maemo.org - Talk - Nokia, its time to release driver specs!! Open the drivers!!

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- - Nokia, its time to release driver specs!! Open the drivers!! (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84478)

Re: Pls release the source (again)

You have been moved and merged!

Re: Nokia, its time to release driver specs!! Open the drivers!!

Abill_UK's hostile, trolling post was deleted. That sort of thing has gone far beyond an acceptable point.

Maemo.org encourages constructive dialog of all kinds-- emphasis on constructive. And yes that includes harsh criticism. But not when it gets personal. Not when it's repeated ad infinitum.

Let's be civil, or take it to a site that thrives on childish behavior.

Re: Nokia, its time to release driver specs!! Open the drivers!!

All those whiners aboutnokia not opening drivers apps et ? Have they even done any apps for n9?

To me it looks like most of them seems to have no clue about coding anyway?

May i ask you what would you fix if source was opened?? As far as i know the people who has skills has access to some of the code to fix stuff let them doit. Thats one of the reason nemomobile did move forward but it seems to have frozen and why is that? Probadly because people spend to much time here (me included) whine about nokia not open source stuff instead of making a nemo project a real new cool foss project. How cool it could be see harmattan inspired ui on nemo working on n9, n900 but also blackberry playbook hell WANT THAT oh yes :D

All this time could be used to improve ui i. nemo instead.
If you want a open os invest some time on openmode and nemo instead of sitting her and hope for something that never will happen.

Again no company will fully open everything. Stop dream.

Re: Nokia, its time to release driver specs!! Open the drivers!!

everyone is crazy for asking nokia to release the software for harmattan, that is Gold. Just ask them to make another phone instead of asking for the damn software.

Re: Pls release the source (again)

Quote:

Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 1231596)

If you want to do something for this community then i very strongly suggest you get the FULL release of Maemo and Meego source and all components released to this community because untill this happens this community will never put together anything in the way of an OS for any Nokia device.

The Wiki tell's lies by the way because Maemo is NOT developed by this community, how can it be when this community has no access to source from Nokia.

For any developer to do his job then he must have 100% full access to all source and components, without this he can not develop.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maemo

Read the wikipedia entry because it is complete rubbish.....

"Maemo is a software platform developed by the Maemo community for smartphones and Internet tablets.[1] It is based on the Debian Linux distribution, but has no relation to it. The platform comprises the Maemo operating system and the Maemo SDK.

Maemo is mostly based on open source code"

Only when the code is completely open and fall's TRULY into the FOSS catagory will it have any chance of being developed by anyone other than Nokia who hold the source in full.

CSSU prove's that it is just no way possible to develop or improve either Maemo or Meego further than it has been developed by Nokia without full access to source.

Please see this for what it really is now after over 3 years of "development" by this community !!!.

I probably shouldn't actually reply to the angry people here...

But I did fix the Wikipedia article so it clearly states that it was developed by Nokia and improved upon by the Maemo Community.

You don't have to have all the source code to develop FOR the OS, otherwise no one would be able to develop for Windows. On the other hand it's nice to have the source code to develop ON the OS. But closed drivers hardly matter, otherwise there wouldn't be anywhere near as many video games for Linux that use 3D acceleration, because the current open source drivers for Linux pretty much stink on Linux.

Look at how many improvements CSSU has made on Maemo5. The main reason we want the sources to the binary driver blobs is so that we could update the kernel and make it easier to add new features that way. I'm not even a programmer, and I know that.

I could be incorrect, but Hildon itself is open source, which means all the UI stuff could be tweaked, fixed, etc. I wonder if porting it fully to gtk3 or qt4 or 5 would be beneficial.

Really the big thing is to get Hildon / Fremantle ported to use other hardware, in which case again the closed source binary drivers wouldn't stop that, unless the target platform(s) also have closed source binaries.

There already has been a ton of work done to reverse engineer binary blobs to make them open source, like the battery monitor. The open source version actually works much better on my newer N900, which had a horrible bug where it'd be fully charged, but as soon as I disconnected the cable, it said it was completely drained until I rebooted it. The battery patches fixed that!

I think the CSSU project has been phenomenal. Nokia won't help us, they really can't. So crying to them for source code won't do any good. The ones you should be crying to are the hardware manufacturers that they outsourced parts from. They are the ones with the ability to say "sure, we'll give our code to the community."

slaapliedje

Re: Nokia, its time to release driver specs!! Open the drivers!!

Gonna add fuel to the fire, but...

It's been stated over and over that the sources will not be released. In fact, it's been explained logically why. And given who's asking, if it were truly open sourced, what benefit would it have to you directly? That person would still be waiting on the community to give them options.

