Re: What do we know about Diablo (Maemo 4.1) ?
 

Well, we've known for some time it's just a point release, so I've been anticipating more bug fixes and tweaks than major changes such as those that came with the first release of OS2008. That said, I have been hoping for some substantial improvements in MicroB.

Re: What do we know about Diablo (Maemo 4.1) ?
 

All I want is an improved n810 gps and web browsing experience. Anything additional is gravy.

Re: What do we know about Diablo (Maemo 4.1) ?
 

Right, just bug fixes for a whole lotta bugs which have been keeping some people from upgrading to Chinook. And a new (much better) email client, and a Gecko-based browser coming from upstream equivalent to an FF beta, instead of an early alpha.

1. We've known for some time
2. Why is fixing bugs less "substantial" than adding features?

:confused: It's not clear only in the sense that they're "working on" it, not already done and lounging around on the beach, so it might not get done if they all drop dead.

Re: What do we know about Diablo (Maemo 4.1) ?
 

Why not adding a whole bunch of new bug-ridden features? Mmm, i'll take the bug-free one, thanks a lot :)

Re: What do we know about Diablo (Maemo 4.1) ?
 

Ah, bring that up with Quim Gil. He's already suggested blocking similar, though admittedly, less drastic, behaviour on the part of Nokia's maemo programmers. Perhaps he'll open a bug for "drop dead" also.

Re: What do we know about Diablo (Maemo 4.1) ?
 

I won't comment on the better mail program (I use claws, I tried some modest betas and it disappointed me, however I cannot tell if it's any better than the old one since I never tried it), but I'm not sure the browser has been actually updated:

I agree that fixing bugs is more important than adding features, however it's pretty difficult to fix bugs without changes to buggy applications, isn't it?

Re: What do we know about Diablo (Maemo 4.1) ?
 

Most of the troublesome bugs aren't from applications anyway.

Re: What do we know about Diablo (Maemo 4.1) ?
 

Agreed, all I really need is a better browsing experience, I reflashed to 0s2007 Opera the other day on my N800 and I had forgotten how quick the browsing was, granted the feature set wasn't there. Improved email, GPS acquisition, better (read quicker) browser and better bluetooth stack and IMHO N810 is pretty much ready for mainstream.

Re: What do we know about Diablo (Maemo 4.1) ?
 

Have you considered that the "minor" update of allowing any package (including core packages and kernels) to be updated via apt-get or updated via the Application Manager at any time might fundamentally change how versions are released in the future?

We won't *have* to wait 6-12 months for a firmware that completely clobbers all the customizations that you've done. That kind of flexibility will allow each package to get updated separately as they need to be.

I don't like having to wait a long time for a ton of updates to come simultaneously. I hope Nokia runs with this concept and brings more frequent, smaller updates that will be less disruptive and easier to troubleshoot if problems do occur.

Re: What do we know about Diablo (Maemo 4.1) ?
 

That's pretty much what I've been waiting for, to the point of being reprimanded here for asking it too many times (actually two), but it seems we won't get that with diablo. No new browser engine, no apt-get upgradeability.

I'd be delighted to be proved wrong though.

Re: What do we know about Diablo (Maemo 4.1) ?
 

Seems to me the upgrade will be working after Diablo as planned... The seamless upgrade was not intended to work for a transition between Chinook and Diablo.

Re: What do we know about Diablo (Maemo 4.1) ?
 

It depends on how you interpret for releases that come after Diablo: it can either be that you can transition from Diablo to Diablo+1 with apt-get or that you'll be able to do it only from Diablo+1 to Diablo+2.
I guess we'll have to wait and see. Edit: since I don't like to wait, I asked on the mailing list :D

Re: What do we know about Diablo (Maemo 4.1) ?
 

Where did you hear you won't get that with Diablo? I thought the whole "seamless software updates" were the big "new" thing being pushed into Diablo.

Re: What do we know about Diablo (Maemo 4.1) ?
 

