Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

You Are completly missing What Im saying.

But let's see where the money takes Jolla if they won't deliver tablet if anyone even wants to invest with the failed shipping of tablet.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Nice gesture but it seems they won't needing your generous offer to do so.

In retrospect, should we not have responded to the tablet campaign with a "no thanks, Jolla" in order to protect Jolla from loosing its focus on perfecting and making Sailfish truly feature complete?
And thus giving it a true chance to emerge as THE most wanted and obvious choice alternative (and worth to pay for) mobile phone OS?
Nokia N9 was such a product that could have sold itself if basic support cycle was not interrupted prematurely. I thought the people involved in creating this should have known what to do. Create the same appeal.

On a side note, Intel does not seem to bring good luck to European mobile OS efforts.
Jolla x86 Sailfish 2.0 tablet announcement brought back those memories from 2010 Maemo becomes MeeGo blah blah , partnership with intel etc..
As always, a critical deviation by some overhead premature deal by managers and momentum gets lost.

By that thinking I am not ready to symbolically re-gift my tablet + 64GB campaign money, which I consider lost to a not urgent 2.0 interface "refreshment" project, before to Jolla commits to restructure and regain focus first.

Hope they will find ground to continue on the the voluntary drive of people that want Sailfish to succeed that can finally work on fixing those top page together.jolla.com requests to make Sailfish an natural choice even for Android exclusive app addicts.

As always I 'd love to pay 100 Euro per Sailfish OS license on a sensible choice of platform (Fairphone looks fine enough to me)

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Tablet deliveries are IMO not that big thing financially when compared to cost of running the business. So, in that regard trying to cut costs by dropping Tablet altogether servers no purpose as it instantly destroys all the credibility Jolla has left as a company and with it goes their future. So, Tablet deliveries are a priority among other things, which are:

- closing the financial round, it certainly looks like there is difference of opinions about the strategy
- pushing the Intex-relationship forward as it's success is crucial in attracting other manufacturers

[speculation]Regarding investors, they seem to question Jolla's direction. There has been talk about open sourcing Sailfish OS but for some reason it has not advanced and judging from latest irc-meeting, they have not been in a position to make such decision without approval from investors and when the company is making ~€10m losses annually, it might be hard to convince them to "let's just give everything away for free!"-model. This is why they are suggesting a licensing scheme very similar to Qt, which would allow wide access for the people at the same time they could collect income from corporations willing to create devices based on Sailfish. But this is up to investors to decide and that agreement seems to be crucial for securing additional funding. I'm quite sure there is some serious discussion about the strategy, priorities, structure etc... currently Jolla is everything but sustainable and the direction has to change rather sooner than later.[/speculation]

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Are those two not likely to converge especially when Intex sees this crisis as an opportunity to get a grip on and majority participation in Jolla?

In my opinion the 2.0 interface changes being partially unfinished seem the result not so much from long term strategy but from recent partnership with Intex.
Intex seems like they are best positioned to purchase Jolla as their own OS and fit it in their "independency from imports".


Intex to Invest INR 10 Billion in New Handset Plant in India
Oct 6 15

Intex plans to invest INR 10 billion to open a manufacturing plant at Greater Noida in Uttar Pradesh. Via this move, the company seeks to end its dependence on imports to meet its demand. The company also plans to invest an additional INR 5 billion in research and development over the next few years.


I even see the Jolla first line support department moving to India to match location of the then biggest future Jolla market.

After all Jolla has been without service center for quite a while (the writings were on the wall quite a long time already in those service related posts "bear with us" ).

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

The interesting thing would be if Jolla somehow made it back to its feet, and was even making a profit, could the attract a few of the original cast back.

Would investors dare put more money in? Since it seems they were breaking ground in Asia.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

You don't get it, do you? Nothing you say makes a shred of difference to Jolla. They have their mouths full of words like "people driven" but that is just PR to fool naiive peole like you. They are a corporation and their decisions are made by the management. The only time when they seem to "listen to the community" are when their decisions happen to agree with some of the community's. Like dropping the ExFAT support on the tablet, for example, despite the implied promise to implement it on reaching that stretch goal.

The decision to make the tablet was made long before and the work on it was well underway by the time it was officially announced. The whole IGG campaign was nothing but a PR stunt (that eventually backfired, but that is irrelevant).

(Sorry, nothing personal against ste-phan, the "you" I used in the above can refer to anyone who fell for the delusion of "openness".)

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Quite negative view of the world?

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Once again Dave, No Money == No Tablets. Money == Tablets.

It'll get you tablets.

The credibility and reputation of an empty building? Why would anybody care about that?

Again, all I'm saying is that a Jolla with a poor reputation would have a chance. A nonexistent company with a good reputation is pointless. And in any case, you're missing my point -- there's no tablets without money, but with money, tablets will happen.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Wow. :) They are indeed a corporation, and therefore do tend to act in ways that are not necessarily aligned with individual folks. But I've gotta say, as a guy in the US, Jolla has a lot more interest in and interaction with its customers (and with folks just off the street) than anybody around here seems to have...

