Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

You mean the prediction by a Pat Buchanan that someday GW Bush would be remembered as the new Mahatma Gandhi (if McCain is elected) ? :-)

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

I've argued hard against a sim slot in the past. However, as far as I'm concerned they can put whatever they want in it as long as I'm not forced to use the feature (and that's arguably true about e.g. a sim slot), provided that:

1) The inclusion of said hw feature doesn't take away room so that the device is otherwise crippled due to lack of space, e.g. removing an SD slot or putting in a sub-sized one (aka crippled SD).
2) The price isn't increased so much that I end up paying a lot extra for features I don't want or need.

The N810 failed on both points. It came out more expensive than the N800 was, although not prohibitively so. The keyboard is useful to a lot of folks, the GPS is, let's be honest, just so much junk. A much better GPS receiver can be bought for way less than the price difference between the N800 and the N810.

I just want an improved N800, to be honest. With all the features that make the N800 good, plus omap3 and if possible a bit more RAM. If I, to get that, would have to buy a device with lots of extras I don't want or need, so be it. I'm a grown up man with a job, I can in principle afford to pay whatever it costs. What I'm really worried about is point 1) above. Don't cripple the device and I promise to buy it. I'm not too hopeful though, but there's some comfort in Texrat's notion of a family of devices.. we'll see, I guess.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

At least it seems there is a future now. the things we learned yesterday and today make me believe there is quite a number of people at Nokia working hard on Maemo right now. The last releases where nice, but not really exciting in terms of platform architecture.

So while I don't really like some of the decisions made, it all shows they're willing to invest money. And that's good.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

A question about timelines.

Both Quim and Ari seem (to me) to be talking about a phase 5 device that does not even exist in breadboard form at this time. Most folks here seem to be talking about a new tablet that they expect in a few months (at most) time.

If there is going to be an N9xx device released Q4/08 or Q1/09, wouldn't this be a phase 4 device - which would not have the features that Ari described?

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

We hit this subject before, but depending on the region, there are varying levels of control that a carrier can have over what is on their network.

In the US there are FCC and carrier level 1 tests that all phones must pass to be used here. Carrier level 2 tests are the ones that put the phone on the carrier deck (in retail stores, marketing, etc.).

For the N95 and several Nokia devices, they not only had issues with carriers, but also the Qualcomm issue (which is now solved) as barriers to entry. For the most part though, they should be fine now that there is a settlement.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

I have the impression that they (at least Ari) weren't talking about a device at all, but about software. When you read them referring to #5, it's because it's Maemo version 5 (OS2008 being based on #4). This doesn't necessarily have anything to do with a "step 5"-device: OS2008 (Maemo4) runs on the N800, still the N800 isn't "step 4".

(Except you think of the "steps" as steps in software rather than steps in hardware.... which might be reasonable because in the end it's software that matters.)

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

And no openings for anyone in the US! :p

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

You noticed that too :o

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Please don't read too much into that (anyone). For instance, the 770, N800 and N810 constitute a family. I personally wish that there would be a future, improved N800 but I have no concrete knowledge of such a thing and couldn't say if I did.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Alright... I know my opinion doesn't really mean anything anymore considering that I haven't really been a part of the community since the beginning of the year and haven't held a tablet in my hands since January (yeah, still waiting on my developer's discount to... you know, work), but I'll give my opinion anyways.

I used to think that adding cellular connectivity was a bad thing, but my perspective's changed quite a bit during these tablet-less months. Makes me think about a few other previous attempts, like the OGO messenger. I like the idea of being connected anywhere without needing a cell phone. My one and only worry about it has nothing to do with Nokia and there's nothing Nokia can really do to remedy it: the extremely high cost of data in Canada.

I think we all knew from the start that this was where the tablet line was going to be heading. You've got all this power and connectivity in the palm of your hands... of course you're going to want to have it connected at all times. When I had my N800, I seriously considered buying one of those mobile hotspots along with a cell modem just so that I could keep myself online wherever I was.

Honestly, if they didn't go in this direction... I don't really know how much further they could take the tablet line without heading into a brick wall. Adding more and more multimedia capabilities and internet capabilities just leads to wanting and needing to be connected more and more often... so adding cellular (or WiMax) connectivity just makes sense.

I can already see my monthly usage fees skyrocketing. :)

I'm feeling pretty encouraged by the announcements that have been coming out... just makes me that much more excited for the Maemo summit.

(Tex, I've been trying to get a hold of you for ages... your PM box has been full for months!)

