Android with a couple of year old OS on it.

specc 2012-07-19 15:35
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lma (Post 1239802)
While bleeding (cash, not market cap!) a gigabuck per quarter and with their credit-worthiness rated as junk?
It's not a good situation to be in, but I see no signs of Nokia pulling the plug, so a bit more slimming, and it will be all OK.

mikecomputing 2012-07-19 16:29
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by switch-hitter (Post 1239635)
Why would anyone assume WP8 is going to be a success anyway? Wasn't Mango supposed to be a game changer before that came out? It's always the next iteration that's going to change everything isn't it?

And let's face it in the unlikely circumstance WP8 does become a success in 2013 Samsung will just ramp up their production of WP8 devices. By that time NOKIA will be so small comparatively they simply will not be able to compete with Samsung's economies of scale.

Anybody that says NOKIA didn't have an option except to walk this path only has to look at Samsung to know that's not true. You only have to go back to early 2010 and, in terms of smartphone sales, Samsung were smaller than HTC never mind NOKIA. Now look at them towering above NOKIA who were by far the biggest back then. Samsung are announcing a record breaking quarter whilst NOKIA crash and burn. NOKIA painted themselves into a corner whilst Samsung kept all options open.

Exclusively adopting a low-functioning OS that had already proven to be a failure for at least three other major manufacturers was never likely to be a winning strategy and NOKIA's resulting crash is not the least bit surprising.

There's very little NOKIA can do to turn it around either now, their hardware is still good but they've lumbered themselves with an OS that most people just don't seem to want.
Yes WP8 itself may very well success because its integrate better with W8 tablets...

BUT that doesn't help a burning Nokia...

gerbick 2012-07-19 16:45
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
WP7 was supposed to help out Nokia. It didn't happen despite them shipping 4 million units.

WP8 is supposed to help out Nokia now. It won't happen mainly due to Microsoft undercutting everybody.

specc 2012-07-19 19:14
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
It's supposed to be some riddle stuff. The QR code takes you to a site and makes graffiti ? Some picture, pureview Lumia? :D

specc 2012-07-19 20:36
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1239865)
WP7 was supposed to help out Nokia. It didn't happen despite them shipping 4 million units.

WP8 is supposed to help out Nokia now. It won't happen mainly due to Microsoft undercutting everybody.
This is very good results. Apple didn't reach 4M per Q before Q1 2009, 1 1/2 year after the launch of the iPhone. Nokia has done it in less than a year with Lumia. In reality only a 3-4 months, some longer some less. The SGS2 has never reached this number in 1 quarter. The SGS3 certainly has though and way beyond.

It could have been better if you only look at the numbers, but realistically could it really? It takes some time to gain traction.

Stock:
Up 7% in NY
Up 12 % in Helsinki

gerbick 2012-07-19 20:45
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by specc (Post 1239956)
This is very good results. Apple didn't reach 4M per Q before Q1 2009, 1 1/2 year after the launch of the iPhone. Nokia has done it in less than a year with Lumia. In reality only a 3-4 months, some longer some less. The SGS2 has never reached this number in 1 quarter. The SGS3 certainly has though and way beyond.

It could have been better if you only look at the numbers, but realistically could it really? It takes some time to gain traction.

Stock:
Up 7% in NY
Up 12 % in Helsinki
They shipped 4 million. Doesn't say sales. And Nokia has had better sales than the original iPhone on more limited phones in the past. Those are now dead in the water.

I'm holding out for the sales reports. WP7 isn't turning them around, it's digging them a deeper hole. Thus the losses they still recorded.

One doesn't help the other. WP7 isn't helping Nokia. Elop isn't helping Nokia. Nokia needs to plot a new path. Right now.

cheve 2012-07-19 21:17
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by specc (Post 1239956)
This is very good results. Apple didn't reach 4M per Q before Q1 2009, 1 1/2 year after the launch of the iPhone. Nokia has done it in less than a year with Lumia. In reality only a 3-4 months, some longer some less. The SGS2 has never reached this number in 1 quarter. The SGS3 certainly has though and way beyond.

