Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

I believe particularly with regard to ebook reading (including pdfs), the 5800 cannot compare with the N8x0? At least I couldn't find a satisfying solution when searching the web about that.

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

Yeah, as skatebiker said (and I said too in my original post) Maemo is a lot better for software than the 5800 right now. And the N8X0's physically larger and higher res screen is a lot better for reading ebooks anyway.

The 5800 is the very first S60 touchscreen device, and the very first S60 5th Edition device too, so there weren't too many apps available for it when it launched. That situation will get better over time as more people buy 5800s and more touchscreen S60v5 devices appear on the market (Nokia N97, Samsung Omnia HD, Sony Ericsson Idou are already announced, more are rumoured).

Ovi Store should also improve the situation as it will provide publishers with an easy route to release software on the 5800 and other phones.

In theory S60 5th Edition is backwards compatible with S60 3rd Edition, and a lot of old apps will work on the 5800, but not all of them will work, and even the ones that do work aren't touch-compatible because S60 previously didn't use touch.

So for now the N810 and N800 are far far better for software than the 5800, especially for open source and freeware.

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

well.... the nokia software updater or whatever its called doesn't ignore country and carrier, does it?

i just remember that when this software first told me an update was available, i canceled the operation and tried to do it OTA because i thought this would be so much smarter. i waited almost 2 months... until i decided it's not worth it, booted windows again and let the software do its job.

so it's not a matter of waiting another day or so....

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

I don't know, but it certainly hasn't been my experience. I can't even check for updates on the phone.

Basically, after a few days with this device I've discovered a couple things:

• Symbian is a joke. I don't know how anybody can take such a user-hostile platform seriously (the signed software is insanity, and I'm quite thankful for the centralized software distribution we have in Maemo). The tiered platform software for different devices is a nasty way to up-sell, and I've found that things just don't work very well most of the time (the email client chokes when opening GMail messages about 50% of the time).
• Nokia's failure to sell phones in the US is completely deserved. I'm fairly certain OTA updates are not available to NAM devices (even though they were advertised on the website), but I can't be sure of this because support (both official and community-provided) is utterly useless. The horror stories about Nokia Care services in the US are further proof if this.

Bring on the high-end Linux phones!

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

Maybe you have a faulty unit?

There have been loads of people who come on here and say "Maemo sucks - X doesn't even work - what a POS!" when it's some feature that does actually work for most people.

Or maybe Nokia simply hasn't made the NAM update available on OTA? But if that's the case that wouldn't be a problem with the actual phone, it would be a problem with Nokia's North American customer service (see below for more on this).



Well that's what Ovi Store is meant to correct, it'll allow people to install thousands of items of software from a single application (and Ovi Store should be a LOT easier to use than the current Maemo application manager).

But I wouldn't call a platform "user-hostile" because of its app distribution system, as most users don't install add-on software on their phones. They don't regard phones as computers, they regard them as consumer devices like music players or games consoles: they'll probably stick to whatever is built into the device.

With Maemo you still get people saying "I can't use Maemo it doesn't have any PIM software", not because PIM software doesn't exist but because there's no PIM software built in. They judge the device entirely by what comes bundled with it, whether or not a better alternative add-on exists.


I totally agree the 5800's Messaging client isn't suited to e-mail. In fact the 5800's email client isn't really meant for email, it's basically just the text message app with some e-mail support bolted on to it.

But as it's S60 you can install a third party client instead, for example Profimail is a very popular third party alternative.

And Nokia's confusingly-named "Nokia Messaging" is another alternative (yes I know the SMS client is called "Messaging" too but they're totally separate).


I don't think the US is the best place to judge Nokia's output, for many different reasons:

-Only a fraction of Nokia's output is ever released in the US. It seems to consist almost entirely of ultra-cheap models and the occasional sim-free higher end model, but most of it simply isn't available.

-It's not exactly easy to sell phones in the US when the US networks insist on crippling them. All of Nokia's first wave of wi-fi phones had to have wi-fi stripped away to be sold in the US. The European and Asian versions of those phones had wi-fi on all networks.

-American networks have been unbelievably slow in upgrading to 3G, and even 2G coverage in the US is pretty awful by European or Asian standards. That sort of destroys the point of many of the features of modern Nokias and Nokia services.

-American users seem to prefer more computer-shaped while European and Asian users want something more phone-shaped. Nokia's a European company so their devices tend to be phone-like. It's quite telling that Nokia's biggest hit in America appears to be the Maemo tablets, which are their most computer-like product since they stopped making PCs in the 1980s.


If the problem is bad customer service, then it has absolutely nothing to do with the technical merits of the actual product.