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

I can't take an ounce of credit for any of that, though. I think I got a few bugs fixed... :D

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

The DevSesh this morning was really pushing... all data all the time via HSPA so you should design your applications based on that. While the conic stuff will still be there there is already a push for data rich ( broadband speeds ) applications.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Quit beating yourself up. That's your wife's job. :p

Seriously, Jay, your opinion will always count. You've been a huge help to the community and that doesn't evaporate simply because you're on vacation. Heck, I had big plans for jablet.net and have had no chance to act on them for some time. But hey... never say never!

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

I paid for my Nokia cellphone with prepaid card for around 30€.
I can't believe that regulations would make the next Tablet over 20€ more expensive.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

There are 802.11g CF cards which can be used in Zaurus - I have one of them.
SL-6000 has on-board wifi which is a crap (can not do WPA). And with sleeve you can have 2 CF slots (also 2 batteries).

Last Zaurus was SL-3200 (terrier). The line of Zauruses is: SL-A300 (rare device), SL-5000/5500, SL-5600, c700, c750, c760/860, SL-6000 (few variants), SL-C3000, SL-C1000, SL-C3100, SL-C3200.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Interesting; it would seem that the idea of using cellular as an accompanyment to context/LBS apps is something that developers are being made to look at. With an addition of a database on the local device, this could be pretty interesting for the non-broadband, yet connected anyway kinda apps and service-integration-points.

Any word at this point as to how maemo will address making documentation (for developers) and reporting bugs (for end-users) a cleaner aspect of the development process for maemo going forward?

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

What exactly do you mean?

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Before the rebranding, there was some talk of Bugzilla not being a friendly place to submitting issues, and it possibly seeing some retooling. Reporting bugs is one of the most important aspects of an agile development model, which is what the maemo team uses. Is that part going to address the ability to end users to seek and easily report bugs, or stay as it is for mainly developer attention?

The other fun part of agile (iterative) development is documentation. Developers have long complained about aspects of the OS not having sufficient documentation and therefore its harder to make and not break aspects of the core system when trying to extend its functionality. From my own observation of what documentation is out there, it sucks. Has or will maemo modify its efforts in this area so that developer confusion is less of an issue?

The latter question teeters on internal conversations that might not be ready for public knowledge; though at a developer convention, I would expect that some high level aspect of this would be talked about seeing that what has been spoken so far has been about vision casting and garnering more momentum for the upcoming platform advancements.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Anyone know how the next tablet will be better/different than the HTC Touch HD (apart from OS)? I just read the hardware specs today and I'm impressed. Ive been an early adopter of Nokia tablets but the HTC touch HD seems to do everything the n9x0 will, plus voice? I'll buy one of these gizmos depending on availabilty and price.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Way faster CPU?

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

At this point, the only differences that can be discerned are in operating system (open source with propietory parts versus closed source and licensing model with ODM modifications key to differentation), and availability. But its pretty clear that they are going for similar markets.

HTC might get a few more looks because they are aiming more for those who are iPhone-fans, and then also grab developers who already are familiar with the MS development environment. Devices like this and a few other WM devices are going to blurr the line between smartphone and tabletPC/UMPC all the more though, and that will work out great for end-users.

Maemo will have to do some work on the UI side if they see this and other devices as competitors.

EDIT: the HTC HD will have a 562Mhz CPU, not way faster, but faster than what we have seen from IT devices so far. The key is to understand that with mobile devices, fast CPUs are nothing if the system cannot take advanage of it. WinMobile needs a fast CPU for many tasks because of how its built. If HTC is keeping the ability of the process to scale, then that max speed rating is just max, not consistent.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

That's an ARM11 562MHz, significantly slower than the 600MHz Cortex A8 in the OMAP3430.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Thanks for the clarificaiton in the raw speeds; I'd neglected to look at the chipsets that would be used for the next IT beyond branding names.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Nowadays, apparently. Do you saturate the connection though? Is it supported on all the ROMs/kernels? Are there CF 3G cards?

Interesting. That does open possibilities. Apparently the SL6000 didn't sell well though. My IWL 2200 CF (used on Zaurus) wasn't able to do WPA2 either, but I worked around that. If your device doesn't support WPA2 and you build your own *BSD based AP you can add a authpf(8) + ipsec(4) (or userland VPN daemon). It shouldn't be too hard to make this work together with Linux & IPTables + VPN/IPsec, or (Open)Solaris & IPF + VPN/IPsec. In the future, this might be useful when you're using 3G which provides no encryption. Instead of a VPN at home I'll just use a VPN on a 100 mbit server in a local serverpark though; less lag.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

WPA does not, as far as I know, need hardware support in the wi-fi chipset/card -- it's a feature of the wi-fi driver. So the SL-6000 should be able to support WPA, with the right software.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Hi,

Interesting reading here, and I assume this thread is far from over too.