It could have been better if you only look at the numbers, but realistically could it really? It takes some time to gain traction.

Stock:
Up 7% in NY
Up 12 % in Helsinki
IMHO, it is traction to death.

Correctly me if I am wrong, Apple was selling their iStuff at $200+/each during their 1Q of introducing the iStuff. Nokia is selling at a lost(by all account) per unit almost right at introduction. Both iStuff and the now WPx may be considered as the 'new' un-proven device at their respective time. How long can Nokia keep on selling these 'popular' WPx phone?

volt 2012-07-19 21:33
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1239710)
Good news for nokia. The stock is on the move since the Q was not as bad as expected :D YEAH!

Oh yes. On the move. $1.85. It has the highest stock price now, since...

MONDAY 1:26 PM.

Two days worth of lowest stock price since two decades ago, all fixed, now it's up to what was a catastrophically low stock price three days ago. That's some Nokia saving stock move rite durr. YEAH!

Lumiaman 2012-07-19 21:52
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
http://www.financialexpress.com/news...g-loss/976683/

overall, the sick patient is turning around. The fever is high, but so is the hope. I am buying more

volt 2012-07-19 21:58
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Oh, you accidentally switched accounts.

Lumiaman 2012-07-19 22:01
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
why are you so negative? Is this how your whole life is?

specc 2012-07-19 22:25
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheve (Post 1239973)
IMHO, it is traction to death.

Correctly me if I am wrong, Apple was selling their iStuff at $200+/each during their 1Q of introducing the iStuff. Nokia is selling at a lost(by all account) per unit almost right at introduction. Both iStuff and the now WPx may be considered as the 'new' un-proven device at their respective time. How long can Nokia keep on selling these 'popular' WPx phone?
We all now Nokia is losing money, that's in the numbers that came today. Let's take one thing at a time.

They sold maybe 3-4k Lumias in the US at no profit, but they sold 3.5M Lumias at profit elsewhere, Europe in particular. IMO they could have cut prices also in Europe, just to get more Lumias out, but they didn't. The reason must be that they have not set up to produce more because they are setting up production for WP8 as well. 6M lumias in the first 6 months of 2012 is a good number, but I'm sure they would like a much better initial response than they got.

Besides you cannot compare US contract prices with off contract prices elsewhere (or on contract prices elsewhere for that matter). In Europe it is normal to pay only a token Euro for a phone on contract, but then you have to pay each month and are locked to the operator. If you pay off contract, you pay the full price of the phone, but are free to use whatever operator you chose. The total sum will be roughly the same, but often the operators push certain phones with heavy cuts, free months of use etc. Whatever, it is the total cost you have to look at, not the contract price.

Right now it looks like the existing Lumia range will be phased out (from the initial markets at least) when WP8 devices are coming. At least the 710, 800 and 900. The 610 will probably go on for a long time (my guess).

Another thing. The numbers today show that Nokia will have 2-3 B Euro at year end. This means they can continue for much longer than the doomsday prophecies here have predicted. With further cuts, this can be extended much more. All in all, the finances seems OK. No bankruptcy anytime soon. There is no sign of Plan B, so Nokia smartphones lives and dies according to how well WP8 will do. The numbers also shows that Nokia still is the largest handset manufacturer in the world. The main point is whatever happens (to existing Lumia sales) from now and until WP8 devices are available really makes no vital difference, not from this day. The ecosystem is up and running, the distribution channels are up and running. More sales will boost the ecosystem of course and more sales is always better, but from Nokias point of view, more sales are not needed to stay alive until WP8 devices comes.

specc 2012-07-19 22:32
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1239959)
They shipped 4 million. Doesn't say sales. And Nokia has had better sales than the original iPhone on more limited phones in the past. Those are now dead in the water.

