maemo.org - Talk - 770 - the forgotten tablet

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- Nokia 770 (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=24)

- - 770 - the forgotten tablet (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=15234)

Re: 770 - the forgotten tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hedgecore (Post 131735)

And it better have a fellate function or neither me or Karel will buy one.

Dude! Is that, like on the roadmap?

Re: 770 - the forgotten tablet

It's on my roadmap, tenderly written on a napkin in crayon. Dr. Ari's security detail won't let me get close enough to give it to him.

Re: 770 - the forgotten tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnuite (Post 131777)

This is not true at all. And forgive me if I take a small bit of offense to your assertion. Maemo Mapper was first developed on the 770, it has always worked on the 770, and it will always work on the 770.

You just joined in November, so maybe you weren't around when the N800 was first announced, but I was perhaps one of the most vocal developers against the way Nokia abandoned the Nokia 770 and OS2006. Making OS2007 work on the 770 should have been a priority. I still don't agree with the way Nokia handled it, but what's done is done. The only thing I could do was vow to continue support for the 770 (because, hey, I own one, too, and I'd like to use my own software on it).

And trust me, Nokia didn't make that particularly easy. They did the same thing with OS2008 (breaking backward compatibility), but at least they learned from their mistakes and made OS2008 available for the N800. OS2008 brought hardship only to developers, leaving users insulated from many of the negative effects, although applications generally still need to be ported to OS2008 before they can work.

Every single release of Maemo Mapper includes a version for the 770, with the exact same capabilities as the other versions. Just look at the release list in the Garage. OS2007/N800 support started with v1.4, and OS2008 support started with v2.2. The most recent version, v2.3.1, still supports OS2006 and the Nokia 770. And all future versions will run on it, too.

As for OS2007HE, Maemo Mapper can work with it, if you're willing to do a little more work (and if you're using the "hacker edition" firmware, then you're obviously willing). Personally, I don't use OS2007HE (so I can't test Maemo Mapper on it), because its benefits aren't worth putting up with its shortcomings, but some people do, and some people run Maemo Mapper on it.

Or maybe you're talking about Maemo Mapper abandoning OS2005? It is true that Maemo Mapper v1.0 and greater do not support OS2005, but that is because there is no reason to run OS2005 on the Nokia 770. In fact, I would be surprised to hear that even a single Nokia 770 is still running OS2005. Users stubborn enough to run OS2005 probably don't have a problem sticking with Maemo Mapper v0.2.4.

Anyway, sorry for the rant, but I've spent a lot of my spare time making sure that Maemo Mapper works on every version of Maemo that is available. And I will continue to spend time with that goal in mind, at least as long as I have working 770 with which to test.

G - I have nothing but the most respect for the work you have done with Maemo Mapper, it is definately my most favorite software for this device for sure. My original point may have been lost. What I was trying to convey was that several high visibility apps (mapper, canola) have released newer versions not compatable with N770 - I did not say that mapper does not work on the 770 "the newest version does not work without additional tinkering". My statement was that as much as I am trying to learn Linux, it's kinda hard when everything is a moving target. That being said, I am unable to use the latest and greatest as a lot of linux newbies are because we don't have the skills and we are being left out. Trust me - Microsoft makes me feel left out everyday because I don't have VISTA. This is one reason why I decided to give linux a try, but I'm starting to understand that you can be left out here also, so that is frustrating to me.
BTW - don't ever go by "joined date" for this board, I've been lurking for quite some time - I only joined when I had a question that I could not find the answer to by using the search function.

Re: 770 - the forgotten tablet

Over here in the usa i see that nokia's is pushing hard to enter the market, all the stores sell nokia's devices i think that's cool but, just like any other place all the good stuff are on back order? anyway why the F**k is the 770 the same price as the n800????????????????????????????????????????????? can some one help me understand?

Re: 770 - the forgotten tablet

After reading all of the comments - I appologize to all of the programmers who think my anger is directed toward them. I really appreciate all of your efforts. I'm really angry at Nokia for releasing 3 devices within the past 5yrs with minimal support. I understand that you need to continue to make your software and it is easier for you on a better machine. I just wished Nokia had let the previous machines run their corse before releasing a new version for us to buy. As the guy above me said - they can't even keep their pricing structure up to date. Thanks Nokia - lesson learned.

Re: 770 - the forgotten tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by dburr10085 (Post 131971)

I really appreciate all of your efforts. I'm really angry at Nokia for releasing 3 devices within the past 5yrs with minimal support.

A 12-month refresh cycle is pretty normal in consumer electronics, in fact, it's actually rather slow compared to some markets.

The "minimal support" is limited to the 770, the N800 is still supported 100%.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dburr10085 (Post 131971)

I just wished Nokia had let the previous machines run their corse before releasing a new version for us to buy.

What, and still be stuck with the slow-*** 770 after 3 years? Thanks, but no thanks. Yes, not providing an immediate (official) upgrade to OS2007 for the 770 was a raw deal, but Nokia has learned their lesson there and there's work ongoing on OS2008HE. Support for the N800 has been promised through Diablo and may go beyond that since you can't support the N810 without supporting the N800.

