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-   -   Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=82014)

zwer 2012-02-03 04:41
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
XNA on the WP is not the same as general XNA - a lot of functionality is missing, and there are some non-general API layers for the Metro tie-in. That's why I said - the ones willing to go down that route.

Tho the numbers don't really matter, a good programmer will master a new API or even a whole new programming language in relatively short time. Script kiddies won't, but I don't think that their apps is what the world is craving for. While there might well be more Qt devs than the ones suitable to develop for WP, after the Feb'11 announcement I doubt many of them would use their knowledge to develop mobile apps... So, not all is in numbers...

P.S. Mono lineage is almost dead (interest-wise), tho the Silverlight was an abortion as well until they forced it onto WP...

ibrakalifa 2012-02-03 05:43
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
lets talk about the hardware in the n9 please, its same set with lg optimus black, and funniest thing is nokia sold it with overpriced one, what a holy crap!!

ossipena 2012-02-03 06:23
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamGan (Post 1159297)
You are the one who should educate yourself. Vertu sales in units are small but they are sold at big profit margins. To quote from gsmarena

"Vertu’s profit, as part of Nokia, isn’t public yet, but the paper estimated an annual revenue somewhere between €200m and €300m ($268 million and $402 million)"

If you think WP7 sales will follow iphone's trend just go on dreaming. On what basis will it follow iphone?
So you think that nokia won't get paid for vertu according to those revenues?

ossipena 2012-02-03 06:29
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wizard of Huz (Post 1159314)
Sales taking off has more to do with being available in many more international markets and the arrival of iPhone 3G with a LOT of improvements that made iOS (more?) mature with native apps and appstore. Besides it's more like 1 year in stead of 2.
So you think there will be zero improvements to WP7 in the future? No new content to whatever their appstore is called?

No matter how much iOS has improved, it cannot match (yet) with microsofts cloud systems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wizard of Huz (Post 1159314)
And at the launch of iPhone it was already clear after a couple of months that the device was a killer. can't compare that situation to WP7/Nokia now.
When looking to the past now, it is obivous that there were signs in couple of months that correlate very strongly to the success. This is just a strong indicator for the fact that you are the one who needs to study more economics.

ibrakalifa 2012-02-03 06:46
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
WP is suck!! linux is for the future!!!

ossipena 2012-02-03 06:53
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rm42 (Post 1159686)
  • Integration with MS version of DropBox, Skydrive
What do you mean about integration? Camera app can be set to upload smaller versions of images taken straight to skydrive automatically and integration with office tools is seamless imo. In addition there is also an app in the marketplace for better control.

ossipena 2012-02-03 06:56
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ioncelmare (Post 1159729)
after android got a lot of updates
yeah, SGS has broken every record with updates, crappy symbians had only couple updates per device ;)

don_falcone 2012-02-03 07:37
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibrakalifa (Post 1159810)
WP is suck!! linux is for the future!!!
More unsubstantial stuff. Bang goes the killfile.

ArnimS 2012-02-03 07:56
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamGan (Post 1158677)
WP doesn't allow manufacturers to put their own UI layer like Android. Each WP phone works and feels the same as any other. In terms of hardware Nokia is pretty much constrained by the OS - eg, no NFC support, no micro-SD support, no multicore support, max internal storage is 16GB, no divx/xvid video support, etc.

But the greatest impediment to WP is the name Windows Phone itself. Nobody wants Windows on their phones as it is associated with a bloated, buggy, malware infested OS and a monopolistic Microsoft. Of course they are different but the name and automatic association rankles.

MS will lead Nokia to an early grave, no doubt about that.
That^ needs to be read by everybody again.

ibrakalifa 2012-02-03 08:16
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by don_falcone (Post 1159820)
More unsubstantial stuff. Bang goes the killfile.
android->linux based
maemo->pure one


lol WP?, go to hell:D

Helmuth 2012-02-03 08:17
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
At least here in germany more and more shops are selling the Nokia N9. Only very few for a high price, but at least this fact is a success in a country where is absolutly no advertising made for the N9 but a bunch of expensive for the Lumia 800.

