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- - Jolla User Experience Thread (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91875)

Mikkosssss

2013-12-17 19:51

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedead1440 (Post 1397820)

Stop whining! This nonsense mobile version thing was invented for incapable devices so don't blame the site if the browser you are using is a POS... I use TMO daily on Firefox for Android with UA expressly set to desktop and it works well so stop spreading untruths of it being a PITA.

Heres another who hates (almost) every mobile site. Many times slow to browse and less stuff.
I browse TMO daily with Opera tablet on N9 and I prefer N9 over desktop.

andreas1

2013-12-17 19:55

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by pir (Post 1397787)

Hi All! Received my Jolla today. Looking very good. Nice work. A lot has to be done, but that was expected.

I am looking forward to the updates (importing contacts (dav) seems te be impossible atm :(. For me at least. ).

Quick question: do you use android whatsapp? Or an other client? What works best? I'd like to go native :D.

Android whatsapp is good enough. You get notifications also, though not integrated to led-system. Videos are not working, but basic stuff does work brilliantly.

pir	2013-12-17 20:02

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by andreas1 (Post 1397827)

Android whatsapp is good enough. You get notifications also, though not integrated to led-system. Videos are not working, but basic stuff does work brilliantly.

cool cool cool.

Now I have to find a way to import my contacts.

mariusmssj

2013-12-17 21:01

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Nokius ‏@Nokius 19m
Looks to me like more Accounts will be there in future #Jolla #SailfishOS

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BbtvjzXIMAEEUOx.jpg

ste-phan

2013-12-17 21:03

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikkosssss (Post 1397826)

Heres another who hates (almost) every mobile site. Many times slow to browse and less stuff.
I browse TMO daily with Opera tablet on N9 and I prefer N9 over desktop.

Count another hater of mobile web sites.

Just as we started to mobe beyond the Web 1.0 640x480 website resolution standard on our 24" screens they needed Mobile web sites (for iPhone).

Only exception of a mobile website I do use is Zoho.com -> their mobile web site is really good so I could do without whining for a mobile email client on N900.

(but the availability of their mobile website gave Zoho the excuse to make their desktop website more bloated to the point browsing full XLS files like before on the N900 became too much a pain)

So far on Sailfish the Firefox browser on virtual Android is the only cure against the plague of mobile web sites.

mikecomputing

2013-12-17 21:04

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedead1440 (Post 1397820)

Oh cmon wakeup! First of the browser in sailfishos IS using gecko. So don't come with garbage about it works better on X/Y browser when facts stand that resoultion IS an issue on mobile phones. And about whining: If someone whines its those people who want even bigger resiolution means even more unreadable content on 4.5" screen.

And about 'desktop based websites works nice on a mobile phone' mm yeah right? Maybe for a teenage geeks who thinks (ohh look my phone is soo cool I can show whatever site on my phone blablabla) even if its not readable for people over 20 years old... But definitivly not good for anyones eyes. You know your eyes getting less good for every year... and the more looking at those mobiles phones this days I am sure our eyes getting even worse faster with all this hiresolution hype going on..

So stop blame me for whining when I tell facts!

NanderK

2013-12-17 21:05

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

There's a difference between wanting mobile sites and appreciating a (full) webpage that has been developed with the mobile user experience in mind. Just saying.

lkravovicz

2013-12-17 21:09

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

All I expect as an "early investor" is a public, properly cared for, bug tracker.

Rauha

2013-12-17 21:16

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by lkravovicz (Post 1397856)

All I expect as an "early investor" is a public, properly cared for, bug tracker.

You should check the Android compatibility app comments on Jolla Shop. Pretty much the least organized bug tracker possible.

Also a really good way to learn finnish words describing despair, destruction and dissapointment. :rolleyes:

mikecomputing

2013-12-17 21:16

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by ste-phan (Post 1397852)

About mobile site: I am not saying shall "replace" what TMO has today but atleast make it better.

