Re: It's over
 

Which is rather sad; Nokia apparently can't seem to market well outside of Europe,
Which is rather sad; Nokia apparently can't seem to market well outside of Europe.

Now such a statement just cannot go unchallenged for its sheer demonstration of insularity. (Unless you think that 'Europe' is that big bit outside the US)

38 million symbian phones shipped from April to June 07. Nokia sold 100 million phones worldwide in q2 worldwide. Thats in 3 months fanboys. Compare that to Apple aiming to sell a paltry 10 million iphones in the first YEAR. Compare that to 40 million ipods sold EVER. We are talking different leagues here people.

BTW Europe is now only Nokias 4th biggest market, after China, India and the USA.

All Apple have really achieved with the iphone was to fragment the American market even further (with blackberry, win mobile, palm and apple slugging it out in the USA for 5% of the worlds population, Nokia are their symbian partners have been quietly wrapping up the rest of the world.)

Re: It's over
 

If the ipod touch had a built in mic and bluetooth so that you could tether it to a phone, I'd buy one. This thing will never be able to run skype. Now, make an iphone without the radio and you'd be talking. I bet they had to skirt around some of the features to appease AT&T.

Anyway, until then, I'll use my N800. Love affairs with technology are notoriously short. Yesterday's iPod is literally going into tomorrow's scrap heap. In a few years it will be the same with our N800s.

Re: It's over
 

Great points, but not to mention the ability to sync all important data. I still think that if the N800 had a real contact/calendar syncing application, it would have gained better traction. I can see the iTouch taking N800 sales. You have iTunes, and the iTouch all in one handy dandy consumer friendly package. Hard to beat. I wonder is Ovi listening. :)

Re: It's over
 

It's called iTunes, and the iTunes Store. An iPod is part of a system, and has an extremely simple workflow that allows even the novice to completely experience all of its (albeit limited) features. Point is, there are little to no unexplored corners, no features wasted and unused. Someone who has never heard of a codec can enjoy feature films, video podcasts and music with a very small learning curve.

To compare, the 770 (and subsequently the N800) was put out there in a let's-see-what-you-can-do-with-this mentality. That's perfect for the tinkerers and hobbyists, but its quite clear that most people are not hackers, computer engineers or programmers. Finding a clear purpose for a device is hard if someone isn't leading the way, especially when there *are* limitations, such as memory and processor-speed. Functions feel unnecessary or poorly-designed. The thing itself feels unfocused.

Promise a slick media experience with effortless synchronization and odds are you can deliver. Promise a complete laptop-like browsing experience in your pocket and odds are you can't.

In summary, it's better to do 50% of things to 100% satisfaction than 100% of things to 50% satisfaction. That's been the success of Apple these days, and why people will flock to an Apple solution -- because of the promise of a complete experience, even if it comes with incomplete functionality.

But incomplete to who? That's the point. We like the ITs because our requirements for features is large. But right now, we're the exception, and in many ways the ITs are ahead of the curve.

Re: It's over
 

Hah, was just thinking about that -- this might be a great time for something to "accidentally" leak out of Nokia HQ, if they know what I mean...

Re: It's over
 

No joke huh, I mean, I bought my N800 because I knew what it could and couldn't do, and it fit just right for me as a sysadmin, but it doesn't mean I have to stick with it.
If Nokia would be up front with it's plans for the N800, I would have a better time recommending it to other (non ubergeek) people. If they were up front, us geeks would stick with it for the long haul, and newcomers would be more apt to purchasing an N800 if they knew where it was going or what special plans were coming up around the bend.

Most geeks see something new and shiny and jump ship to purchase the "next best thing", but just think if we knew that our precious N800 can reinvent itself to become whatever the next big thing is. We would be more likely to stick around for a while and not say "ooh shiny" and jump ship.

Us N800 owners have already taken the plunge and purchased, so just continue to make us happy and let us know of the glorious things to come. The people who are on the fence about purchasing would probably purchase sooner and ride out the development cycles if they knew what this device can do right now, and what it will be capable of doing in the future.

Just my 2 cents.

Re: iPod touch - not bad
 

oops, heh, heh

guess people didn't post it in "Competitors", where i thought it belonged

Re: It's over
 

For one, I think it's too early to say what the quality of the Touch will be like. People bashed Nokia for not making RAZRs-- the RAZR has horrible hinge failure rates and ended up actually doing damage to Moto's bottom line (not for that reason though). People bashed Nokia for bad screens on the tablets-- now the iPhone is exhibiting the same problems. So what is to say that the iPod Touch will not have any defects?

For another, I'm still not convinced that anything has really "gone wrong" for Nokia. Granted, there remain disconnects between what some users demand and what the company supports, but even without anyone proving it to me directly I believe that continued tablet development demonstrates the 770 and N800 were "successful enough". Perfect? By no means! But the computerish attributes of the device have the potential of solving the vast majority of current gripes. The main thing that went wrong was in reverse logistics, and that is improving.

Finally, reviews were actually mixed for the N800. Many professional reviews (such as CNET's) were in fact lambasted by users, who ranked it higher. The majority of overall negative reviews I have seen were written by people who were apparently clueless as to the device's nature and potential. Of course, Nokia must take a large amount of blame there for awkward communications (at best).

What Apple out-executes on is HYPE. They have captured only a small segment of the vast consumer electronics market but carry on as if only they exist. Their loud and loyal fans echo the message. But Sony, Nintendo, Dell, HP and Microsoft might quibble a bit with the over-glorified image of Apple. And while the iPod was certainly a success (now losing share to competitors such as Sandisk), it remains to be seen what the future will bring for Apple. And Nokia as well. I think any predictions of the death of the largest cell phone manufacturer on the planet are a little exaggerated (yeah, yeah, hyperbolic :p).

Just wait. ;)

Re: It's over
 

I knew there were limitations with the 770 when I bought one, but it's even worse that I thought. I can't say I'm all that disappointed though.

Sitting here today with $350-$400 in my hand having experienced what Nokia can do and experienced what Apple can do, would I buy an N800?

For what I want (casual Internet browsing), heck no!

I'd buy the iPhone, hack it to use without the mobile part and wait for the software sim unlock. $349 from Apple for a "refurb", $399 new.

Re: It's over
 

Launch day, and everyone is predicting NIT's untimely death. Can you pull up an xterm on a itouch, iphone or whatever isteve jobs unveils with his cult of mac? I bought a tmobile wing because I didn't want the shortcomings of the iphone (namely no third party apps). Same reason I bought an N800 - The hacker spirit. The Why? Because I can! .. and - can I play doom on it?? Same reason I installed slackware wayy back... Go play in your sandbox - the iphone and all the ieverythings are very nice for that. As for me I choose the command line... </end rant>