Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

:-D

To IT :)

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

And/or 100,000 iphone owners

I am not an Apple or iPhone owner but the more that becomes revealed about this the more the "amazing... Wow" title of the thread is justified.

Does this give the iPhone, to all practical intents and purposes, the capability equivalent to Open Source.

Obviously Apple couldn't give a rat's elbow about potential competition from Nokia, but maybe it has an eye over it's shoulder at the upcoming competition from the Intel MID's.

To quote this commentator
http://www.gottabemobile.com/Video+O...+M528+MID.aspx

"Something is happening behind Intel's Atom branding that's more than just silicon development. There's a software infrastructure building that is big, financially supported and not far removed from the way Apple are doing things with the iPhone. The control is there. The guidelines are there. The restricted hardware set is there. The ISV process seems to be both accessible and well controlled and with 150 people working on the Moblin core and distribution through partners like Canonical and Asianux who are also working on optimisations and UI, you know there's some big numbers involved."

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

It certainly could. :p

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Not the equivalent of a gnu-like system; while you can have open source iPhone apps, you can't (from what I hear) replace any part of existing system software. Some classes of applications are also practically impossible with the SDK.

I'd say it's more like capability equivalent to JavaME hype; that is, what JavaME was supposed to bring before it became so hard to make things run well on diverse phones.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

I think people usually forgot proportions in SJ's RDF :)

That is Nokia which "couldn't give a rat's elbow about potential competition from Apple". Nokia has over 40% of world mobile market. Numbers from few weeks ago showed that N95 alone sold more items than iPhone. And N95 is only *one* model of smartphone from Nokia's quite deep and wide shelf in that segment.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

There is no doubt Nokia sells a crap ton of S60 devices :) Whats funny is that people aren't using the features on them. I know a few girls with N75's here in the US and they have NO idea what the hell S60 is or that they can install apps. To them its just a camera phone and they paid extra for the bigger screen. Its poorly marketed and very confusing for them. These girls all loaded the browser once or twice and just gave up because it was a pain in the *** to use. They pick my iPhone up and they are on Facebook in 5 seconds.

Apple has 2% of the worldwide smartphone market and it has 50 times the web traffic than any other mobile. Google assumed it was an error and had their engineers recheck the data. Haha!

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/667f13de-da6...0779fd2ac.html

Goes to show you that software design is everything. Apple's opportunity here is that they can sell services that people want. Having an AppStore and iTunes Store right there without any configuration is so great. This simply isn't there on any Nokia device S60 or Maemo.

A few taps and you're in a catalog of 3rd party apps. No dependencies, repositories... or digging in your settings to find some setting to allow apps without certificates to install since nothing is really certified. S60 and Maemo are way behind Apple's delivery platform.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Interesting, but in a way, it reminds me of the classic "Is Linux ready for the desktop" news article / blog post. My response is usually to yell at the monitor:
"Who gives a hoot if it's ready for the desktop?! It does what I want it to.
No, on second thought, may it never be ready for the desktop. O Great Modem in the Sky, spare us the torment of n00bish legions who know naught, and yet strive to know less!"

They pick up an iPhone, and in 5 seconds, they're on facebook. They should all buy iPhones. All the smart, or rather computer-competent, people should buy NITs and S60 phones. That'll keep the itT forums sane.

While it's interesting to see iPhones getting far more than their share of use for Google sources, it'd be interesting to see how other devices stack up in terms of googles/month/device sold. I think the N8x0s, even with their limited connectivity, would likely beat them. The iPhone is marketed heavily as an internet device, unlike most smartphones. The NITs are, too, and so a comparison would be interesting. Of course, unless Nokia is publishing sales figures of N800s, we probably can't see any such results. :(

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

My remarks were made in the context of the discussion in this thread, i.e. iPhone vs Nokia Internet Tablet.

In what way could Apple be interested in anything that Nokia is doing with these devices?

Come to think of it, I find it hard to see that even Nokia is much interested either.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

So the rest of the Nokia products get the same crappy marketing and UI treatment as the NIT's. :rolleyes:

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Uhh hows that any different to this

http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008/

you go there on n8*0 click the click to install button and OMG it installs no hassles, it was so hard. Difference is you do not have to get apps from there, you can go to other maemo apps sites, no lock in.

Apples service is not free, you have to pay a fee to get apps hosted, plus they will take 30% of what ever you sell.