They are selling those devices not without a reason. They are selling it because there is a demand for the best mobile Nokia has ever made. Not everyone wants a iPhone clone. But many wants a option to Android!

umo120 2012-02-03 08:18
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1159776)
Until the UI/UX and other bits outside of the kernel has threading and is implemented on a real multiple-core piece of hardware, that's speculation based on the kernel. At the kernel level, iOS supports threaded and multiple cores - took until now for it to do so.
I don't think it all have to be multithreaded to take advantage of multicore, just concurrently running processes should do enough good, especially in Harmattan with true multitasking. After all it's standard linux (including X11), so unless they did something horrible wrong, there should not be any problem to run it on multicore processors without large changes.

The Wizard of Huz 2012-02-03 09:06
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ossipena (Post 1159804)
So you think there will be zero improvements to WP7 in the future? No new content to whatever their appstore is called?
When did I say that? The improvements in the first (last) year in WP7 were much less then after one year of iOS

Quote:
Originally Posted by ossipena (Post 1159804)
No matter how much iOS has improved, it cannot match (yet) with microsofts cloud systems.
That is just your opinion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ossipena (Post 1159804)
When looking to the past now, it is obivous that there were signs in couple of months that correlate very strongly to the success. This is just a strong indicator for the fact that you are the one who needs to study more economics.
No the signs were already there after the launch. It is you who did not see the signs. Your the one here who needs to study more economics.
Even after more than a year WP7 is nowhere.
You were still wrong with your "2 years". May be you should learn how to read a graph.

Edit: You sound like a Microsoft evangelist (troll), plugging msft products.

zwer 2012-02-03 09:24
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmuth (Post 1159836)
At least here in germany more and more shops are selling the Nokia N9. Only very few for a high price, but at least this fact is a success in a country where is absolutly no advertising made for the N9 but a bunch of expensive for the Lumia 800.
Ummm, notebooksbilliger.de had the lowest prices on the N9 since its release, often even outmatching gigantti.fi. Germans/Austrians could have it cheap for months...

ossipena 2012-02-03 09:42
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wizard of Huz (Post 1159852)
When did I say that? The improvements in the first (last) year in WP7 were much less then after one year of iOS
you just didn't mention it thus suggesting that windows won't improve from current situation


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wizard of Huz (Post 1159852)
That is just your opinion.
yes it is. onenote makes my life really easy just like access to xbox live on the go.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wizard of Huz (Post 1159852)
No the signs were already there after the launch. It is you who did not see the signs. Your the one here who needs to study more economics.
Even after more than a year WP7 is nowhere.
You were still wrong with your "2 years". May be you should learn how to read a graph.
Are you serious? I had signs for right numbers to every lottery of the world to week 4. Shame that the correct numbers can't help anyone now. (please stop, you'll embarass yourself without even knowing it. this is standard market hindsightness just like "I should have bought nokia stock when they made rubber boots and sold them when N95 was released").


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wizard of Huz (Post 1159852)
Edit: You sound like a Microsoft evangelist (troll), plugging msft products.
fyi: I have N950 and lumia 800, I prefer N950 but there are many things implied million times better in WP7..

abubakar 2012-02-03 10:21
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1159776)

So... Harmattan supports multiple cores, has great Skype integration plus video calls, full NFC (swp inclusive) implementation?

....
Until the UI/UX and other bits outside of the kernel has threading and is implemented on a real multiple-core piece of hardware, that's speculation based on the kernel. At the kernel level, iOS supports threaded and multiple cores - took until now for it to do so.
...
I think I dont agree much here. Its cruel to even begin to compare harmattan-meego with wp in multitasking. At kernel-level i'm sure all of them do some multitasking, true thats not the discussion.