I'm holding out for the sales reports. WP7 isn't turning them around, it's digging them a deeper hole. Thus the losses they still recorded.

One doesn't help the other. WP7 isn't helping Nokia. Elop isn't helping Nokia. Nokia needs to plot a new path. Right now.
You have to look at the bigger picture. Nokia is doing OK actually (relatively speaking). Lumias are gaining traction as well. Elop has turned the ship, that is what we are witnessing. Nokia is not out of the muddy waters just yet, by no means, but they are on the right course for the first time in years.

olighak 2012-07-19 22:47
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Really? I call b.s.

specc 2012-07-19 23:02
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by olighak (Post 1240021)
Really? I call b.s.
Why? because Elop = Eflop and MS = M$ ?

danramos 2012-07-19 23:02
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by specc (Post 1239727)
Try to read something else than US tech blogs. They all point to the same origin anyway, namely Engadget, and or just repeat over and over what the others are saying. But I'm sorry, I don't keep track of everything I read..
You keep track of supposed statistics but you can't even remember where you've seen them? You DO understand how this might make anyone skeptical of your statements. I've been pretty good about making sure I put links to things whenever I state statistics or facts--US tech blogs and other sources. (You'll note that there is more out there that we've been citing than US tech blogs, right?) I'm sure you can point out where you're reading your so-called facts to help us believe you better--because so far you're not convincing anyone.

Try citing some facts! It'll improve your skills of communication and your credibility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by specc (Post 1240013)
You have to look at the bigger picture. Nokia is doing OK actually (relatively speaking). Lumias are gaining traction as well. Elop has turned the ship, that is what we are witnessing. Nokia is not out of the muddy waters just yet, by no means, but they are on the right course for the first time in years.
Case in point. :) Please explain how ANY of that is true. Meanwhile...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1239710)
Good news for nokia. The stock is on the move since the Q was not as bad as expected :D YEAH!

http://www.nokia.com/global/about-no...lts---reports/
Elsewhere... somebody's eating Nokia's lunch...

Google announces its Q2 2012 earnings, sees 21 percent growth
Google this afternoon announced its Q2 2012 earnings, reporting 21 percent growth year over year for revenue, at $10.96 billion. GAAP net income was listed at $2.79 billion, up from $2.51 billion for the second quarter of 2011.

As of the second quarter, Google reports having $43.1 billion cash and equivalents, and gained about 5,600 employees for the quarter.

Dared 2012-07-20 01:16
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by specc (Post 1240013)
You have to look at the bigger picture. Nokia is doing OK actually (relatively speaking). Lumias are gaining traction as well. Elop has turned the ship, that is what we are witnessing. Nokia is not out of the muddy waters just yet, by no means, but they are on the right course for the first time in years.
Tell me how the Lumia range is gaining traction, given the fact that WP7.5 has now been Osborned by Microsoft? If they're gaining traction then they should sell more in Q3 using your logic.
Oh no, wait, Nokia has said that Q3 will be worse than Q2....what did you say about traction? ;)

Dared 2012-07-20 01:18
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danramos (Post 1240027)
and gained about 5,600 employees for the quarter.
Well at least we now know the ex-Nokians found a new job quickly

gerbick 2012-07-20 01:26
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by specc (Post 1240013)
You have to look at the bigger picture. Nokia is doing OK actually (relatively speaking). Lumias are gaining traction as well. Elop has turned the ship, that is what we are witnessing. Nokia is not out of the muddy waters just yet, by no means, but they are on the right course for the first time in years.
No. You have to only look at the key operative word, shipped.

Atari shipped a few million Atari E.T. cartridges. I'm sure a few million were buried in New Mexico and not sold.

There's a major difference. Nokia is not on the right path, unless that path ends with them bankrupt and out of the market by the time WP8.x is announced.

specc 2012-07-20 05:01
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danramos (Post 1240027)
You keep track of supposed statistics but you can't even remember where you've seen them? You DO understand how this might make anyone skeptical of your statements. I've been pretty good about making sure I put links to things whenever I state statistics or facts--US tech blogs and other sources. (You'll note that there is more out there that we've been citing than US tech blogs, right?) I'm sure you can point out where you're reading your so-called facts to help us believe you better--because so far you're not convincing anyone.

