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maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)
-   Community (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=16)
-   -   no further subforum classification in the Alternatives forum (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=28742)

qgil 2009-05-11 20:35
Re: no further subforum classification in the Alternatives forum
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mullf (Post 286598)
In other words, when people were writing titles for a thread in the PALM subforum, they didn't feel the need to put "PALM" in the title because it was in the PALM subforum, so that was already assumed. Now that there isn't a PALM subforum, this has become an unanticipated problem.

Maybe all the threads from the old PALM subforum should have been appended "PALM: " or "[PALM] " at the beginning of the post title? And the same with the other subforums. I believe Peguinbait has asked if the list of threads in the old subforums still exist somewhere. Maybe it is possible for someone to still append all the old threads?
Alright, last time I say it (Reggie had said it a couple of times as well): this is exactly what Reggie did. He appended the [Palm OS], [Android], [KDE] etc tags at the beginning of all posts of each thread. Because it was anticipated that otherwise we might had a problem.

Thanks to these tags *I think* the problem is little to none. It's more a formal problem (it feel better to have an own subforum) than real (users use mainly search engines and they are as clever or stupid to find what they are looking for wit or without subforums).

penguinbait 2009-05-11 20:42
Re: no further subforum classification in the Alternatives forum
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qgil (Post 286599)
I understand you every time you say it (and I count almost ten) ;) . But do you understand what I'm saying?

A - If bunanson would have used the search the result would have been the same for those threads without "Palm" in the subject. They hadn't "Palm" before and now the search engine can't find them because of the brackets. The rest of the content can be equally found or not-found by the search engine since it doesn't care about subforums. No difference.

B - If the Palm OS subforum would exist still today and bunanson would have got to scan it thread by thread, he would have seen exactly the same threads and in the same sort than this list. No difference.

If A and B show no actual difference with or without subforum, then we can conclude in an Aristotelian way that bunanson would have equally sweat to find that old post with or without subforum.

I think this is a solid argumentation, but I'm ready to see it beaten. :)

The thing is sometimes, its nice to just see whats there (in a particular category) I have said I am willing to go through all the threads and update them. But really we need the original information to be able to do this, and since itts apparent that, this information exists, how can we get it?

All we are trying to do is make this into something workable. YOU TOOK IT AWAY, OK. You heard me 10 times, help me get this information so we can start to put this back together again. We are all not making this up, itt was useful to US.

The fact is, itt would be easier and cleaner, to just put back the sub-forums, under the alternatives. Since you are refusing to do that, help us get the information to make things easier for everyone in the world we have left.

penguinbait 2009-05-11 20:45
Re: no further subforum classification in the Alternatives forum
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qgil (Post 286605)
Alright, last time I say it (Reggie had said it a couple of times as well): this is exactly what Reggie did. He appended the [Palm OS], [Android], [KDE] etc tags at the beginning of all posts of each thread. Because it was anticipated that otherwise we might had a problem.

Thanks to these tags *I think* the problem is little to none. It's more a formal problem (it feel better to have an own subforum) than real (users use mainly search engines and they are as clever or stupid to find what they are looking for wit or without subforums).
You believe no problem, its only a formal problem, we all keep saying its a real problem. Its like you think that people only use the forum the same way as you, or they should? People use the forums in different ways. We should try to accommodate what makes sense. It appears your community, is trying to tell you this doesn't make sense.

mullf 2009-05-11 20:48
Re: no further subforum classification in the Alternatives forum
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qgil (Post 286599)
B - If the Palm OS subforum would exist still today and bunanson would have got to scan it thread by thread, he would have seen exactly the same threads and in the same sort than this list. No difference.
I don't follow. There is a thread here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=25207 from the old PALM subforum without PALM in the title. I just picked out the top on I found, but you have to look through a lot more to find a specific one when you are looking through all the alternatives than if you were just looking through the PALM subforum.

mullf 2009-05-11 20:52
Re: no further subforum classification in the Alternatives forum
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qgil (Post 286605)
Alright, last time I say it (Reggie had said it a couple of times as well): this is exactly what Reggie did. He appended the [Palm OS], [Android], [KDE] etc tags at the beginning of all posts of each thread. Because it was anticipated that otherwise we might had a problem.