I am new to the platform having just bought A N800 last month and am really enjoying learning from the ground up having no linux experience prior.

Now, If I had been aware of the changes with the addition of the hspa radio that has A lot of members riled up, I may have avoided this and gone with A netbook or similar item.

If I had done this, I would have missed out on A great device, promising platform and lots of excitement over learning A new system.

I hate cell phones and the horse they rode in on too.

But, based on comments made by Texrat and AJWright, the new addition is more of A move from traditional cell phone service and more towards using that capability over the internet and locking out the cellular service providers now that are greedy b**tards.

If this is accurate, I am very interested in seeing where it goes.

I took A leap with my N800 purchase and am prepared to take the leaap here too.

My needs have been better Multimedia capabilities, mostly speed and more formats.

I browse the Net, read books, stream video, read the occasional comic book, listen to music so my needs are more to address those needs.

I am seeing the addition that is being hotly debated here as being A more inclusive item than An exclusionary one.

Guess only time will tell.

As I said above, I am A noob to the format but have seen other platforms not change and become obsolete as A result.

No one can sit here, and foresee the future and tell whether it is A good change or not but having A closed mind will surely limit the chances of it succeeding.

I am going into this, phone aversion noted, with an open mind as I really am enjoying the Platform.

Now for the dissenters to rip me apart.


David

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Most don't mind the phones, its the $$$ and carriers that are a trip.

Its not so much locking out the carriers that needs to happen, nor that I am supposing. Its more the idea of leveling the playing field between manufacturers and carriers towards a market model that will enable manufacturers to make more of a return on their work than what carriers allow right now. Nokia has the brand-reputation to possibly pull this off short term, but long term other chips need to fall. Their open source play is indicitave of something more long range, that hopefully doesn't look like the castle they seem to be attempting to take down.

The next 5-7 years (barring the rest of the predicted future) should be interesting in mobile/mobile-life.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

I only want to rip you apart for capitalizing your articles (A and An).

It's hard to read you post. My internal reading voice sounds silly because it emphasizes in the wrong places.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Au contraire, the Maemo Software team is ramping up offices in Mountain View and there are many positions open.

http://yannickpellet.blogspot.com/20...alifornia.html

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

...and the right hardware.

WPA is useless. You want WPA2.

wpa_supplicant has to support the hardware. It doesn't support Orinoco or the on-board WLAN which uses wlan_ng driver. Here is a 2004 review of Zaurus SL6000. The C-series have a clamshell. If you open it the normal way you get screen + keyboard. You can turn the screen around and put the backside of the screen on the keyboard, making it smaller and stylus-only. You can rotate the screen since it supports rotation (manually; not with accelerator). the C-series don't have on-board WLAN or BT so for any wireless functionality you'd need a CF card whereas it only has 1 CF slot. Not nice IMO.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Cool. If only I was able to relocate (I love Mountain View). I'm stuck in north Texas.

But hey-- my office is in Dallas, current team is in Helsinki, and I work from home over half the time anyway, so one never knows... :D

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Then why those same carriers should offer affordable data rates to use with such modem?
If they do, I bet they will ban voip, both in their TOS and by heavily filtering the service.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

1) before I respond, be aware that you've gone way off topic. maybe next time you can start a new thread...

2) don't buy a handheld touch screen device based primarily on hw specs or functionality checklists. I can think of no other category of device where the OS and UI are more important.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

As others have noted, US data plans may not be on par with those in Europe but there are some here that are reasonable.

While carriers may not always subsidize wifi-enabled phones, they don't block them from the networks outright (I was using my N80 with the Fring service for a while on AT&T).

So far the carriers have managed to anger US citizens but not enough for outright rebellion. If they go as far as you are betting, then that will be the last straw. Already one California court has struck down a seemingly solid principle of US carrier tactics (early termination fees). More to come. The tide is turning, and if the carriers resist, they will lose.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Hi,

I always capitalize a standalone a, the capitalized one in an was a mistake.

I can see where it may make things difficult.

Thanks for the insight.

When I post here on this site, I will try to do lower case because it looks like a few others agree with you, based on the "thanks" you got for your post.

Thanks to ARJWright for the clarification to my earlier post.

David

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

We noticed. But why? It's completely non-standard and does make your posts rather hard to read.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Hi,

Habit.

Please read the post you quote from, I expanded my reply there.

David

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Isn't that a hanging offense?

Oh wait-- that's for prepositions that are ended with.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Linuxdevices.com article: Nokia Linux tablets go 3G, OMAP3

More news sources here.