Try citing some facts! It'll improve your skills of communication and your credibility.



Case in point. :) Please explain how ANY of that is true. Meanwhile...



Elsewhere... somebody's eating Nokia's lunch...

Google announces its Q2 2012 earnings, sees 21 percent growth
Google this afternoon announced its Q2 2012 earnings, reporting 21 percent growth year over year for revenue, at $10.96 billion. GAAP net income was listed at $2.79 billion, up from $2.51 billion for the second quarter of 2011.

As of the second quarter, Google reports having $43.1 billion cash and equivalents, and gained about 5,600 employees for the quarter.
Christ, get a life! It's not like this is an exact science for me. It's interesting though and I like to read about how things are evolving. Nokia is particularly interesting due to the sheer drama. But I don't keep a record of things I have read. This doesn't mean I don't remember the essence though. If I remember a site, I usually include it. I have no plan changing that, not even for your sir higness amusement. If you have a problem with that, just put me on ignore.

Besides, for someone who base his opinions on pure feelings, hatred against MS and Elop, you are not even remotely in a position for me to treat you as anything but that. That's no judgement, it's just the way it is.

Regarding Google, good for them. As I have said many times, Google is more like a force of nature than a traditional company. It's hard to see anyone beating them in the foreseeable future. But it's getting awfully crowded there, and very soon it will be no place fir anyone but Google and cheap OEMs.

specc 2012-07-20 05:30
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1240060)
No. You have to only look at the key operative word, shipped.

Atari shipped a few million Atari E.T. cartridges. I'm sure a few million were buried in New Mexico and not sold.

There's a major difference. Nokia is not on the right path, unless that path ends with them bankrupt and out of the market by the time WP8.x is announced.
You have become very 1D and shallow all of a sudden Mr gerbick. Just saying. Nokia will survive no matter what happens to WP8. That is what the numbers tell us. If WP8 is a flop, Nokia will have lost any hope for smartphones for a long time though. WP8 may flop, but it's more likely it won't, because the industry is better off with WP than without. They want WP to become a major player, that includes both operators and device manufacturers. HTC and Huawei are in the same tight spot as Nokia regarding smartphones, although not nearly as dramatic, yet.

specc 2012-07-20 06:22
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dared (Post 1240058)
Tell me how the Lumia range is gaining traction, given the fact that WP7.5 has now been Osborned by Microsoft? If they're gaining traction then they should sell more in Q3 using your logic.
Oh no, wait, Nokia has said that Q3 will be worse than Q2....what did you say about traction? ;)
See http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...postcount=1893

They are selling more, obviously WP is gaining traction, but as to why now and not 3 months ago? Things takes time I guess.

They will probably sell less though because they are shifting manufacturing to WP8. They will produce less.

danramos 2012-07-20 07:12
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by specc (Post 1240102)
See http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...postcount=1893

They are selling more, obviously WP is gaining traction, but as to why now and not 3 months ago? Things takes time I guess.

They will probably sell less though because they are shifting manufacturing to WP8. They will produce less.
And now, my turn.. with citations...

http://img2.statista.com/uploaded/in...s_Deeper_b.jpg

With Windows Phone 8, Microsoft Just Osborned Itself
From the article:
"More likely, it's a tacit acknowledgement that the company's current path on mobile isn't the right answer. To be sure, Windows Mobile needed to go, but Windows Phone isn't working, either. The thinking is that the existing user base, while important and unfortunate to screw over, is still really small. Better to do this now while Microsoft still can, in other words.