Get rid of the left area its just to much info shown in you have to click alot to zoom and so on.

Also try click all those small buttons on TMO like "thanks" or "next" and so on. Now that could be better.

This is NOT to rant at the webadmins and a definitivly not better webdesigner(probadly worse) but continue bury our heads in the sand is just plain wrong. Fact is facts. TMO has never been good for any mobile except maybe N900 with resistive screen and a pen.

Btw. I just wonder how many who actually has tried to POST a message in Jolla phone and edit the trext moving the cursor? It was bad on N9 but even worse now.

bennypr0fane

2013-12-17 21:38

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by lkravovicz (Post 1397856)

All I expect as an "early investor" is a public, properly cared for, bug tracker.

They don't have the time&resources to maintain a public bugtracker right now. there was a pretty official statement saying that it would be useless for them to open a bugtracker because nobody from Jolla would look at it, and everybody would just get more frustrated for not getting the bugs fixed that they reported.

thedead1440

2013-12-17 21:42

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1397861)

Btw. I just wonder how many who actually has tried to POST a message in Jolla phone and edit the trext moving the cursor? It was bad on N9 but even worse now.

Like I said earlier, you are using a crap browser so its not the fault of the site ;) It can be Gecko or WebKit or <insert-flavour-of-the-season> but if the UI isn't integrated well with the engine, its like applying lipstick on a pig :D

I use FF on droid and yet don't have any problems viewing, posting or even moderating the site. I double-click on an area and it zooms in well there unlike what I suspect you are suffering on Jolla's browser which may be similar to the oddities exhibited in qmlmozembed.

Of course everything can be improved upon but its nowhere as bad as you make it out to be just because you have sub-standard tools :D

lkravovicz

2013-12-17 21:46

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by bennypr0fane (Post 1397867)

Yep, "right now" isn't important. Guess to be more accurate, I would expect a public bugtracker to be on the roadmap of real commitments.

Sending bugs down some e-mail blackholes just isn't this person's cup of tea anymore. There's so much inefficiency there, it mostly makes sense to do something else with my life.

lkravovicz

2013-12-17 21:49

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rauha (Post 1397860)

:) OK. I already speak Finnish, guess I can skip it for the language lessons. I'm also not installing the Android layer at all so far. Gives a better feel of exactly what native stuff is missing and how to get along with it.

Silwer

2013-12-17 22:04

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

After I managed to finally install Google Play and many apps from there my frustration regarding Jolla eased a bit... :)

MSameer

2013-12-17 22:05

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by JulmaHerra (Post 1397817)

That was also something I absolutely loved on N9 and N900. Now I have to do with Android-version of Skype, but as far as I know, many of those communication tools in N9 were built on top of one framework to integrate them to unified user experience. Sailfish already has XMPP, but does it have Harmattan-style framework in place already? If it does, it shouldn't be too difficult job to develop many of those tools from Harmattan-versions.

harmattan used telepathy for these things and sailfish uses that too. It should be possible to support more protocols. I cannot comment on what will be supported in the future as this is not my area.

Skype is owned by Microsoft. I can only say that ... ;/

MSameer

2013-12-17 22:07

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by lkravovicz (Post 1397367)

So how do we sync messages off N9

http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...1&postcount=14

MSameer

2013-12-17 22:09

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by wout.martens (Post 1397028)

OK thanks.
They're in NEMO home folder (subfolder Dropbox), normal MP3 songs so no idea why player doesnt index them.

Bug? :-)

tracker will not index all /home/nemo/ subfolders.
Documents, Music, Photos and I cannot recall what else will be indexed.

you can make any subolders under Music/ and put your songs there and it should get indexed.

billranton

2013-12-17 22:25

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

The indexed directories are listed in /home/nemo/.config/user-dirs.dirs

Maybe you can even change them.