And at this moment, the community is also in somewhat of peril. Solve the important items first. Ask fully qualified questions that you can participate in.

Re: Nokia, its time to release driver specs!! Open the drivers!!

I think we should get some marshmallows! 'Tis the season for fires anyhow, all the fireworks and dry fields.

slaapliedje

Re: Nokia, its time to release driver specs!! Open the drivers!!

I just felt this should be mentioned here too, so I quoted from here:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stskeeps (Post 1232005)

For the record, I do not have any kind of work affiliation with Nokia anymore and haven't had for several months which means I do not have any Nokia source codes and it would be obscenely against professional ethics to release those if I did have those, as well as illegal.

As I've repeatedly said, the N900 hardware adaptation team for MeeGo (as paid and contracted by Nokia, under NDAs) had access to needed source codes (a limited set) in order to do our work in order to bring MeeGo to N900, N950 and N9. These source codes could never be released for many good reasons. This has been explained over (even in very laymans terms) and over to abill_uk and he hasn't gotten the point or understood anything.

The work we did back then is making sure we can still release Nemo and Mer-based systems for N900, N950/N9.

I'm here as a community member these days and not happy about seeing this place go down in flames. But talking about source codes.. well, let's just say that it's too damn late. IMHO.

I've gone on to help create a better way to make open platforms, see http://www.merproject.org for more details. Maybe you'll have a device based on that one day, in your home, or in your hand (.. or lodged in your brain? :rolleyes:)

Re: Nokia, its time to release driver specs!! Open the drivers!!

Personally, I don't think there's a living soul here(abill_uk included) that thinks it's realistic or even possible to release the source to a community just like that. Or even after the processes suggested.

And it's is a good thing. Nokia should keep it.

Re: Pls release the source (again)

Quote:

Originally Posted by slaapliedje (Post 1231955)

Well well well someone listened and acted, thankyou for that and putting the wiki right !!!.

I have always seen the problems from early on when i joined this community back in feb 2010, and for Nokia to know this community was to develop for the device they manufactured without giving them full access was from my point of view not only stupid but very wrong.

It is the same telling an engineer to populate a pcb with all components and then tell him "oh you are not allowed a soldering iron or solder !!!" rediculous in anyones eyes.

From the start this community had no choice but to reverse engineer component drivers that shouuld have been open to them right from day one, does that not tell you something????.

I am not an angry person believe it or not but i do believe strongly in getting fundermentals right and that is the reason i started the thread to get Nokia to give source, that in turn brought out a lot of truths and arguments and proved to me it was all wrong from the start, Nokia should have developed a device with 100% open component drivers before the idea of a, in this case, a Maemo community to further develop the device in question... the N900.

What should have happened that never did was the council of this community to approach Nokia and call on them to arrange with all 3rd party manufacturers to let open there components for this community, that way this community would have had a fighting chance.

Qgil from the start working with this community knowing full well the problems that occured all the way down the line and never said or did anything to sort out the problems of all the closed source, this is why i have always said it is a joke to get a community involved in further development of Maemo knowing full well the very device to be developed further had many closed components.

Essentially anyone who has a grievence is not allowed to address it direct IF it means bad talk will occur and try to protect the likes of Qgil by either banning, deleteing posts or giving infractions and what for? .... what a joke this community has turned out to be and all because of Nokia and the way they have treated this community right from the start.

The ideal situation never happened... here is the N900 that you can develop and work on, it is completely open and here is the Maemo source code to be getting along with, that way your software and hardware engineers can have everything you need for this development.

Meego is the same as in the N9 that has closed components, stskeeps ridiculed development by saying exacty what was wrong and could do nothing about it because of legal commitments.

The Meego development got so far then stopped, you need to ask yourself why this happened as it was never completed in any way or form for any device, Nokia pulled the plug and the rest is elementry as we all know the situation about Nokia.

It is a crying shame that so many developers got together on this community, realised the problems and in turn slowly left one by one untill only a handfull exist on here today.

I am old school and strongly believe in getting fundamentals right because without them it all falls apart and THAT is exactly what has happened on this community now facing closure because of Nokia who are the problem from the start for many reasons.

IF it had been all open from the start a completely different community would have existed with much success in development of both Maemo and Meego.

SO mr texrat and mr chemist, stay with your stupidity of banning and deleting and giving infractions only to take care of people like Qgil who must not be bothered or talked bad of aye !!!!.

I will watch what happens from here on and always feel sad that it could have been far far different.

Nothing angry about me only sorrow that what could have been is not.