They will have no dependencies because every app will be standalone due to restrictions placed on the SDK, of no app being allowed to run in the background and no app being allowed to run another app.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

heh, september that never ended anyone?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

from what i understand, appstore will be a program, kinda like application manager, running on the phone. but probably with the spit polish that apple put on all their ui's...

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

It differs in at least 10 engineer years in R&D of the UI. While I may disagree with their business decisions I usually can not fault their choices and elegance in UI design.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Yeah, don't tell anyone, but Karel Jansens is a secret Apple agent. He's been helping them with that ui work...

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Ah well. That idea seems to be lost on them.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

1. Looks like Apple begun its dance with numbers. "2% of smartphone market". Heh. Target in SJ iPhone keynote was 1% of global market of *all* phones in 2008 - 10mln of sold iPhones. Now look - as of January, after 6 months Apple sold 4mln. It makes expected 8mln without taking into consideration stagnating demand natural in all tech toys. You should add that approximately 25% of that is jailbreaked and don't enter phone market. That means only 6mln *phones* sold, the rest are PDAs. 60% of target. Oops.

2. If you read article without bias you would read also that main reason of internet usage among users was smart packaging and (my guess) relative cheapness of data plan comparing to price of iPhone. Also Apple forced AT&T and other carriers to abandon their own "portals". Don't know how it looks in USA but in Poland users are forced to use telecom portals with categories and all links prepared for users as start pages of Internet. Users *don't need* to use Google to find their content. Even searching is done through that portals so no hits for Google.

My acquitances are buying smartphones for: GPS, PIM, digital camera and video, MMS, Internet is on very distant place. Oh, and big screen is great for viewing photos.

3. There will be repository for iPhones. It will have just different name. And lack of dependencies isn't particularly good. Lack of dependencies means static libraries. Static libraries mean bigger hard disk and RAM usage. I suppose this is behind ridiculous Apple constraints on apps, not some fancy HIG.

This is the only point where I can partially agree with you. Nokia/Maemo desperately needs Maemo Linux distribution with proper hardware infrastructure and manpower behind it.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Exactly. Apple iphone and touch are for noobs who dont have the time or interest to do more than what apple wants them to do. Theya are the ones who would log on to facebook, myspace etc but the internet tablet is for geeks. when properly used it is almost a complete laptop replacement and we geeks like trying out new things just like the general public likes to chat on facebook.

But the problem here is that internettablettalk is a geek website and not for apple style noobs. So how would you expect someone to support apple in our forum? The inverse would happen if i posted about the internet tablet in the iphone trendy forums. Its high time you understood this!!

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Apple's goal was to sell 10 million by the end of 2008 right? They are still on track. What's your point? In the US its something like 28% of the smartphone market. Its definitely a different market here, where Nokia is in the single percent range. Its very likely they will hit 100% of that goal, and if a 3G iPhone hits this year it will probably break right past 100% in the holiday season.

Internet usage... Regardless of the forced portals everyone else has to use, all phone browsers suck, including the S60 one. They are NOT convenient to use, navigation is barely adequate. That is what I was getting at. Having WebKit as the engine alone doesn't make it any good. All the "geeks" throw out is, "S60 uses the same engine as Safari!" but it doesn't change the fact that its no fun to use a joystick and number pad to browse.

This same issue extends into pretty much every aspect of the user interfaces on phones (and N8x0). Poor design and input. The iPhone isn't perfect, but its the first one out there that is actually respectable. You'll notice over the next few years that everything will become similar to it. Flicking, Dragging, Inertia, Finger Input. They have it right.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

And that is what they call RDF. Goal is 10 million *in* 2008.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

It's a matter of public record, Karel, no point hiding it. Just tell us who's doing the polishing, ok?

As for me, at least I'll die in my sleep. Painless that way.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Linux and Open Source people are affected by a much more powerful RDF. They think broken unfinished software is awesome. Features over Quality seems to be the theme, and I am having a hard time subscribing to it.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Wouldn't an RDF, you know, distort reality? You describe a different value system, where people subjectively rank importance of features and "quality" differently than you.

I think you might have meant "UNIX people are affected by a much more powerful philosophy". ;)

It's called "worse is better", and yes, we do have it, thank you very much.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

well as long as someone can come along and eventually fix it, i would not say its broken ;)

look at the recent threads here where people make the usb port go into host mode, enable PAN on bluetooth, and AD2P is coming along as well.

now lets see someone outside of apple do that with the current sdk ;)

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Losing argument and going ad personam? Tsk, tsk.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Going into General Antilles mode:

That statement makes no sense. So when my alternator went on my car it wasn't broken. I wasn't stuck on the side of the road. I did not have to get a battery boost to get to the shop and I did not have to pay 4 bills to get a replacement alternator put in. Nothing was broken.