Milhouse

2013-12-17 23:15

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by bennypr0fane (Post 1397867)

So instead 50 people report the same bug to an email address (care@jolla.com, developer-care@jolla.com) or send feature requests to info@jolla.com, that someone is supposed to monitor (though most likely isn't)? That's three email addresses, take your pick. Send the same email to all of them, maximise your chance of a response.

There is no visibility of what bugs are already known - or if a solution/workaround is available for a bug - when you use email so the same bugs will be reported over and over and over until they are fixed (if they are ever fixed). Do you really think an email blackhole such as this is a better use of Jolla resources than a public Bugzilla, or a better way of engaging with end users about the problems they are facing with the platform? If so, why doesn't every project use email to report bugs rather than waste time maintaining a bug tracker?

The thing is, the more excuses I hear about Jolla NOT implementing a public Bugzilla, the more I am reminded of the Nokia of old and how they claimed they could only ever manage an internal bug tracker for Harmattan (although they still - no doubt grudgingly - put up a public tracker, but rarely gave it much attention). It might be too early to say this, but some old habits do seem to die hard and sadly this is one of them.

A public bug tracker is a hugely positive way in which to engage with users (customers) and address their problems, concerns and ideas. For a company that claims to be open, it should be a high priority but if it's not even on their to-do list then nothing has really changed, the closed mentality is the same as it ever was, only the name above the door is now different.

I'm here to support Jolla, but it seems they're farking it up already and in a very Nokian-way. The software - as it stands - simply isn't that great (but it's beta, so lets cut it some slack), the hardware is over priced budget specification (but we paid the high price to support the "dream", not to buy top-notch hardware, right?), and their attempts at engaging with their users amounts to nothing more than Twitter and a developers mailing list. It's really pretty sub-standard all around.

It's early days, and maybe Jolla can improve their communication in 2014, but if not I don't fancy their chances. I've sent several bugs through to developer-care@jolla.com and not had a single reply, so if nothing else an unmonitored Bugzilla would at least mean other users can quickly see that a bug is being experienced by others, and learn if there is a solution/workaround, or add their experiences. Sending emails to a blackhole helps nobody.

jsiren

2013-12-17 23:18

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1397861)

Btw. I just wonder how many who actually has tried to POST a message in Jolla phone and edit the trext moving the cursor? It was bad on N9 but even worse now.

I have. It's not easy. It requires zooming in reeeeaaaaaalllly close to get the cursor where you want it. Then the browser tends to very easily zip back out so you're left squinting at your own wisdom in Flyspeck Legal Condensed 1.2 pt...

Besides, when any given web page is fully zoomed out the links tend to be very close together. For a person with ordinary-sized fingers, like me, it's easy to select the wrong link or button by accident.

Also, it sometimes takes several tries to activate a textarea, I don't know why; is it because the touch must be long enough, short enough, just the right length, just the right area (pressure), or do I move my finger too much?

Milhouse

2013-12-17 23:29

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1397861)

Btw. I just wonder how many who actually has tried to POST a message in Jolla phone and edit the trext moving the cursor? It was bad on N9 but even worse now.

Have you tried moving the text insertion point in an Android application - that's even more useless as it doesn't work at all! Move the insertion point to the middle of the text, start deleting and text is still deleted from the end of the line.

strongm

2013-12-17 23:34

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

So - anyone figured out how to synchronise music from Windows 7 media player to the Jolla? More specifically, how to synchronise to the SD card (synchronising to internal memory works fine, but there's only about 11Gb of free space there, and I've got 10Gb of music ...)

Not quite sure what the point of an invisible SD card is.

gerbick

2013-12-18 00:00

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by lkravovicz (Post 1397856)

All I expect as an "early investor" is a public, properly cared for, bug tracker.

What would you suggest? I'm curious.

Leinad

2013-12-18 00:02

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

OMG! i had to use the official WA-client for the first time on Jolla today:
it is so ugly and bad to use and full of lacking features, i really feel bad for the people, who had to use THIS all the time...
we really need some money and a Jolla for Cepi, i was using Whatsup all the time and i love(d) it!

