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maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)
-   MeeGo / Harmattan (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=45)
-   -   MeeGo's Community Woes (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=67880)

cfh11 2011-01-06 22:27
Re: MeeGo's Community Woes
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danramos (Post 913710)
It can't really be built "from scratch", at least--I would hope not. It would mean that we would be YEARS away, again, from a consumer product. THAT would also be a good reason for many people to abandon this whole project. Why would you try to re-invent the wheel here?
Well of course it isn't built completely from scratch. IIRC it still uses a standard linux kernel and some common APIs.

danramos 2011-01-06 22:32
Re: MeeGo's Community Woes
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfh11 (Post 913729)
Well of course it isn't built completely from scratch. IIRC it still uses a standard linux kernel and some common APIs.
I was still making reference to this operating system as an ARM Linux OS. It would seem terrible to write so much from scratch right away. Wasteful and dumb, really. Hopefully that's not the case--or if it is, it'll QUICKLY develop faster than Maemo did. God, it's been YEARS and Maemo STILL ended up feeling unfinished in its latest incarnation.

wmarone 2011-01-06 22:35
Re: MeeGo's Community Woes
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfh11 (Post 913729)
it still uses a standard linux kernel and some common APIs.
It uses a ton of common code. Virtually everything that comprises MeeGo already exists, and that which doesn't is mostly reference code for UIs, or is external to MeeGo itself (drivers, firmwares.)

In fact, most of the work now is packaging and integration I believe, with some device-specific work being done by hardware adaptation teams (N900, Aava.)

Now if you want to talk about reinventing the wheel, that's when you look at Android ;)

vivainio 2011-01-06 22:37
Re: MeeGo's Community Woes
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danramos (Post 913731)
It would seem terrible to write so much from scratch right away. Wasteful and dumb, really.
It should be clear to pretty much everybody by now that Harmattan is the old "Maemo6", development of which started a long time before N900 launch.

vivainio 2011-01-06 22:40
Re: MeeGo's Community Woes
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmarone (Post 913732)
Now if you want to talk about reinventing the wheel, that's when you look at Android ;)
Android did not only reinvent the wheel, they ensured that the wheel they came up with doesn't work on any of the existing roads.

danramos 2011-01-06 22:49
Re: MeeGo's Community Woes
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmarone (Post 913732)
Now if you want to talk about reinventing the wheel, that's when you look at Android ;)
That's true! Ironically, it matured REAL fast. It probably helped that Google had a lot of money, engineers and actually COMMUNICATES with its intended vendors and developers who themselves bother to talk to their intended audience, the customers. Nokia never quite seemed to get a knack for any of this. I would have rather seen Maemo turn into the big success that Android has quickly become. Talk about your missed opportunities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vivainio (Post 913739)
Android did not only reinvent the wheel, they ensured that the wheel they came up with doesn't work on any of the existing roads.
At this rate, where they're going, they aren't going to need roads. They're quickly flying above the rest.

Stskeeps 2011-01-07 07:35
Re: MeeGo's Community Woes
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemmyslender (Post 913673)
I thought the idea was to take the best parts from both and mash them up into one giant underlying OS with several different UI's. Not to mention that the Handset OS will likely have little bearing on the first offering from Nokia, which will be based on Harmattan, which has been in development for some time (which is all being done behind closed doors).
lemmyslender has the right idea. However, that isn't always as easy as it sounds :)

Challenges from merging Nokia's stuff:

* Moving platform components previously happily non-oss out in to the open (licensing process does take time, honestly, when you need to verify the resulting open source code is 'safe' from patent infringement possibilities, etc)
* Moving from a hardware specific focus to hardware agnostic focus in software/platform parts (we had a big deal of problems with that in MeeGo)
* Implementing UX different from Nokia's that is free from ties to let vendors customize
* Merging proper Qt + SDK parts like MADDE takes time to refit
* Retraining people for RPM packaging

Challenges from merging Moblin's stuff:
* GTK+ based and netbook-focused
* Previously fairly Intel-focused, even though ARM
* Making the architecture fit the MeeGo vision

... and most importantly of all: creating processes and get people working together.

So, no, not from scratch, but as with any merging in organisations, it takes a lot of frustration and leg work. We're quite far by now :)

johnel 2011-01-07 08:29
Re: MeeGo's Community Woes
 
Actually, judging from Stskeeps' comments on the state of MeeGo on the N900 everything seems to be a bit further ahead than I realised.

I'm actually looking forward to the 1.2 release in April(?) now.

What I'm hoping to get out of MeeGo personally is a "purer linux" than maemo. E.g. proper bluetooth support for keyboards & mice and the ability to cross compile linux apps for the n900 unlike android.

Android is a great linux-based mobile platform but looks so "alien". E.g. no standard libraries mean cross-compiling linux software is almost impossible and means a re-write/re-implementation of existing linux apps. Of course there is that "paranoia" of how much information Google are taking from you too!

I think the next release of MeeGo is going to be the most important release so far - there's a lot to prove.

danramos 2011-01-07 23:22
Re: MeeGo's Community Woes
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnel (Post 913991)
Actually, judging from Stskeeps' comments on the state of MeeGo on the N900 everything seems to be a bit further ahead than I realised.

I'm actually looking forward to the 1.2 release in April(?) now.

What I'm hoping to get out of MeeGo personally is a "purer linux" than maemo. E.g. proper bluetooth support for keyboards & mice and the ability to cross compile linux apps for the n900 unlike android.

Android is a great linux-based mobile platform but looks so "alien". E.g. no standard libraries mean cross-compiling linux software is almost impossible and means a re-write/re-implementation of existing linux apps. Of course there is that "paranoia" of how much information Google are taking from you too!

I think the next release of MeeGo is going to be the most important release so far - there's a lot to prove.
I endorse this message. :) Particularly the 'purer linux' portion and the 'alien'ness of Android. I rather like Android a lot right now, but as I already said for years about Maemo, "if something better comes along, I'm perfectly willing to jump ship--I don't consider myself married to a platform like a lot of fanboys." If MeeGo can impress me and include the features you're suggesting, I will probably jump ship again to MeeGo. Mind you, I'm far more likely to try Intel's solution since I'm skeptical of Nokia's motives after my incredibly negative experiences dealing with them and their hardware support is literally an appalling exercise in futility and insult.

Anyway... here's hoping the best for MeeGo!

nathaneous 2011-01-07 23:30
Re: MeeGo's Community Woes
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 912848)
but it's gonna take a demo of damn near biblical proportions for me to gather any excitement.
Amen to that :D


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