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-   -   Why should I believe Nokia ? Why should I work for Nokia for free ? ... again (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=34120)

wmarone 2009-11-09 20:57
Re: Why should I believe Nokia ? Why should I work for Nokia for free ? ... again
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcinw (Post 370226)
Yes ! Generally we think similiary. They're not so "open source friendly" like they're say. What's what this thread is about...

And we differ in one thing: during 10 years they showed, that they're not committed to openness.
Except that's not at all what he said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by benny1967
I trust them when they say they're serious about being as open as they can. I trust them when they say they would like to be even more open and hope that they can be in the future. And I trust them when they say they're committed to openness.
And in direct opposition to what you said, Nokia bought Symbian and is slowly releasing it under an open source license, bought Trolltech and didn't close it, and have slowly opened more and more of Maemo as a whole.

I don't get what you're on about.

marcinw 2009-11-09 21:07
Re: Why should I believe Nokia ? Why should I work for Nokia for free ? ... again
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmarone (Post 370235)
Except that's not at all what he said: And in direct opposition to what you said, Nokia bought Symbian and is slowly releasing it under an open source license, bought Trolltech and didn't close it, and have slowly opened more and more of Maemo as a whole. I don't get what you're on about.
They're making, what they have. Open-source is sexy, they're making some steps into it. Only very, very small and required according to situation. But nothing more.

And please note, that Symbian has got lost freshness (it's not only my opinion and it's cited in many good pages). It's easy to open something, what people are not interested so much about.

Generally: I don't buy things written by some people (that Nokia is so good and opened now). And it's about it. Up to this moment nobody proved, that it's differently...

range 2009-11-09 21:11
Re: Why should I believe Nokia ? Why should I work for Nokia for free ? ... again
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcinw (Post 370226)
Yes ! Generally we think similiary. They're not so "open source friendly" like they're say. What's what this thread is about...

And we differ in one thing: during 10 years they showed, that they're not committed to openness.
That is exactly *NOT* what he said.

range 2009-11-09 21:15
Re: Why should I believe Nokia ? Why should I work for Nokia for free ? ... again
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcinw (Post 370249)
Generally: I don't buy things written by some people (that Nokia is so good and opened now). And it's about it. Up to this moment nobody proved, that it's differently...
So putting Qt completely under the LGPL, opensourcing Symbian, offering one of the most open phones with the N900, working on a completely open telephony stack with Intel (ofono) makes them not understanding open source? That makes them not supporting open source?

Then could you please tell us what they would have to do in your eyes to be accepted by you as a company supporting open source? Because you somehow completely failed to do so while you were whining.

wmarone 2009-11-09 21:15
Re: Why should I believe Nokia ? Why should I work for Nokia for free ? ... again
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcinw (Post 370249)
Open-source is sexy, they're making some steps into it. Only very, very small and required according to situation. But nothing more.
What exactly are you expecting of them, now that nearly the entire stack save a few bits and pieces are open?

mikec 2009-11-09 21:16
Re: Why should I believe Nokia ? Why should I work for Nokia for free ? ... again
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcinw (Post 370199)
There are many people registered and many people, who are writing a lot of posts. But we can see also, that in the time when the is lack of N900s and some developers are asking for them, some people with discounts are saying - we will maybe use our coupons, maybe not... Is this real community ? Sorry, I don't buy it.
Just have a look at the tasty stuff being cooked at

http://maemo.org/packages/repository/

Mike C

Ignacius 2009-11-09 21:18
Re: Why should I believe Nokia ? Why should I work for Nokia for free ? ... again
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcinw (Post 370226)
Yes ! Generally we think similiary. They're not so "open source friendly" like they're say. What's what this thread is about...

And we differ in one thing: during 10 years they showed, that they're not committed to openness.
Maybe we both have different visions of what openness means, but to my view, Nokia is really commited to it. They have been founding development of some open technologies I'm using on my computer right now such as gstreamer, telepahty or the Linux kernel, but they do it mainly through another companies like collabora. Now, they have buy Trolltech and are pushing Qt. I think we're never going to know exactly how much work is doing Nokia on some open source projects, but what I have for sure is that buying those devices is helping to have a much better open source ecosystem.

marcinw 2009-11-09 21:27
Re: Why should I believe Nokia ? Why should I work for Nokia for free ? ... again
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by range (Post 370265)
Then could you please tell us what they would have to do in your eyes to be accepted by you as a company supporting open source? Because you somehow completely failed to do so while you were whining.
At least 2 things:

1. treat N900 and Maemo a little bit more seriously. Device should have ALL functionality available in "closed" phones created with at least the same quality OR there be CLEAR info, when this functionality will be released (year, two ?). It would be excellent too, when they will have plans to make Maemo third main line too (but not in the most expensive devices only !).

2. give a real support for users of all their phones for people working for example with Linux. Library or something like this. Able to get/set calendar, pbk, notes and few other details. Or give help with this for Open Source projects.

danramos 2009-11-09 21:33
Re: Why should I believe Nokia ? Why should I work for Nokia for free ? ... again
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignacius (Post 370271)
Maybe we both have different visions of what openness means, but to my view, Nokia is really commited to it. They have been founding development of some open technologies I'm using on my computer right now such as gstreamer, telepahty or the Linux kernel, but they do it mainly through another companies like collabora. Now, they have buy Trolltech and are pushing Qt. I think we're never going to know exactly how much work is doing Nokia on some open source projects, but what I have for sure is that buying those devices is helping to have a much better open source ecosystem.
Settle down, there, hippie.

I'm about as cynical as they come and I generally agree with the notion that they're doing a "decent" job of being open compared to most manufacturers but I don't feel like a lot of that credit goes so much to Nokia than perhaps to the chipset manufacturers and others. Otherwise, why would Nokia continue to make their own applications running on these tablets completely closed? Mind you--I've been surprised by some of the corrections I've gotten from the Fremantle openness compared to the closed-minded source code of the N800 series.. but it doesn't help me, given I'll probably be stuck with the N800 series for a while until something else without a cellular radio comes along--IF it comes along. In the meantime, I still feel jailed by the closed-minded code and I can understand what I think MIGHT be the OP's frustration. (Although, honestly, I think he's going over the top and much more cynical than I am. Despite what people might expect, I'm delighted each time I'm proven wrong.)

range 2009-11-09 21:35
Re: Why should I believe Nokia ? Why should I work for Nokia for free ? ... again
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcinw (Post 370286)
At least 2 things:

1. treat N900 and Maemo a little bit more seriously. Device should have ALL functionality available in "closed" phones created with at least the same quality OR there be CLEAR info, when this functionality will be released (year, two ?). It would be excellent too, when they will have plans to make Maemo third main line too (but not in the most expensive devices only !).
Maybe you can apply for a pony later.

I don't really see what that has to do with openness or Nokia not being open source friendly.

Quote:
2. give a real support for users of all their phones for people working for example with Linux. Library or something like this. Able to get/set calendar, pbk, notes and few other details. Or give help with this for Open Source projects.
I can understand that you are miffed, because Nokia didn't support your project(s) - that still doesn't explain the hostility you show in this thread.


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