Milhouse

2013-12-18 00:09

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by strongm (Post 1397893)

How do you know when the SD card is even mounted - I've got a 16GB card in mine, but "About Product" still shows 2.1/13.7 so I'm guessing from that it's not been recognised.

Edit: Never mind, have now enabled developer mode and can see the SD card mounted at /run/user/100000/media/sdcard:

Code:

[nemo@jolla .ssh]$ df

Filesystem           1K-blocks      Used Available Use% Mounted on

rootfs                14415852   1595696  12221048  12% /

/dev/mmcblk0p28       14415852   1595696  12221048  12% /

devtmpfs                415336        64    415272   1% /dev

tmpfs                   415852      4896    410956   2% /dev/shm

tmpfs                   415852     16600    399252   4% /run

tmpfs                   415852         0    415852   0% /sys/fs/cgroup

tmpfs                   415852        16    415836   1% /tmp

/dev/mmcblk0p25           8100      4296      3804  54% /persist

/dev/mmcblk0p9           48420      4840     43580  10% /var/systemlog

/dev/mmcblk0p19           8100      4188      3912  52% /drm

/dev/mmcblk0p28       14415852   1595696  12221048  12% /swap

/dev/mmcblk0p18          65488     45408     20080  70% /firmware

/dev/mmcblk0p28       14415852   1595696  12221048  12% /home

tmpfs                   415852         0    415852   0% /mnt/asec

tmpfs                   415852         0    415852   0% /mnt/obb

/dev/mmcblk1p1        15621200         8  15621192   1% /run/user/100000/media/sdcard

Absolutely no way of telling in the UI if you have an SD card mounted, or if it's removed, or how full it is...:)

jsiren

2013-12-18 00:32

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milhouse (Post 1397888)

A public bug tracker is a hugely positive way in which to engage with users (customers) and address their problems, concerns and ideas. For a company that claims to be open, it should be a high priority but if it's not even on their to-do list then nothing has really changed, the closed mentality is the same as it ever was, only the name above the door is now different.

I can sort of agree to both sides of this. Their Zendesk system seems to be getting quite a few requests - my first and latest tickets, submitted 5 days apart, have a difference of 705, and I do believe the numbers are sequential. (No, I didn't submit 705 tickets, one or two people got in between :rolleyes: ) The latest number (yesterday) was over four thousand, so that's more than 50 per employee.

While I understand how a public bugtracker would serve at least the more active part of the community, I can also see how there's likely to be a frantic bugfix frenzy going on, and a feeling of being overwhelmed by bug reports. Of course having these organized would help, but perhaps they don't think they can tie up anybody for the task? As a customer I do hope that they have clear priorities for the upcoming updates, and I also wish to get clear communication.

jsiren

2013-12-18 00:33

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milhouse (Post 1397913)

How do you know when the SD card is even mounted - I've got a 16GB card in mine, but "About Product" still shows 2.1/13.7 so I'm guessing from that it's not been recognised.

Mine read the data that was already on the SD card. I have yet to figure out how to make e.g. the camera store its pictures on the card.

mikecomputing

2013-12-18 00:38

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milhouse (Post 1397891)

could not care less what crap like android or ios do. what I want is a phone doing stuff better, harmattan did go forward being better and sailfishos to but also some regressions that hoppefully will be fixed.

strongm

2013-12-18 00:42

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

That's part of what I mean by invisible.

I know that the Jolla can see the SD card because that's how I copied my N9 contacts over properly (stuck SD card into PC, copied exported VCFs onto SD card, put SD card into Jolla, and then was able to import all contacts from those VCFs - Settings/Apps/People/Import contacts/From File. And I can see it in terminal (or SCP or similar) as /run/user/100000/media/sdcard

mikecomputing

2013-12-18 00:46

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedead1440 (Post 1397869)

most stupid and ignorant answer this week.

and people wonder why TMO is not a place for non geeks....