Fanoush also asked about the browser, so we'll see.

Re: What do we know about Diablo (Maemo 4.1) ?
 

Well, I thought those words were written by a developer, not a politician, so I thought they just meant what they seemed to, in the context of that e-mail.

Perhaps I was wrong; guess , and/or believe the quotes here: http://www.internettablettalk.com/20...max-announced/

Re: What do we know about Diablo (Maemo 4.1) ?
 

The possible answer is hidden in different reply
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp....mo.devel/15402

"From a technical perspective, the browser team did not have enough
time/resources to merge to trunk (nor was there a stable trunk of any
value until long after we were frozen) and get any work done for diablo.
We therefore had to choose not to merge to trunk and plan to do it for a future release. "

My understanding of this is "still same old browser code" in Diablo.

Re: What do we know about Diablo (Maemo 4.1) ?
 

So here are the major features for Diablo

SSU
MicroB updates
Modest - If it's ever ready
Rfcomm - ? was this slated for Diablo

SSU will make it in, but won't that just encourage Nokia to release the "almost-but-not-quite-ready" stuff?

Re: What do we know about Diablo (Maemo 4.1) ?
 

So, if we have SSU, MicroB is an easy decision - postpone it... ;)

EDIT: btw, MicroB will have at least... enhancements. One of which is... kinetic scroll... :(

Re: What do we know about Diablo (Maemo 4.1) ?
 

Great, another half-baked idea that won't work correctly in the first 2 releases. Is Nokia trying to make every good feature of this device suck even more than it does now?

Re: What do we know about Diablo (Maemo 4.1) ?
 

I am still holding out hope that the "Navigation software gets an upgrade." mention here:
http://www.internettablettalk.com/20...wimax-edition/
and here
http://www.internettablettalk.com/fo...2&postcount=18
is significant. i.e. updated maps and improved acquisition times for the n810

Re: What do we know about Diablo (Maemo 4.1) ?
 

We can hope that SSU will decouple MicroB from the big dot releases, so maybe we'll see a real update in a month or two. :\

Re: What do we know about Diablo (Maemo 4.1) ?
 

Thanks for that; disappointing.

From the linked email:Which does seem to explain some things; Nokia considers point releases differently than, say, Microsoft, where we have NT 5.0, 5.1, and 5.2 all billed as completely new releases, and with the versioning very much swept under the rug.

Re: What do we know about Diablo (Maemo 4.1) ?
 

That is my hope.

It seems that the browser team couldn't get synced to the new mozilla stuff in the trunk because of the early internal development freeze imposed by everything else. With everything independently update-able, they might be able to reduce the freeze->release time somewhat.

In the worst case, at least making beta builds/releases might be easier for them now. Those previous beta releases indicate a slowly shifting development culture within Nokia but it has some ways to go to match upstream.

Re: What do we know about Diablo (Maemo 4.1) ?
 

Version numbering is mostly a marketing thing, it would seem. Very different from project to project and very subjective. There are some stability-based versioning schemes out there but you still have to know the specific project cultural knowledge to know what they mean by version 2.9.

I kind of like the more objective, date-based versioning that Ubuntu and Gentoo use. Doesn't really tell you about the stability of it, but if every project used this at least you would roughly know what version of some dependency should go with what. Not perfect but better.

Re: What do we know about Diablo (Maemo 4.1) ?
 

I remember reading that Nokia was going to port it to ARM..

http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2097004728.html

Re: What do we know about Diablo (Maemo 4.1) ?
 

Me too. I really want to buy the navigation but when I've tested it
the software was sadly outdated, it shows petrol stations thats
been closed for at least 5 years and routing repeatedly
suggested making illegal turns ...

I want a single unit, but since a nüvi 205 costs just
a little more than the 3 year wayfinder license I guess its
no deal unless the software is considerably improved.

Is anybody in a position that can confirm that the navigation software will be updated ?

Mikael

Re: What do we know about Diablo (Maemo 4.1) ?
 

