Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

Doesn't understand too ...

I hope not ... i prefer that they keep the current display size...

To be honest i think there will be a break in the community ... but look at Palm OS device ... you can't update the system, and there is also many break in the api (in two way).

But i hope Mer will be a success ...

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

Mono is the future :-)

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

Angstrom was console mode only on the Collie when I left the community. Opie was "dead".

Ah,, GPE, that was it. Maybe the logo confused me - look at the Gnome logo side by side witht he GPE one. Remove the thumb... hmmm...

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

We aren't the 1rst april !

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

Yeah, I remember Miguel saying this back in 2003. He must have meant the distant future, because it's already five years later now... :P

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

Hum ... no alarmd in the actual sdk ? not integrated yet ? or does it have been deleted ?

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

Not integrated yet. Will come with improvements.

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

Answering eiffel:

> For example, knowing that the screen resolution, screen size and
> included browser are no worse than the current ones would be
> enough.

The Maemo 4.1 browser is still performing quite good compared to the alternatives fitting in your pocket and of course the browser shipped with Maemo 5 will be much better.

There are different opinions about what is better and worse about screen resolutions and sizes. Maemo has a flexible UI that can handle many resolution sizes and X/Y combinations. 800x480 is serving well the compromise between computer & Internet experiences and users pockets and eyes and keeps being the default assumption.

Hardware details to be shared when a new devices is announced.

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

whan can we upgrade to the maemo 5?

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

We won't be able to "upgrade" to Maemo 5. We will either have to get a new device (to be released sometime this year) or use Mer to get many of the Maemo 5 features on the current devices.

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

That will make me REALLY ANGRY. All those bugs marked closed / Fixed in fremantle but won't be available to current owners.

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

you have every right to be angry about this. i am, too. especially since nokia already treated me this way when i had my 770. they suddenly dropped support (with no good reason, although they tried to make up some excuses) and announced new OS-updates would be for the N800 only. there was an uproar, nokia said they'd learned from it and promised not to do this again. now here we are.

on the one hand, it shows nokia still thinks of the tablets as "embedded devices", similar to phones where the firmware is tightly connected to the hardware. they still, after all these years, haven't understood their own products.

on the other hand, this time it's a little different:
the number of alternative operating systems for the tablets grows. many are not end user ready, but make good progress. most importantly, there's mer, a project supported by nokia. mer will be as close to fremantle as you can get, but very independent from nokia's management decisions.

so while i'm angry, too ("fool me once,... fool me twice,..."), i make up excuses for nokia (they sure had to cut costs, too. maemo seems to be doing well inside nokia ATM, but probably the responsible managers face cuts in their budgets as everybody else nowadays). and i take comfort from following mer's steady progress. these guys are doing a great job, and probably they'll deliver what nokia can't.

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

Not only they did it again, they did it even worse this time :-) There was Elephanta OS version planned/promised for N8x0 which was later canceled. They never promised OS2007 for 770. They did promise longer roadmap for N8x0 than delivered. Also there are now unconfirmed hints that there won't be any more Diablo update so we are left with half broken version with many bugs not present in Chinook. One needs to choose from two OS2008 versions both with different set of bugs in two main applications (browser, email client).

Still, they did many things really well and are opening more and more stuff which indeed helps. Supporting Mer effort is far more effective than doing any hacker editions of OS inside Nokia.

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

mer is a great project. We should have cautious optimism here about the level of support from nokia. AFAICT, we are still waiting for them to release some components and some vital 3rd party elements, such as flash, for use in mer.

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

i should have said "encouraged" rather than "supported", maybe. - well, i'm still optimistic, you see. don't know why. :D

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

This has absolutely nothing to do with Nokia and everything to do with Adobe. If you want to see it, bug Adobe.

No, "supported" is the right term (actually, "is supporting" would be even better).

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

:confused:

Here is a direct quote from qgil:

"We asked the Mer team to list the *3rd party* closed source packages they need, since they don't belong to Nokia and therefore we need to make sure the owners are fine with the deal.

For instance, Flash belongs to Adobe and Skype belongs to Skype Inc. The agreements signed with these companies are framed for official releases going through a quite demanding quality process. If Nokia would let the Mer team (or whoever) grab those binaries for other purposes then those agreements would be in trouble, affecting e.g. the negotiations for Fremantle."

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

Yeah I made an @ss of myself and got the Mer team angry at me, because I was all confused about what components were being discussed, and what Nokia was offering, and what the Mer team was asking, and, well, everything; I mouthed off about stuff I didn't understand. One good thing that (perhaps) came of my thick-headedness was qgil's excellent explanation, quoted by SD69 above.

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

Your accusation seemed to be that Nokia wasn't really helping much, giving 3rd-party stuff as an example. In the end, the decision to allow distribution of the licensed 3rd-party components doesn't belong to Nokia, it belongs to the owners of those 3rd-party components. Nokia's doing what it can to make it happen, but any lack of progress isn't to be blamed on Nokia (as you did).

