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-   Competitors (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=4)
-   -   Oracle sues Google over Java patent infringement in Android (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60254)

maluka 2010-08-14 15:41
Re: Oracle sues Google over Java patent infringement in Android
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt'n Corrupt (Post 786347)
Thanks! I read most of it (though not terribly thoroughly).

I can appreciate the claim that google is illegally distributing Sun Java classes and other code is serious, if indeed it is true (Count 8).

Many of the patents that Sun are claiming to be violating, however, seem incredibly sweeping (based on their titles -- I've not read the patents) and likely to apply to far more projects than Android/Dalvik. Some are questionable. Here they are:

COUNT 1) Protection domains to provide security in a computer system
COUNT 2) Controlling access to a resource
COUNT 3) Method and apparatus for preprocessing and packaging class files
COUNT 4) System and method for dynamic pre-loading of classes through memory space cloning of a master runtime system process
COUNT 5) Method and apparatus for resolving data references in generated code
COUNT 6) Interpreting functions utilizing a hybrid of virtual and native machine instructions
COUNT 7) Method and system for performing static initialization

Wild stuff indeed.
When Sun successfully sued Microsoft and won $1.6billion for doing the exact same thing Google is doing now, nobody complained.

When Google sues people and sends out C&D letters for releasing Android with their apps on it, Android fanboys are all for defending patents.

Milhouse 2010-08-14 15:56
Re: Oracle sues Google over Java patent infringement in Android
 
Let's also not forget that Google are no longer worthy of blind faith support.

When Google do wrong they should be brought to account, same as any other company. I'm no fan of software patents and hope they no longer exist in future but copyright is another matter and Google are most likely bang to rights here, otherwise Oracle wouldn't be going down this route. They're not stupid or desperate, like SCO.

I also think this case will have little if any bearing on other companies and their continued or future use of Java (unless they choose to copy the Java documentation and code while trying to pass it off as their own, of course). :)

Capt'n Corrupt 2010-08-14 16:01
Re: Oracle sues Google over Java patent infringement in Android
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by maluka (Post 786372)
When Sun successfully sued Microsoft and won $1.6billion for doing the exact same thing Google is doing now, nobody complained.

When Google sues people and sends out C&D letters for releasing Android with their apps on it, Android fanboys are all for defending patents.
I understand. Personally, I'm just trying to understand the situation with as little bias as possible and not refuting your claim of rampant tribalism so common on these matters.

It's so hard to pin down universal ideas of good/evil/right/wrong, though I think that even if you were to use Microsoft's name in the place of Google, I would draw the same conclusions. This act seems like a cash-grab and counter to the cooperative spirit that drives computer science. But this perspective is from a position of ignorance on the matter. I don't know much about the law nor the philosophies of various software practices.

Anyway, it is quite interesting, and I'm interested to see how it turns out.

Matan 2010-08-14 16:11
Re: Oracle sues Google over Java patent infringement in Android
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by maluka (Post 786372)
When Sun successfully sued Microsoft and won $1.6billion for doing the exact same thing Google is doing now, nobody complained.
The Microsoft suit was mostly about Trademarks. Since Google named their VM Davlik and not JVM, it is irrelevant.

Quote:
When Google sues people and sends out C&D letters for releasing Android with their apps on it, Android fanboys are all for defending patents.
What is the relvance of patents to Google's C&D letters which are solely about copyrights?

Can you actually point to Android fanboys defending patents?

longcat 2010-08-14 16:25
Re: Oracle sues Google over Java patent infringement in Android
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by maluka (Post 786372)
When Sun successfully sued Microsoft and won $1.6billion for doing the exact same thing Google is doing now, nobody complained.

When Google sues people and sends out C&D letters for releasing Android with their apps on it, Android fanboys are all for defending patents.
Well I think this is the point of all love/hate/right/wrong/be good/don't be evil stuff....

Microsoft epically sucks for a long time, and it's easy to hate them, they constantly lack fanboys, although half of the world is using their systems. That's the flaw in their corporate strategy - they need fanboys to stand for them like Google's, Apple's (and Nokia's) stand for their respected masters.

As posted before, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-10961776 shows what Google really is... just another big giant corporation, prone to evilness as any other.

Milhouse 2010-08-14 16:28
Re: Oracle sues Google over Java patent infringement in Android
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matan (Post 786403)
The Microsoft suit was mostly about Trademarks. Since Google named their VM Davlik and not JVM, it is irrelevant.
The Sun vs Microsoft case was really about protecting Java since Microsoft wanted to subvert the standard - call it trademarks but really it was about avoiding a split in Java and the philosophy of write once run anywhere. To some degree the same applies here with Oracle vs. Google - Dalvik may potentially subvert (or at least steal mind share from) Java Mobile Edition on phones and according to Oracle it seems to be doing so by using Oracle patents and copying Oracle code/documentation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matan (Post 786403)
What is the relvance of patents to Google's C&D letters which are solely about copyrights?

Can you actually point to Android fanboys defending patents?
No need to defend any patents as this case is also about copyright as well as patents. Google shouldn't apply double standards by using copyright law to defend it's own assets when (allegedly) also copying the assets of others.

kureyon 2010-08-14 16:35
Re: Oracle sues Google over Java patent infringement in Android
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 786050)
This sorta could explain why Nokia avoided Java in Maemo 5. Hmm...
But could it explain why their S40/S60 phones have java? Hmm.

maluka 2010-08-14 16:43
Re: Oracle sues Google over Java patent infringement in Android
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kureyon (Post 786415)
But could it explain why their S40/S60 phones have java? Hmm.
Exactly why Google needs Symbian since it is 100% open source and supports Java apps without a VM. :cool:

Milhouse 2010-08-14 16:45
Re: Oracle sues Google over Java patent infringement in Android
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kureyon (Post 786415)
But could it explain why their S40/S60 phones have java? Hmm.
I suspect the decision not to support Java on Maemo only became an official/concious decision once Qt became the official platform of choice for high end devices - prior to the purchase of Trolltech there just weren't the resources to get Java on to the first Maemo devices, and once Qt was chosen then supporting Java (even with Qt/Java bindings) became less important.

Highly doubt it was anything to do with legal issues since as you point out Java was already available on lower end Nokia/Symbian devices.

Milhouse 2010-08-14 16:47
Re: Oracle sues Google over Java patent infringement in Android
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by maluka (Post 786417)
supports Java apps without a VM. :cool:
eh? :confused:


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