Existing Windows Phone 7.5 devices will continue to work with the 100,000 apps already available in Windows Marketplace. And developers writing new Silverlight apps will have Windows Phone 7.5 and Windows Phone 8 customers, as the new version of the OS will continue to run Silverlight apps. But apps developed for Windows Phone 8 specifically won't work on existing phones, which means it won't be long before 7.5 users can no longer update their favorite apps.

A Twitter user who goes by the name of Natasha wrote that Windows Phone fans defending Microsoft's decision to orphan 7.5 reminded her of Stockholm Syndrome. I find that hilarious, and there's probably some truth to that statement. But whether you agree or not, it's clear Microsoft is at a perilous point, and needed to do something, fast."

specc 2012-07-20 07:49
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danramos (Post 1240112)
And now, my turn.. with citations...

http://img2.statista.com/uploaded/in...s_Deeper_b.jpg

With Windows Phone 8, Microsoft Just Osborned Itself
From the article:
"More likely, it's a tacit acknowledgement that the company's current path on mobile isn't the right answer. To be sure, Windows Mobile needed to go, but Windows Phone isn't working, either. The thinking is that the existing user base, while important and unfortunate to screw over, is still really small. Better to do this now while Microsoft still can, in other words.

Existing Windows Phone 7.5 devices will continue to work with the 100,000 apps already available in Windows Marketplace. And developers writing new Silverlight apps will have Windows Phone 7.5 and Windows Phone 8 customers, as the new version of the OS will continue to run Silverlight apps. But apps developed for Windows Phone 8 specifically won't work on existing phones, which means it won't be long before 7.5 users can no longer update their favorite apps.

A Twitter user who goes by the name of Natasha wrote that Windows Phone fans defending Microsoft's decision to orphan 7.5 reminded her of Stockholm Syndrome. I find that hilarious, and there's probably some truth to that statement. But whether you agree or not, it's clear Microsoft is at a perilous point, and needed to do something, fast."
What is this supposed to prove? It's only a rehash of the numbers Nokia themselves ALREADY have published. Open documents for the entire human race to download, and I have already linked to that yesterday. Then they put their own token (edit: and highly subjective and speculative) no brain spin on it. Osborne me here and Osborne me there.

The sales numbers show no sign of the Osborne effect. Strange? Yes I think it is strange, but then it occurred to me, maybe this Osborne effect is way too much exaggerated. Similar to any theoretical mumbo jumbo that doesn't really have any real life effect. Of course, that's it. Because, how else can you explain that Androids with 2.2 sell like hot cakes. That fact cannot be explained if the Osborne effect is included. Clearly the Osborne effect is a load of crap. Nice food for the tech blogs, but no importance in real life.

danramos 2012-07-20 08:21
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by specc (Post 1240118)
What is this supposed to prove? It's only a rehash of the numbers Nokia themselves ALREADY have published. Open documents for the entire human race to download, and I have already linked to that yesterday. Then they put their own token no brain spin on it. Osborne me here and Osborne me there.

The sales numbers show no sign of the Osborne effect. Strange? Yes I think it is strange, but then it occurred to me, maybe this Osborne effect is way too much exaggerated. Similar to any theoretical mumbo jumbo that doesn't really have any real life effect. Of course, that's it. Because, how else can you explain that Androids with 2.2 sell like hot cakes. That fact cannot be explained if the Osborne effect is included. Clearly the Osborne effect is a load of crap. Nice food for the tech blogs, but no importance in real life.
I think you forget that part of the Osborne effect is that you render your current product obsolete with the announcement of the new product. Android 2.2 still runs new applications and updates (as evidenced by the Galaxy Tab 7 I have right here running Android 2.3.5... running NEW applications that might even have features for newer devices). It's not rendered obsolete by the newer products, in the case of Android. Whereas, Windows Phone 8 applications cannot run in Windows Phone 7 and there was not upgrade path from Windows 7.5 devices which already were only JUST got released recently. Gun. Foot. Shoot-BAM!


All times are GMT. The time now is 23:26.
Page 48 of 57 « First 384647 48 4950 Last »
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

vBulletin® Version 3.8.8