Thanks to these tags *I think* the problem is little to none. It's more a formal problem (it feel better to have an own subforum) than real (users use mainly search engines and they are as clever or stupid to find what they are looking for wit or without subforums).
Didn't you just say that the text in the brackets is not searchable? (From your earlier post: "... now the search engine can't find them because of the brackets.") So someone can't search "PALM OS" in the title and view all the posts in the old subforum to view them the way the could before. Is that correct?

qgil 2009-05-11 21:05
Re: no further subforum classification in the Alternatives forum
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by penguinbait (Post 286609)
The thing is sometimes, its nice to just see whats there (in a particular category) I have said I am willing to go through all the threads and update them. But really we need the original information to be able to do this, and since itts apparent that, this information exists, how can we get it?
The closest is the KDE link in the sticky. It gives you 72 threads, from which only 3 were not in the subforum, even if they are still related to KDE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by penguinbait (Post 286612)
You believe no problem, its only a formal problem, we all keep saying its a real problem. Its like you think that people only use the forum the same way as you, or they should? People use the forums in different ways. We should try to accommodate what makes sense. It appears your community, is trying to tell you this doesn't make sense.
So you feel you are a majority with the best argument, and it appears to you that few of us are imposing a non-sense to all the rest? Fair enough. There is plenty of things to do and I have put enough in this discussion.

Best luck with the moderation and organization of the Alternatives forum!

penguinbait 2009-05-11 21:34
Re: no further subforum classification in the Alternatives forum
 
Reggie.

Can you please provide a list of all the posts that were in each sub-forum.

I would be happy to accept the list for all of the old sub-forums, and pass them out to anyone who wants to help.

I want to use this information to update tags so all the treads can be more searchable.

It would be nice to decide on the deprecated thread before combing through several 100 posts.. It would also be nice to decide on a methodology, so we are all doing the same thing

----------------------------------------------------------------
I also think replacing

Something like
[KDE] Koffice ?? Its been a productive month

with this
[KDE] KDE: Koffice ?? Its been a productive month
or
KDE: Koffice ?? Its been a productive month

The point would be to put the KDE: or Android: at the beginning of the thread. It would be great if you could do something with the database, adding these to all the threads.

This would then categorize them, and it would be searchable. It would also allow new posts to be categorized with the old ones, by the author's including the proper MER: at the beginning of the title.

GeneralAntilles 2009-05-11 22:31
Re: no further subforum classification in the Alternatives forum
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qgil (Post 286623)
So you feel you are a majority with the best argument, and it appears to you that few of us are imposing a non-sense to all the rest? Fair enough. There is plenty of things to do and I have put enough in this discussion.
As far as I'm concerned, the cleanup of the subforums was long overdue and I much prefer the existing arrangement.

As for searchability, forums are not the place to put documentation (that's what the wiki is for). So don't use them for it.

I'm not seeing any majority. Seems to be a lot of shouting by a small number of people.

penguinbait 2009-05-11 22:49
Re: no further subforum classification in the Alternatives forum
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles (Post 286648)
As far as I'm concerned, the cleanup of the subforums was long overdue and I much prefer the existing arrangement.

As for searchability, forums are not the place to put documentation (that's what the wiki is for). So don't use them for it.

I'm not seeing any majority. Seems to be a lot of shouting by a small number of people.
Who said Searchability has anything to do with documentation?

So getting the list of the threads in the original sub-forum and adding useful tags to the posts is a bad idea?

I thought that was the whole point of the cleanup?

GeneralAntilles 2009-05-11 22:54
Re: no further subforum classification in the Alternatives forum
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by penguinbait (Post 286652)
So getting the list of the threads in the original sub-forum and adding useful tags to the posts is a bad idea?
Reinstating the subforums is a bad idea.


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