On the app-level, even in the most basic multithreading, if you are running on a multicore processor the threads are automatically going to get divided by the processor to run on seperate cores, you dont have to do anything to tell the processor how to share the load. And you even have those apis which you can use if you want to specify which core a particular thread should execute on, but I think from a phone's perspective that will be a rarely used scenerio. As I understand (never programmed for ios), ios actually has stuff programmed in it to stop stuff from running at the same time to give a smooth user experience. They have special APIs that the programmer can use to tell the OS "hey i'm doing some special stuff in this method and please keep it running (even if at low priority) when this app goes background". Android must have such stuff in it too (not sure), specially coded to give a smooth user experience, but way better then ios i'm sure. (Although, seperate discussion, my friends were showing me their multicore android devices, was some lg phone dual core 1ghz, they had custom roms loaded, and the 3d desktop lagged a lot. Again, seperate discussion.)

Now when you talk about meego-harmattan however, as I understand (I have never used N9) there is nothing preventing one application to execute its code regardless of what any other app maybe doing. You dont have to code harmattan UI/UX to support multithreading for, say, notes/some-irc-app/gpodder/leafpad/some-console-app/multiple-web-pages/calendar/conversations-im-sending-recieving-messages etc etc to be able to work all at the same time.

For all I know, even today in 2012, harmattan-meego is the best platform to utilize multicores. Period.

Dave999 2012-02-03 10:58
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
I think microsoft(ballmer and Elop) and nokia planed the windows mess back in 2008 and Elop planted Ossipena as a mole back then. This plot goes deeper and deeper...

ossipena 2012-02-03 11:21
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Norris (Post 1159896)
I think microsoft(ballmer and Elop) and nokia planed the windows mess back in 2008 and Elop planted Ossipena as a mole back then. This plot goes deeper and deeper...
oh man, I am now totally busted!

SamGan 2012-02-03 13:05
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterc (Post 1159378)
well well well...
isn't that being overly dramatic, now?
this sounds like posts from (disillusioned) m$ fanboys, now trying to unload their frustration on NOKIA...
NOKIA still is the number ONE (dumb) cell phone maker
it certainly isn't as profitable as Vertu, but it still sells...
Nokia lost US$1.4 billion in 2011. Symbian sales are falling in double digits every quarter. The crazed Elop won't sell N9 in all markets. Sales of dumb phones are dropping as users switch to smartphones and their profit margin is thin anyway. So you expect Lumia to charge in and carry the day?

Let's get some perspective. Europe is WP7's best market. Despite huge promotion and incentives and banning N9 from competing with WP7 it only sold a dismal million units if Elop is to be believed. N8 with a sunset Symbian os sold 4 million in its first quarter. Lumia will have a harder time outside Europe as the rest of the world doesn't care about WP7. Overall WP7 has a global share of less than 1%.

Slapping a Nokia label on a WP7 phone isn't going to make any difference. There is no hardware, software or price breakthrough in the Lumia. Why should users start loving WP7 just because of the Nokia name? As a brand name Nokia is not even cool or trendy. It is like what Volvo is to cars - dependable but boring.

I expect Lumia sales to be depressed outside Europe including the U.S. Maybe Nokia can sell a few million a quarter overall. In 2 quarters Nokia will be on its knees looking for a white knight to save it.

Helmuth 2012-02-03 13:55
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zwer (Post 1159854)
Ummm, notebooksbilliger.de had the lowest prices on the N9 since its release, often even outmatching gigantti.fi. Germans/Austrians could have it cheap for months...
Yes, but in my opinion it is a big difference if you can order it online if you exactly know what you want or if it is aviable at a normal big electronic market in the city, visible and aviable for undecided people who want to test a device themselfes before buying.

gazza_d 2012-02-03 13:55
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Looks like our "friend" is chucking serious amounts of petrol on the Symbian bonfire. An article just published on The Register reports that Nokia are accelerating the Symbian rundown.