Like I said before, customer service in Europe is pretty good, I've never had problems getting a Nokia device repaired or replaced, and it's always been totally free of charge. It sounds like this standard isn't really adhered to in America.

There have been lots and lots of threads about this topic on here, and part of the reason seems to be America's extremely weak consumer protection laws which mean customer support across the board is pretty crummy compared to other rich countries.

In Europe if you have a problem with a product which doesn't allow you to use it properly, and the maker or retailer refuses to fix it, you can go to a local government office and they will threaten action on your behalf free-of-charge. If the problem still carries on, they will take it to court with the bill paid for by the tax payer.

For example, I was nearly conned out of quite a lot of money by an unscrupulous landlord (who worked for a very large renting agency), and he simply refused to be reasonable. I went to my local office and explained the situation, gave them documents to prove what I said was true, and they then handled the whole thing from there on in using their own lawyers. I got my money back in full, and didn't have to pay a penny or put any kind of effort into it myself.

AFAIK something like that doesn't really exist in the US. If an individual or company in America takes your money and messes you around you're expected to take action on your own through the courts. (That could explain why Americans have a reputation for being quick to sue, because they often have no other method for getting their money back.)

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

I cannot agree here. I've had two issues when I needed Nokia customer support, and both were trips to hell.

First I had my 770 repaired. 9 weeks. 9 damn weeks, and I got back a different unit with large scratches on the cover. It WSODed shortly afterwards.

Then I tried to get Ovi sync working. Took them one month to find out they couldn't help me. It was hilarious:
Me: "... fails with a server error..."
Nokia: "... there might be an issue with the server ..."
Me: "... oh. Thanks. Now?"
Nokia: "Delete everything and start all over again."
Me: "Didn't work. Now?"
Nokia: "Tell us your firmware version and which browser and OS you're using on your PC."
Me: "Firmware is 4.22. Browser and PC are not involved."
Nokia: "Tell us which browser and OS you're using on your PC."
Me: "Windows XP and IE" (you need to do this, otherwise you get the "we don't support linux" answer)
Nokia: "OK. We forwarded the ticket to our technical experts."
Me: "So?"
Nokia: "They say you should upgrade your firmware to the latest version."
Me: "I have 4.22 and you know I have 4.22 and this is the latest version your software says is available."
Nokia: "How are you today? Feeling excellent I hope. You're right, 4.22 is the latest firmware."
Me: "My problem is still unsolved."
Nokia: "You could re-install the firmware. Maybe this helps." (After 1 month!!!)
Me: :confused::mad:


Nokia....

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

Faulty, as in it didn't ship with update server information and that information is apparently unavailable? . . .

It goes way beyond the OTA stuff, the software just isn't very well put together, it's not very pleasant to use and the platform isn't very good.

If this is the case, wherever the fault lies, it's still a problem with the phone (and thus Nokia's fully deserved failure in the US).

I'll believe it when I see it. But, really, how long has Symbian been around? It's taken them since when to get reasonable software distribution together? :rolleyes:

The application distribution, installation and security system is user-hostile.

For-pay. Yeah, I'll wait for Fremantle's Modest, thanks. :rolleyes:

Be great if it worked, but it doesn't.

Bull. Almost all of Nokia's stuff is released in the US, it's just not often provided with contract.

Well, that, and Nokia insists on providing terrible support for their unlocked phones. Don't use the carriers as a scapegoat.

I don't know how much travelling you do in the US (I'd guess not much judging by this statement), but the vast majority of metropolitan areas in the US have perfectly fine 3G coverage, and 2G coverage is acceptable elsewhere. Either way, comparing places like Europe and Japan to the US is silly. You guys don't have anywhere near the landmass to cover.

This is an issue of the software platform, though.

Yet plenty of US companies manage to provide perfectly good customer service (I'll point to Apple doing a no-cost repair that totals out to more than the cost of the machine new on my 5-year-old G5).

Ha! Remind me how much you guys pay in taxes a year? And how much more expensive electronics are over there? Trust me, you're paying for your consumer "protection" laws whether you realize it or not.

Yes, contract law is a wonderful thing. We have it over here, too.

So your options are, pay somebody with taxes to handling everybody's problems or only pay when you yourself have a problem.

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

I'd recommend refreshing your database on the respective sizes of Europe and the US :)

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

Luckily, for the Linux users, you can use VMware Player for Linux (download it free, really free no trial, from www.vmware.com) to run Windows XP in it and install PC Suite and Nokia Software Updater within the VMware session. I reflashed my 5800 successfully that way.

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

May work, but not to be recommended.

I know of a case where someone tried the same with Parallels/Mac and the result was: the phone was bricked.