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

And likely, end-user pressure on the third parties will be more effective than pressure on Nokia for non-Nokia components. In other words, Nokia telling the third parties, "Hey, our users want this," will have more meaning if the third parties also hear from actual users who, yes, "want this".

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

But since both nokia and the third parties already have our money, they won't really care.

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

It would be very helpful if someone posted some way of doing what sjgadsby suggests. How would we go about contacting these folks and showing our support?

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

Since Skype, for example, gives away their client and sells service for it, wouldn't they have at least a slightly higher potential for profit from Mer users by having the client on the platform then by not?

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

They distribute the binary themselves, anyway, so there isn't actually a licensing issue with Skype.

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

Conventionally, you would set up a non-profit (Mer Foundation, etc.). Contacting people like Skype is easy if you are professional about it. You wouldn't have to show "support"; the Mer Foundation would be in a position to directly license from Skype (or whomever).

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

I didn't accuse Nokia of not really helping much, nor did I blame them for lack of progress. I said "cautious optimisim". Try reading my statements (and statements of others) without any predilection.

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

Perhaps GA should have used the word "imply" instead of "accuse".

The bottom line is whatever rights Nokia negotiated for the use of third party code are not transferable.

BTW dude, ???

Who are you speaking for?

Are you also a Lawyer? Have you ever tried to negotiate with a corporation for code on behalf of a not for profit or non profit organization having 0 (zero) assets? How did that work out for you?

Just wondering. :)

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

Well one can always hope that a presumed future Skype-for-Fremantle would run as-is on Mer-for-omap2. At least that's the sort of thing I'm hoping for (and not just for the closed source stuff).

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

Unless it is compiled with optimizations for the newer processor...

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

There was no new relase since December 2007 and nothing on their forums and bugtrackers suggesting the Maemo port is alive. It seems they had a deal with nokia to provide skype for the N810 and that they did, and not an inch more. They did not manage even say a 'sorry' or 'working on it' for the appaling lack of features (and the faulty ones). So, no messages while talking, no DTMF tones, no file transfer, no video, no cpu idle when idling, and the list goes on... After such a track record, optimizations for a new processor would be nothing short of a miracle (for me).

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

I can't seem to chroot into the Alpha Maemo 5 SDK rootfs, as provided by Nokia, from the tablet. I just get a "Invalid Instruction" when I try.

I didn't pursue that idea any further because I assumed that binaries compiled for OMAP3 must not be compatible with the OMAP2 chipset. Was I wrong? Is the problem the way I tried to get the rootfs? Should I try the instructions given for building a rootfs for the Maemo on Beagleboard project?

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

But they did with the OS2007 version of Skype.

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

Well, it looks from here like Skype-for-N8x0 is dead and abandoned, but there have been some noises about Skype working on a generic client for ARM netbooks. It's possible that such a project is underway, and that it would be able to run on the RX-51, and probably the N8x0 as well.

I really have a hard time seeing Skype let the RX-51 go without Skype, though; with HSPA data connectivity, but no voice service, it's the ultimate VOIPphone to date, and if Skype is available like on the N8x0, they automatically pick up most of that business. If it ships with no Skype client available, I think a lot of folks will take the plunge to find a SIP providers and use SIP + Google Voice, and many of them will find it better and leave Skype forever. I just hope this means a decent and flexible ARM Skype client, not a lame repackaging of the existing binaries.

(Speaking of Google Voice, it's good to finally see some progress -- I've been signed up for ages to be notified as soon as GrandCentral opens back up.)

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

Are you sure about the ARM port ? They seem to be concentrating MID efforts on Intel. And even there, they go as far as to openly say the MID version will not have PulseAudio support as it is 'not required' by the MID devices. VOIP applications on a RX51 are a natural fit for Skype but their commitment to Linux is flaky at best even on the desktop (seriously, will we ever see 64 bit packages ?). Me, I expect a too little too late approach on ARM netbooks, and then if they *do* come through it will be a pleasant surprise.

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

No, I'm not sure -- "heard noises about" is all. The MID (Intel branding for N8x0-like devices) port is a definite reality, and definitely x86 only.

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

I would love to see your source for that. Because if they aren't supporting PulseAudio, that suggests they aren't going to be making a version for Maemo 5... Unless they do some hack using PulseAudio's compatibility mode...

...that's pretty disappointing news.

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

If there's no Skype on the new NIT hardware, no new NIT for me; or else I buy the new NIT and find a different VOIP, and Skype can kiss my *** goodbye.

BTW, I've tried Sype-through-Fring on my girlfriend's iPod Touch, and it just hangs.

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

nobody says maemo here, but if you look at the wording ("range of mobile computers"), it's not completely unlikely that the next maemo device is covered by the same deal. if not, there could have been a similar deal before. skype will not refuse to write a specific client if they get payed for it.

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

i would love to see someone lean on skype to get some kind of generic access going. as it stands, they are the microsoft of voip...

Re: Maemo 5 Reveals its Features
 

thats a good quote to dig up.
but looking at the dates, we may not see skype until the 3rd quarter of 2009...