Question I have is whether this is cos symbian aint selling, or that the Lumias arent selling and the few people buying Nokia hardware are buying Symbian, so by killing it off it reduces choice for those punters and the hope is that they will buy lumias instead.

gerbick 2012-02-03 14:27
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by abubakar (Post 1159883)
For all I know, even today in 2012, harmattan-meego is the best platform to utilize multicores. Period.
Until Nokia pairs Harmattan with anything multi-core, you're simply speculating. Sure, it has Linux underneath, et al. But the fact that it's not on a multi-core hardware doesn't support much more than just idle chatter and wishing.

Technical details aside of what's underlying Harmattan, I'm saying until it does exist, we're just hoping.

And yes - for the record - I know that WP7 doesn't support multi-cores in its current iteration fully. And it's definitely evident via

don_falcone 2012-02-03 14:28
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
...of course sales are falling ALSO because you idi*t announced that Symbian will vanish. Anyone in for creating a voodoo doll for the community?

gerbick 2012-02-03 14:41
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by don_falcone (Post 1159964)
...of course sales are falling ALSO because you idi*t announced that Symbian will vanish. Anyone in for creating a voodoo doll for the community?
That announcement never made sense to me unless you were trying to scuttle your own company. And that seems to be the case even more so each and every day.

patlak 2012-02-03 15:15
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by don_falcone (Post 1159964)
...of course sales are falling ALSO because you idi*t announced that Symbian will vanish. Anyone in for creating a voodoo doll for the community?
Anyone on TMO from Africa?

patlak 2012-02-03 15:26
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gazza_d (Post 1159953)
Looks like our "friend" is chucking serious amounts of petrol on the Symbian bonfire. An article just published on The Register reports that Nokia are accelerating the Symbian rundown.

Question I have is whether this is cos symbian aint selling, or that the Lumias arent selling and the few people buying Nokia hardware are buying Symbian, so by killing it off it reduces choice for those punters and the hope is that they will buy lumias instead.
If this happens to be true, the world is in for a great surpr......expected happening, a buyout. Elop is either using his last few drops of pesticide poision at clearing anything Nokia or he is clearly stupid by continuous selling/rejecting of profitable segments and counting on an OS...sorry....ecosystem that is only represented by 1% on the market in tandem with its predecessor.

Funny thing is, such idiots are rich and on top of us. Pathetic.

Helmuth 2012-02-03 15:26
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gazza_d (Post 1159953)
Looks like our "friend" is chucking serious amounts of petrol on the Symbian bonfire. An article just published on The Register reports that Nokia are accelerating the Symbian rundown.
So Nokia is finally taking his retirement on the growing SmartPhone Market if favour of FeaturePhones. :(

So sad. They had the best devices for a long time and the Hardware quality is still great.

patlak 2012-02-03 15:38
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmuth (Post 1159975)
So Nokia is finally taking his retirement on the growing SmartPhone Market if favour of FeaturePhones. :(

So sad. They had the best devices for a long time and the Hardware quality is still great.
Instead of churning out more and more Belle and Harmattan devices, he is focusing only on ecosystem, ecosystem, ecosystem, WP. How can an ecosystem be sustainable when nobody wants to live in it?

Cue 2012-02-03 15:55
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by quipper8 (Post 1158432)
Actual text of Elop Call bold is mine for the parts pertaining to blaming salesmen. Judge for yourself.
Quote:
Elop:
Contrarily, in German and Spain, we have seen steady weak-on-weak improvement in Lumia device activations up to the holiday season followed by a small expected dip during the last week of the year and then continued weak-on-weak growth in January. We are in the very early days in the United States with T-Mobile, and we are very encouraged with the early pickup that we have seen retail outlets.
Not sure if typo or factual :)

misterc 2012-02-03 17:07
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamGan (Post 1159936)
Nokia lost US$1.4 billion in 2011. Symbian sales are falling in double digits every quarter. The crazed Elop won't sell N9 in all markets. Sales of dumb phones are dropping as users switch to smartphones and their profit margin is thin anyway. So you expect Lumia to charge in and carry the day?