Consumer electronics change very rapidly, Nokia is no different from any other manufacturer in the field (I don't see any major software updates for Palm devices :rolleyes:). Their big mistake was to treat the tablet market too much like the cellular market where nobody expects system updates. But, like I said before, I believe Nokia has learned its lesson here and future products will have official support for much longer than the 770.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dburr10085 (Post 131971)

As the guy above me said - they can't even keep their pricing structure up to date. Thanks Nokia - lesson learned.

Isn't the 770 EoL anyway?

Re: 770 - the forgotten tablet

Quote:

Originally Posted by dburr10085 (Post 131971)

I feel ya there. That was much my sentiment when replying earlier. More general yet needing to be clearly addressed at Nokia. Our community and the programmers that are here have been A+, as well showcased during Christmas and the repostory and download issues. The quality of programs I think surpasses many of the commercial mobile apps I have seen elsewhere. Canola2, Kagu,maemopad+,Quiver,etc etc are some really well thought out apps. Many I have yet to break through the surface of and use in depth.
I would say at my current level of use if they fail to move forward nicely with the N800, I could still find much good use with what is already available.

Re: 770 - the forgotten tablet

When I purchased my 770, I knew it wasn't 100% polished. I read the forums and determined it was good enough to use and I was willing to wait for further /software/ updates. At least the hardware wasn't going to be "obsoleted"... I didn't mind the 800's release, until it was announced that its new OS would be incompatible with the 770. Okay, I thought, at least we're on GNU/Linux, so source will be available for the community. Erm... that didn't happen. Due to legal issues, not all of the OS could be released. So, here I am, with a perfectly good piece of hardware, barely a year old (at the time) and no upgrade path. I couldn't even pay for an upgrade. (Maybe this is because Nokia knew that the number of 770's sold wouldn't support a software upgrade team?)

In contrast, my /nine/ year old Pentium II 350 Mhz PC runs the latest GNU/Linux SuSE 10.x release. It's my primary computer too.

I wouldn't have minded paying a fee to upgrade my 770's software. It's the expensive upgrade of hardware and software that I have problems with. The hardware is perfectly capable, why toss it?

I've been happy with my 770. I've taken it on every trip and used it when I couldn't get access to a terminal. I would just like some more stability and some upgraded web browsing capabilities, like Flash 9, just so my browser isn't behind my desktop, which I'll say again, is a /nine/ year old Pentium II 350 Mhz.

Re: 770 - the forgotten tablet

Been a while since I posted here. I wholeheartedly agree the 770 was definitely forgotten by Nokia. I can't comment about the rest of the community since frankly I have stopped looking at what is going on some time ago.

I started as an early adaptor and it wasn't easy getting a 770 in NZ when they were first released. I still remember how botched that release was. But I still decided to get one and when I did I made an effort to learn some Linux and even did a bit of hardware hacking. I used the 770 a lot at first. Web browsing, email, media playing and FBReader mainly. I was always hoping for some good PDA software but in the end gave up waiting. There was always something around but it was never quite finished. And that is basically my whole problem with the 770 now and the fact Nokia stopped supporting it. The whole device was never quite finished. The software was always a bit, well, beta. They basically stopped supporting a device they never bloody finished!

I do still use my 770 most days but only for simple web browsing and email. And it is still buggy as hell. I should say receiving email as I don't send email on it. That's too dodgy and I have lost too many messages painfully tapped out on the onscreen keyboard. The handwriting recognition never worked properly for me - never was as easy/quick to use as the original Palm grafitti I found. Actually I still use my old Palm V more than the 770 (for different uses obviously) because it just works. It is old, old tech but it does what it was designed to do and still does it well. The 770 never worked properly. It was almost there but just not quite. Mine still crashes or locks up in one way or another almost every day I use it. I did try the HE software but found that just gave a new set of bugs. Perhaps it is much better now? I don't imagine I will bother trying it to find out.

I don't watch media on it anymore. Converting the files was always a pain (although Urho Konttori's Media Converter was the single best app I came across for the 770 (which is kind of funny since it doesn't run ON the 770) and then the headphone socket broke. Another bug in the design. I did fix that by resoldering the connector but by then I was out of the habit of using it so never went back.

As I said I do still use my 770 but only at home. No longer do I carry it about with me. No longer do I look for exciting new apps to put on it (and reading here again I see there probably aren't many). And soon, in a few weeks, I think it will be time to retire it. I don't imagine it will get used much again like my old Palm V which is still useful. And I won't be upgrading to another Nokia Internet device in the near future. I am getting an Eee PC! And the first thing I am going to do is install XP on it :)

And actually, now I think of it I should be able to sync the Palm V to the Eee with the right adapters. That's kind of perverted!

Simon

Re: 770 - the forgotten tablet

General: 12 month refresh cycle? That's not what happened here. This was almost like releasing CD format and moving to DVD within 12 months and casually paying attention to CD for a short period before forgetting about it. You can stay bleeding edge man, I'm waiting for stage 5. :)