I dunno about that. It feels to me more like a campaign that was slapped together at the last minute. They needed a new way to advertise Jolla, they saw the sales effort from Intel, found a low-cost retina-display tablet on offer from China, and went for it... In fact, that "Day Zero: Bootstrapping" blog only came out on December 17th, a month after the campaign had started, and they really hadn't progressed all that far at that point.

No argument from me on that one. :(

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Can you spell "denial"?

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Possibly. It depends on Jolla's shareholders if they are willing to sell, also trying to aquire company against the will of current staff would be a risky move for them as it doesn't really take that many disgrunted employees to leave and they would be in trouble trying to fetch it all back together with new people - especially if they don't really have in house expertise for such development. But still, anything is possible and such move might guarantee the longer term future for Sailfish OS in some form (which might or might not be something we actually want). We live thrilling times once more - feeling like I'm getting too old for this... :P

True. Without local first line support it's very difficult to support the customers. Maybe it's not like moving it all to India, if they intend to reach western markets, but at least found another service center run by Intex to support Sailfish OS based devices made by Jolla and Intex. However, I doubt investors are willing to fund Jolla-branded devices any longer, but want them to concentrate on software and manufacturer deals.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Sometimes, a diagram helps :)

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Why I would want to spell it? :)

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Sorry, I think you have an unreasonably cynical view of this. Yes, Jolla is a company, but at the end of the day they have to pay people and to pay people they need cash. That cash has to come from somewhere and will have strings attached to it. I don't think you have any good reason to say that Jolla don't listen - sure they don't always do what their customers ask for, and they've been known to go back on things. But the fact is that people can post long rants about Jolla on Together often on baseless assumptions, and they don't get removed. Contrast that to some larger companies who have no public forum, or if they do then it's heavily moderated to not allow any critical commentary. Yes these guys may have failed from time to time (and they're not even done yet), but the very fact that you know about that means that they've communicated and listened more than most.

I worry sometimes that a lot of people round here won't know what they had until it's gone. It's really easy to sit in your armchairs and bray about how you would have done things differently. These guys actually took the risk, stepped up and are trying to do something that they believe in. I am very grateful for that.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

"Letting people rant" and "listening to people's rant" is not the same thing. Besides, Jolla does not have to moderate TJC. They have a lot of minions doing their moderation for them. Any even marginally critical voice is immediately stamped to the ground.

So yes, on a scale from 1 to 10, they may be about 3 in terms of "listening to the community". That is certainly better than some other corporations that are 1 or even 0 on that scale. But they and some of their most die-hard fans act like they are 11.

All this discussion started by ste-phan wondering what would have happened if the community had decided not to support the tablet. And I maintain that such a community decision would have had absolutely zero impact.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

I've been thinking for a while what would have happened if they stopped funding when they reached the target (was it $400k?)
I guess we would end up at the same place, but sooner or would have been easier to manage?

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

I haven't seen much 'stamped into the ground' over there, but when I have it's been when someone's been behaving like an arsehole. That wasn't done by minions or henchmen or whatever word people choose for people who don't agree with them, it was by other members of the community who are trying to make this whole thing work constructively. I don't think I've seen anyone's posts get deleted, though I've seen a few arseholes try to aggrandize what they're saying by claiming that will happen. Just people getting called out when they get carried away.

"Letting people rant" and "listening to people's rant" are the same thing here. I haven't seen anything to suggest that they don't see most of what's posted on TJC. Plenty of Jolla employees have responsed to questions, and lots of suggestions have been implemented. They still have a choice, a qualified, professional, experienced choice in what they implement and what they don't.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

It wouldn't have mattered in the least. The tablet cost way more to produce than the amount received from the Indiegogo campaign; they'd have needed to get something like an order of magnitude _more_ backers to have received the kind of money they needed to keep Jolla running.

The Indiegogo campaign was, for the most part, an advertising campaign for Sailfish. One that helped to pay for itself somewhat, but certainly not one that provided anything like a profit to Jolla...

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

While many people do engage in nonsensical rants please note that many of us have been there since the N900 and N9 (or even longer!) and it would be pretty stupid to stay silent if you see the same mistakes being repeated for the second (or even a third!) time.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Really?

I have a Jolla phone that I love, that is now probably locked in time.

I have a tablet case for a tablet that Im never going to get

What have we actually got now?

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

This is one of those issues to which conversation between late Yizhak Rabin and Gerald Ford (about promise to move US embassy to Jerusalem during presidential campaign) fits quite well: "My dear Yitzhak, I do remember, but I have realized that life looks completely different from the Oval Office."

