maemo.org - Talk - Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles

Based on his wording, I think he's saying that Nokia lies about the quality and innovation of their products. I'd also argue that if you want to argue that Android lies about the openness of their operating system, you're naive enough to overlook the fact that Maemo is very closed in even more critical and system-dependent ways. This was also part of Qwerty's aforementioned rant. You probably missed that.

maemo is open, what is closed are couple of apps and drivers
and in android case google reservs the "right" not to share android source code unles they feel like it...(proven with not releasing 3.x source for a very long time)

only thing open in android is the linux kernel(which has nothing to do with android so nothing in android is truly open)

marxian

2012-03-05 18:34

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles

Tizen will either:

1. Sink faster than a lead turd.

2. Be successful and as a result become progressively more locked-down.

There's no money in simply providing an open mobile OS and letting people do what they want with it. In any case, my money is on (1).

specc

2012-03-05 18:49

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles

Quote:

Originally Posted by marxian (Post 1174772)

I would go for 1. The same that happened to Maemo/MeeGo. But before it goes all lead turd on us, we could see some cool devices coming, similar to the N800-900 line of products.

danramos

2012-03-05 19:10

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles

Quote:

Originally Posted by marxian (Post 1174763)

I think the remark is actually aimed at Microsoft, specifically Windoze.

You're right. Thanks! Although, I'm not sure that I'd prefer Windows OS over Android for any reason at all. Especially if, in the end, you get a forever half-baked operating system (speaking of half-truths and lies, let's not pretend Windows Phone is so very different an operating system from Windows Mobile, upon which it is based and has been failing to evolve past its failures for well over a decade) with limited capability and library.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimyHR (Post 1174770)

Maemo is about as open in those regards. Have you forgotten that Maemo is closed-source enough that Mer couldn't succeed? What about the power management and connectivity daemons and other back-end operating system portions of Maemo that are fully closed, in addition to the drivers and applications you can't even uninstall without breaking the operating system (calendar, media player, etc)? At least, on Android, you can use the AOSP to build an operating system that at least WORKS without the closed-source portions.

Bringing this all back home to the topic, though: I don't see how Nokia can't take the blame for their own failures and it's incredibly shameful to see Elop and Nokia blaming anybody but themselves.

zwer	2012-03-05 19:12

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles

Quote:

Originally Posted by marxian (Post 1174772)

There's no money in simply providing an open mobile OS and letting people do what they want with it. In any case, my money is on (1).

Not necessarily. If one can devise a system that will work fully in the open but just be impractical for the competition to implement, it can stay fully in the open while not posing a risk to the original manufacturers' business. For example, if Skype was to move to fully open source, it would still generate revenue for the original Skype inventors because what use is the system when you don't have contracts with telco industries to hook it up to the existing fixed and cell phone lines - sure, one could use their protocol to create a better app and steal from them the user base, but they are not making any money or benefits (except for the brand recognition) from it anyway.

With an OS in question it gets a bit more complicated because OSes are not generally provided as services but rather standalone entities, however I'm sure there is a way to make it profitable enough to justify the efforts of developing it while keeping it open source. There always is a way.

Even if there isn't, if you don't think of yourself as a software but rather hardware provider, it's quite beneficial to you to go the open route and have the thousands upon thousands software developers work for you essentially for free. Why would you care if somebody else can use it if you think you can differentiate enough through the hardware alone?

And in the end, there are quite successful open-source projects that easily reach the complexity and the effort needed for a mobile OS, so how come those are still around and didn't get more closed along the way - projects like Eclipse, the Linux kernel, WebKit, Qt...

specc

2012-03-05 20:51

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwer (Post 1174797)

And in the end, there are quite successful open-source projects that easily reach the complexity and the effort needed for a mobile OS, so how come those are still around and didn't get more closed along the way - projects like Eclipse, the Linux kernel, WebKit, Qt...

Such an OS do exist today. It is called Android. From what I gather lots of open source zealots don't like that, because Android is not Linux enough to be called an open source OS.

Strange, because it is open enough for Kindle/Nook to make tons of money based on it.

misterc

2012-03-19 03:23

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1172408)

Hey. I was made into Jabba the Hutt. That's worth something.

Quote:

Jabba the Hutt is a fictional character in George Lucas's space opera film saga Star Wars. Designed as a large, slug-like alien, his appearance has been described by film critic Roger Ebert as "Dickensian," a cross between a toad and the Cheshire Cat.

(from Wikipedia)

do you need more like that ?!?
The Toad, maybe? :D :p ¦-)

misterc

2012-03-19 03:45

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles

Quote:

Originally Posted by specc (Post 1174853)

tons of money usually does not come with FOSS...

Google makes its money with ads
Barnes & Nobles or Amazon obviously hope to make money from e-book sales...
they, as well as all the other ANDroid device providers (also) simply make money from the HW sales; the fact that the SW running on it is free makes it easier to price it attractively...

another reason m$ devices are less competitive...
between a N9 (16GB) & a Lumia 800, for a practically identical HW, the OS costs more, thus 23$ to 30$ less margin...
on a 450 bucks device...

and as HW is identical, as opposed to iPotatos where there is no direct HW competiton, the customers are not willing to pay more for... crappy SW :rolleyes:

misterc

2012-03-19 04:29

Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwer (Post 1174797)

[...]For example, if Skype was to move to fully open source, it would still generate revenue for the original Skype inventors [...]

rather a bad example, as it goes... Skype was bought up by... m@ke$$h!t
and that wasn't because of the money (they never made) then simply of the proverbial technical incompetency of m$...despite being in the IM (& VOIP) business for ages, they haven't even figured out how to make it work; the only reason ppl use their $h!t is because they don't know any better

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwer (Post 1174797)

With an OS in question it gets a bit more complicated because OSes are not generally provided as services but rather standalone entities [...]

so i just get this right... you bought all the LostDOS CDs / DVDs (maybe even diskettes? hopefully 5¼ ones ¦-)))) from m@ke$$h!t to put them in your book shelf? mind telling us what for?

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwer (Post 1174797)

Why would you care if somebody else can use it if you think you can differentiate enough through the hardware alone?

go tell that to all the companies manufacturing ANDroid devices :D
hardly any ANDroid devices lasts more then a few months, no matter how powerful it is upon release. & none of them ever includes ground breaking HW innovations; merely more of the same (thus no money available for R&D...) :mad:

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwer (Post 1174797)

projects like Eclipse, the Linux kernel, WebKit, Qt...

none of those is/was profitable
either foundations or... see 1st § (Trolltech got acquired by NOKIA and last time i checked, they didn't make any money from it)

0 out of 4... :rolleyes:

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