Kabouik

2013-12-18 00:58

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

I've followed the tutorial to get Play Store working on Sailfish, transfered "system" folder", got root privileges (checked afterwards with whoami), ran the rsync command without any issue, rebooted, installed the .apk files, and yet Play Stores crashes the second I launch it. Anything I did wrong? I ran rsync from Fingerterm on the Jolla itself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1397925)

most stupid and ignorant answer this week.

and people wonder why TMO is not a place for non geeks....

Ah. OK. I would surely ask why so, if I wasn't on your ignore list for reasons I don't really get. :<

jsiren

2013-12-18 01:04

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedead1440 (Post 1397869)

I use FF on droid...

...which has exactly what to do with the Jolla user experience?

Leinad

2013-12-18 01:13

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsiren (Post 1397931)

...which has exactly what to do with the Jolla user experience?

you can use droid-FF on Jolla too :)

zwer	2013-12-18 01:51

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1397861)

Btw. I just wonder how many who actually has tried to POST a message in Jolla phone and edit the trext moving the cursor? It was bad on N9 but even worse now.

The holy grail of text editing on the N9 was that key page with cursors and common auxiliary keyboard buttons that you get on a long press of ABC (Edit) in the number key page of the Swype keyboard. I didn't know it even existed for like the first couple of months and then I incidentally changed to it and started puking rainbows. The only thing it misses are shift / ctrl keys to allow you to easily select words / lines.

I have pretty much given up editing text and posting on forums / blogs on my N9 prior to that 'discovery', especially on pages with limited text entry fields where scrolling to select/change a word would become so frustrating that I couldn't even bother. If Sailfish doesn't have such keypage on their keyboard - they need to add it ASAP (or we need Swype for Sailfish). No matter how precise your digitizer is, sometimes you just cannot beat good ol' key select.

caa	2013-12-18 02:25

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by att (Post 1396330)

See the previous post

64GB microSD cards are actually SDXC cards so they require reformatting to use some other filesystem than exFAT. If I remember correctly some people in this thread have reported that SDXC cards formatted with ext4 work with Jolla.

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before:

The 64GB micro SDXC cards work fine in the Jolla when formatted as standard FAT (i.e. FAT32). The belief that FAT32 is not able to handle such large partitions comes from the fact that the Windows disk format utilities cannot format such large partitions.

However, using the Disk utility in Ubuntu, and formatting as 'FAT' there works fine, and reads correctly on Windows, Jolla, and Ubuntu (and presumably other distros).

(Notice the FAT32 maximum volume size and the note in wikipedia.)

Bundyo

2013-12-18 05:30

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Well, who will use exFAT, if they could format their cards with FAT32...? :)

att	2013-12-18 05:44

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by strongm (Post 1397893)

Here are some help until Jolla can implement a better solution:

http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...postcount=1054
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...postcount=1727

juiceme

2013-12-18 07:21

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaelic (Post 1397649)

Sadly, I'm coming to the same conclusion.

Not a single compared to the N9 that is better or equal on Sailfish. And (as mentioned in previous posts) several crucial stuff missing: MMS, connection to company WIFI, etc.

That's funny as I on the other hand have found out that there's awfully lot more stuff in the repos as was for N9 when it came out...

Granted that I needed to install things like python and less when they were preinstalled on N9, but they are just a "zypper in" away, and on the other hand to get things like rsync or luks you had to install additional community repos.
(which were not there in the beginnig, BTW...)

juiceme

2013-12-18 07:34

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1397861)

Btw. I just wonder how many who actually has tried to POST a message in Jolla phone and edit the trext moving the cursor? It was bad on N9 but even worse now.

That's actually true, but it is a limitation in the browser (or actually the keyboard part not having cursor arrows)
Same thing happens on other sites where you need to type long POC on a textbox...

However it's good to know that one is also coming (like the landscape mode on browser wich will help a lot... used exclusively landscape on N9)

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