Has this been posted already?

http://mariusv.wordpress.com/2008/05...sant-surprise/

Re: What do we know about Diablo (Maemo 4.1) ?
 

**** ****.

I'm doing it now, thanks ;)

(Thank God I use Linux as primary OS)

Ok, lifeguard reset is disabled. I'm now going to move the archives folder.

Wait, I need to read better:
*

Re: What do we know about Diablo (Maemo 4.1) ?
 

Looks like they're on target for trunk with Diablo+1, anyway, though I couldn't get an answer out of timeless re SSU and decoupled updates. . . . Doesn't leave me particularly hopeful for avoiding Nokia's glacial release cycle.

Re: What do we know about Diablo (Maemo 4.1) ?
 

Some of the more adept readers might have noticed that the Hildon App Mugger comes with 3 repositories preconfigured:

• Nokia catalog
  http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/certified/
• Nokia catalog (3rd party software)
  http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/non-certified/
• Nokia System Software Updates
  Oh, wait, I can't edit this one. Or delete it, either.
  Need deep magic from the dawn of UNIX for this:
  
  Code:

  ---

  cat /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list

  ---

  shows, among other things:
  
  Code:

  ---

  deb http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/updates/chinook/ ./

  ---

Well, I haven't the slightest clue where the correct repo is for Diablo, but if anyone comes up with any ideas involving 'sed s/chinook/diablo/' or equivalent, I suppose they could try them. ;) (Hope mvo doesn't get in trouble over this...)

Re: What do we know about Diablo (Maemo 4.1) ?
 

**** me, Benson, you found it!. I <3 you. I'm gonna start updating. Time to disable lifeguard and DownThemAll the dpkg files incase they get deleted.

Re: What do we know about Diablo (Maemo 4.1) ?
 

Ummmm... not sure if that's a tangent, or if I'm unclear here; you don't need app mugger to do it; that's just how I figured it out... And if you were to somehow go through with a Diablo upgrade, you'd have the new package manager.

Edit: OK, you got the idea now.

Re: What do we know about Diablo (Maemo 4.1) ?
 

Yep, I realised you found the source :). Good job, I'm still on stock kernel and initfs.

I have 654 packages to download :D. I'll post the progress here once it's installed.

Re: What do we know about Diablo (Maemo 4.1) ?
 

Installing . . .

Re: What do we know about Diablo (Maemo 4.1) ?
 

All I can say is that Diablo SSU update files are "in the wild". I just updated my N800 from earlier Diablo to the latest Diablo yesterday, at home, using SSU... :)

Also the System Software repository can be edited: I did that before... when trying the Chinook betas. Somewhere in the system is a text file that contains all the repository information. There is one line that makes any particular repository "locked" or not. Just editing that text file, and then saving, you can edit the System Software repository.

Sorry, do not remember where the file is... it is so long time I did work with that.

Re: What do we know about Diablo (Maemo 4.1) ?
 

Nice, my N800 is now force installing the debs. I can tell you they include a Chinese font now too :) And gcc is installing too :/

And my N800 is white screened. Reflashing and trying again.

Re: What do we know about Diablo (Maemo 4.1) ?
 

How do you do that? I saw 2 million files in the package, you do something like dpkg -i ...?
And qwerty12 too, may I join the party :D ?


TIA,

bun

Re: What do we know about Diablo (Maemo 4.1) ?
 

I guess that repository is just for upgrades to diablo (not starting from chinook), however the "normal" repositories for diablo are also live (no need to guess anything, the directory is browseable).
BTW, did anybody notice those diff files?

Re: What do we know about Diablo (Maemo 4.1) ?
 

Linking again since nobody noticed it the first time.

http://mariusv.wordpress.com/2008/05...sant-surprise/

Re: What do we know about Diablo (Maemo 4.1) ?
 

look at the link at the bottom. dont use dpkg to do it. I'm reflashing and doing it with apt.