Wow. I had no clue.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

heh, thats one way of reading my statement...

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Only in the US.

Elsewhere it is VERY different.

Sherifnix's comments are certainly valid, but they ignore the incredible success of Nokia-- which has occurred despite the flaws and misfires we could spend all year picking at. ;)

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Easy now...I'm still surprised this is still going on.

Texrat is correct. Nokia in the U.S. is very very different than Nokia internationally.

I understand both sides completely. We are on different pages.

I am one to argue for finished polish software and UI that works. If I get an iphone, it's because I can easily use it to make phone calls, listen to music/podcasts or watch video, keep my contacts and email in order and occasionally read online newspapers, etc.

It excels at all of those without the pain of tweaking it in order to make it work. It isn't meant to be close to a laptop replacement like the n800 is so dissing the iphone based on that is moot.

Like I said in the beginning, they are two different devices.

If we're going to keep discussing this, we need to make clear what the discussion is about. The title of the thread states that the SDK is awesome and it is. Of course it doesn't please everyone but go to other forums and you will find that plenty of people are excited and ready to embrace it.

The SDK is a great thing for the iphone and will improve it as a device. We've already heard of the many things people have been able to do with jailbroken ones so the potential is there.

Let's stop being ridiculous and move on. Either that or someone else start an iphone bashing thread cuz the title on this one doesn't match the content in the last however many posts (including mine).

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

I was accused of being a Jobs RDF victim, I'm just pointing out that there is definitely two fields crashing together here. It seems people based in the US have a tendency fall under Apple's influence (not all obviously) and European countries have an affluence towards Nokia products.

I myself try to be worldly and consider all my options. I import S60 devices and have purchased every iteration of the Internet Tablets. All said and done though, I end up disappointed, even if its just to affirm my decision in purchasing Apple products =p I prefer to have an informed opinion rather than a ignorant one. I'm also not opposed to using a product other than Apple's if its clearly superior. I have for many years.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Very well stated. All too often, people argue against products that they haven't even used. It's good to see that as you make your statements, you are informed on both products and have used them.

I personally haven't used a Nokia product prior to the n800 and it is a great device. Like you, I see it as a useful device but doesn't do everything I need it to do well. I will still be using it as sort of a laptop replacement when traveling and such but I will be getting an iphone.

To each his own...

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Haha, your reply made me laugh and like most jokes, it has truth in it. It comes down to personal preference. Some people prefer to look at the specs and "potential" of a device rather than what it can do out of the box, what kind of support is provided with it out of the box, etc.

This is one of the clear differences between an "apple fanboy" and "open source geek".

The majority of the public would prefer not to have to develop their own software or wait forever for things to be fixed. I'm somewhere in the middle. In college, I used to love a good late night rumble with linux in order to get something to work...now?...not so much. I don't have time for that...

To each his own...

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Crap . . . I have a mode now? <_<

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Oh please. We were even thinking of creating a Wikipedia article on it. Colleges are considering courses covering it. The US State Department is adopting aspects for diplomatic protocol.

"I have a mode now"... sheesh.

:p

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

That'd be good for a change. Let's go to UN hq and kick some noob posterior!:D

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

I'm behind you all the way!

Far behind, but there nonetheless!

:D

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Yes, here in Germany Nokia doesn't seem to need any advertisements lately.
They didn't even have a real booth on the CeBIT fair,
maybe because they had fear some of the fired employees from the Bochum plant would show up for a visit...


I have to admit they have at least one good product, from the hardware side: the N810 . I can't judge about the other Nokia products.

However in Germany they seem to have lost much of their former good reputation, and nearly noone I was trying to talk about my N810 here in Germany during the last few weeks really wanted to know anything about it, since it was a Nokia.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Well closing a factory (and causing people to lose their livelihoods) after being paid to open one there isn't exactly the greatest thing you can do for PR.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

I was employed at the Nokia factory in the US that shut down, and almost got canned, too... so, yeah, I know first hand how those sentiments come about.

Re: iPhone and iPod Touch SDK is amazing... Wow.
 

Off topic..but I read that the Android SDK has been downloaded 750,000 times compared to the Iphone SDK 100,000 times. The Android SDK has been out longer, but considering it's for devices that don't even exist yet puts things a bit in perpective.