Company is not run by community and cannot work lie a community, therefore it's not possible to be so community oriented that it pleases all. There have been numerous examples where even our "old guard" have been very quick at labeling certain decisions as mistakes because it has caused something unwanted or taken much resources and time to implement, but at the same time when reasons behind such decisions (like Qt upgrade) are known, it's not that simple. To listen to the feedback is never the same as implementing and doing just about anything some vocal members in the community care to demand - companies have responsibility towards the owners of the company and owners are the ones who ultimately decide if company will ie. open source certain assets or if they are allowed to follow certain strategies. Members of the community usually speak from their point of view, some intentionally disregard the corporate aspect of things. Coming from N900-era community does not mean that every single thing one does not like in way company X does is simply a "mistake". Of course this does not mean they have not made mistakes. The road of Jolla has been riddled with self implied difficulties, misfortunes caused by others (Sailfish would look completely different if NovaThor was not thrown under the bus) and lack of resources aggravates them quite much.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Me too. Which mistakes are you referring to? My view on Jolla is that they've specifically tried to avoid some of the frustrations of Nokia, most significantly the poor amount of PRs we'd get after release. I think the main problem they have is that after witnessing the disintegration of Nokia, people's expectations are just too high. They expect Jolla to be a do-over of Maemo/Meego, when the resources are a tiny fraction.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Amen!

To clarify my position, I never said it was bad. The only thing I said was do not fool yourself that Jolla does as the community pleases. They don't and they can't.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

I have a phone that has received more updates than every other phone I've ever owned put together. It owes me nothing.

That is by no means certain, though I've a feeling that this general assumption I'm seeing that Jolla is over is not helping them secure their next round of funding, so that may be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

wow, I never realized my little voice was so powerful! and Im sure any one wishing to fund Jolla, might just notice - even from Jolla themselves - that they have not been able to currently supply tablets.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

that is more info
http://jolla.com/wp-content/uploads/...5_FINAL_61.pdf
but not that much any way ;)

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

I think their "about Jolla ltd" may need updating a bit :)

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Sure, that's definitely an improvement!

My main gripe is that Sailfish OS should have been fully open source from the start (even in the dual licensed/CLA arrangement proposed on latest community meeting) after all the problems the half open/half closed nature of Fremantle on the N900 and Harmattan on the N9 caused. Would it be enough to avoid the current crisis ? I don't know, but all the closed bits apparently didn't bring any profitable licensing deals and other income either...

And I guess my second gripe is neglected developer ecosystem - it has been like this already for the N900 and N9 and I'm afraid a lot of mistakes are being repeated for the third time - hard to reach & immature store system, limited allowed APIs in store, incomplete or missing documentation, critical issues faced by app developers remaining unfixed, etc. Given that apps are usually the lifeblood of a platform and more or less the reason people are buying smartphones in the first place, I think this is something that needs to be improved or else consequences are dire.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

That, is more important as it might seem actually.
And, even more, the slightest evidence of success (read support from US) IS equally important.
It might just save their future existence. Alsao, it is important steps to ensure getting investors interested.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Well said, sir! Well said!

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

still no jolla response?

1. either this finical issues is just a fake rumor. jolla is safe

or

2. Jolla is in total denial and put their heads in the sand.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Do you read anything here?

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

no, bin bizzy running businesses so we don't end up like jolla. I was elected to lead, not to read[arnold schwarzenegger voice]

What is the lastest? a new wave starting in April?

OK, no more comment from jolla?

debt restructuring...then
1. jolla is ****ed
2. we are ****ed
3. the tablet is ****ed
4. jolla has not been open at all, this has been known a long time.
5. jolla management is not fit to run a business
6. I can write more... I'm too disappointed. $50M dollars down the...

This leaked was just another betrayal! Should have come from jolla directly!

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

There was a press release earlier, Dave. It's everywhere.

Basically, it's all your fault and they're going to sue. Better lawyer up!

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Yeah, should have been drafted yesterday or on month ago. blog post should been ready to explain, apoagize for asking people to put their money for the last tablets from the shop when the companies was dead in its track! Not mention all the backers. not a word for 6 months! Almost illegal behavior!

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Your level of entitlement is a bit too high for my likes. The company is trying to restructure to avoid putting a lot of people out of work and you're going on ad nauseum about a tablet.

We get it. Trust me, I have money invested too. But it's in our best interests that they get their company in order, so that you'll get some updates once the tablet is received.

I hope that this is just a hiccup, that some investors see the worth of Sailfish, this hardware does get out and the folks that have crafted Sailfish get a chance to continue on their endeavors.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

What is that?
http://jolla-adventures.com/

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Dude, forget the tablet. its not about the tablet. These people are dangerous. They are wasting other peoples money in a way that is disturbing. They must be stopped.

They have done a great OS, A great Phone but the journey ends here and now.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Care to prove these "dangerous" activities? I mean, you make it sound like this is Enron.

Or are we just resorting to hyperbole because this is a race to see what statement will end up as a news article?

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

jolla started that while back. They are trying to help other Start-ups I guess :D