Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

Talking about QA... one way to improve it is to "outsource" this to "free beta testers". (Some might say that we are all free beta testers... :rolleyes: ) Lately more and more IT specific software has been released for testing in beta status (RTComm, Videocenter, etc...) for people to test/try. I wish also the new Firmwares would be made available as beta. I hope this method has proven beneficial tool to Nokia to improve the software quality, and they would continue and expand its usage.

Re: Blah-blah, somnething about QA...
 

You're missing a critical point of zerojay's, which admittedly came after the post you quoted BUT has been stated previously. Zero pointed out the in 6 months of use he's never had the card problem. Even more important, I informally tested prerelease versions (rigorously) that actually had obvious bugs and never encountered a single card failure of any sort during that time. This is why I said in another thread that simply asking for those who HAVE had the problem misses an important point: the null hypothesis (if you're involved with QA then you know of what I speak).

The fact remains that while catching such bugs is indeed incumbent upon Nokia software QA, there ARE a multitude of factors involved (the formal explanations provided so far are simplified for brevity's sake) and testing for every possible combination can be problematic. For all the complaining done, the fact also remains that once solid, detailed reports started coming into Bugzilla, Nokia had the materials required to properly analyze the problem. Yes, communications could have been a bit better-- but overall I think the process worked as it should.

Speaking of which: are you filing your numerous issues on Bugzilla?

I'm with Mara on this one, but I wonder how many more complaints would arise due to bug-induced problems...

Re: Blah-blah, somnething about QA...
 

I didn't have that problem. It felt much better to me.

Agreed, but the tablet doesn't run a real-time OS anyways... and neither do you at home. The problem is in the linux scheduler. I remember around the time of the first or second firmware update for the N800, I was able to listen to music as the N800 scanned for access points without my music skipping, but ever since one of those firmware updates, I get skips while scanning. Someone probably forgot to enable the kernel preemption stuff.

I've seen this somewhat rarely. It does appear to be a regression.

Never seen it.

I've never had this problem, thankfully. It's what I use to wake me up in the morning!

I'd be happy with the built-in player if it could play a few more formats (WMV) and if some of the relatively simple bugs piling up on Bugzilla would be fixed.

It sure can. Library -> Video. Your clips are all right there.

It's not too bad for me, but sure, I would like to see it faster.

Never had this happen to me. The only time I ever really have instability is when attempting to use the camera application.

I don't think it's fair to say that Nokia's QA should have caught the bug. It's a rare set of circumstances without any obvious errors. I've used my tablet for 4-10 hours a day, 7 days a week for about 5 or 6 months. If someone that's as heavy a user of the tablet as me never even once had this problem, how can you expect QA to easily find it? Answer: you don't.

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

I'd like that, but it's clear that a lot of customers don't seem to understand the concept of beta and instead do nothing but ***** and moan about the unfinished state of the software instead of being constructive and filing bugs.

What I think would be best is to have Mr. Gil gather up a few people who have been productive on Bugzilla and seeing if they wouldn't mind being private beta testers. Would also be good for the next generation of tablets as well.

It's a win-win situation. Those people who are active on Bugzilla are the types that would be most interested in continuing to file bugs and in playing with the beta software. A reward for their efforts, so to speak. In turn, Nokia gets some free beta testing with real-world users (and real-world use cases) and it keeps them from looking bad when the less educated/less understanding users complain about beta software publically.

Of course, public beta testers are good, but can never be a replacement for a solid QA team, but a nice supplement to it.

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

^ fully agreed with that zero.

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

Agreed as well, it's a natural tendency for those who don't know what they're doing to try and install beta software. This is a good thing: bugs aren't just found by power users. Unfortunately, it requires a level of sophistication to raise good bug reports that not everyone has.

However, I'd strongly discourage Nokia from starting any new closed system, with a clique of power users beta testing; potentially waving their knowledge and access under the noses of "lesser" users.

Ubuntu manages a well produced system with open betas, and we've already established numerous times that multi-platform end-user desktop OSes are "harder" than IT OS releases for two (well, one supported) hardware configurations. If Canonical can organise this in an open fashion, and deal with the end-user complaints about it "not being ready", why couldn't Nokia?

I suspect one of the key differentiators is managing expectations. Ubuntu has a clear roadmap with predictable releases every six months. There's a nebulous roadmap for Maemo, nothing for IT OS and no predictable IT OS releases.

The glib answer from Nokia (or the fanboys and girls - indeed, it's not just Apple (shock))) is "competitive advantage" or, depending on the phase of the moon, "we're trying harder and you can't expect a big organisation to change overnight" ;-)

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

End users of Ubuntu are generally more knowledgable about Linux than the average (intended) end user of the tablets. Just that alone changes a lot of things. I'm not against having fully open betas though - it would be ideal.... but Nokia wouldn't go for that for firmware images. Individual apps, sure.

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

As the 2nd of October is only a few hours away, perhaps already here for some folks, are we likely to see the firmware update tomorrow, Tuesday October 2nd?
.

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

No glib answer here... but lest we forget, unique proprietary hardware is involved and that complicates things. As we see with the SD cards, damage from bugs can be very real. A power user will be irritated but at the same time understand the complexity and participate in solutions; "lesser" users will rant and little more (not saying it isn't their right, but...). So I can understand why Nokia would open betas for browsers and other separable apps and keep firmware testing limited. Like zero noted.

Re: Update: SD/SDHC Card Trashing - Nokia Admit There's a Problem
 

An interesting thread! I would like to add one corrective point. For those who say something like 'I've been using the N800 for 8 months with no problems, so how can you expect QA to find this?` The critic of QA said that they should have bought a big variety of cards and they would easily find the problem. Now, if those of you who made this comment bought a big variety of cards and played with them constantly for eight months, you have a good point there. But if you just have used a few cards that worked fine for eight months, it is not surprising that you didn't encounter the problem. If QAers are relying on experiences with only a few cards, they aren't doing things right.

But I think that a card that can be destroyed beyond reformattability just because someone does something suboptimal with it, is an unreliable, dangerous card. A lot of the SD cards seem to be in that category.

And on the subject of Bugzilla:

I ran a tech support group for about eight years. We learned a lot from user reports in the form of email messages. We had bug-tracking software, but that was mainly used only by the QA professionals. When I filed a bug report, I often just posted it in email and if there was some information I left out, someone would ask me.

I don't see why it is essential that such information from users can be responded to only if it is put into something called Bugzilla. The same information in any form should be usable.