Let's get some perspective. Europe is WP7's best market. Despite huge promotion and incentives and banning N9 from competing with WP7 it only sold a dismal million units if Elop is to be believed. N8 with a sunset Symbian os sold 4 million in its first quarter. Lumia will have a harder time outside Europe as the rest of the world doesn't care about WP7. Overall WP7 has a global share of less than 1%.

Slapping a Nokia label on a WP7 phone isn't going to make any difference. There is no hardware, software or price breakthrough in the Lumia. Why should users start loving WP7 just because of the Nokia name? As a brand name Nokia is not even cool or trendy. It is like what Volvo is to cars - dependable but boring.

I expect Lumia sales to be depressed outside Europe including the U.S. Maybe Nokia can sell a few million a quarter overall. In 2 quarters Nokia will be on its knees looking for a white knight to save it.
you are preaching to a converted :o
i started calling m@ke$$h!t LostDOS... m@ke$$h!t LostDOS twenty years ago (started working with OS/2 back then; was a co-development between m$ & IBM for version 1.x before m$ went NoTech but still, it clearly showed how crappy windoooooz always was; and will be...)
putting their crap on a mobile phone is even more ridiculous then trying to use it as a server OS :mad:
or for anything else, for that matter :rolleyes:

but hey, it's a free world, right?

to hedge off the idiotic remarks about OS/2...
the last OS/2 servers used @ IBM as LAN & print server had a track record of uninterrupted availability extending into hundreds of days whereas... a weekly reboot is required by m@ke$$h!t for their crap 'cuz of their lousy (patch) dev skills
i started playing around with GNU/Linux a couple years later until i finally switched to openSUSE ½ a dozen years ago (v!$t0, anyone?)
still kept a crappy copy of LD, 1st to update the N95 & now my navigation system :(
for all i care ma@k$$h!t can go to hell
let's hope NOKIA comes to its mind & kicks the m0r0n out before it's too late :mad:

patlak 2012-02-03 17:09
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
lolwut

Elop, I finally agree. WP is a succes!

don_falcone 2012-02-03 17:28
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
OMFG wpcentral. Almost the same idi*ts as webosnation...

gerbick 2012-02-03 17:34
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by don_falcone (Post 1160014)
OMFG wpcentral. Almost the same idi*ts as webosnation...
This... triggers my inner-troll.

Pointing to other camps as idiots is easy. Let's rise above that folks.

Okay, I agree. I remember their sad coverage of a get together in Japan. Showed the same 8 folks in 5 pics. And it was deemed a "success"...

don_falcone 2012-02-03 17:47
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
There's no way; they reside on the lower layers but act a bit like hive-minded brutes.

Zoxir 2012-02-03 17:54
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by patlak (Post 1160010)
lolwut

Elop, I finally agree. WP is a succes!
Funny that happened in Finland :D. Maybe Elop asked all Nokia employees to buy a Lumia or get kicked :D

gosh 2012-02-03 19:24
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1159963)
Until Nokia pairs Harmattan with anything multi-core, you're simply speculating. Sure, it has Linux underneath, et al. But the fact that it's not on a multi-core hardware doesn't support much more than just idle chatter and wishing.
Description of "QThread" for Meego - http://developer.meego.com/api/1.2/qt4/qthread.html

I think that Nokia is holding back phones with better hardware running meego because that would compete with WP phones. Flop and Ollila is giving away customers to iOS and Android.

If they wanted they could do a 720p, 1.5 GHz dual core with meego and selling it for same price as iPhone

gerbick 2012-02-03 19:47
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gosh (Post 1160070)
Description of "QThread" for Meego - http://developer.meego.com/api/1.2/qt4/qthread.html

I think that Nokia is holding back phones with better hardware running meego because that would compete with WP phones. Flop and Ollila is giving away customers to iOS and Android.

If they wanted they could do a 720p, 1.5 GHz dual core with meego and selling it for same price as iPhone
Sigh

is it on multi-core hardware right now? is it on a dual core 1.5ghz processor? right now?

without the above, it's speculation. period. people judiciously overlook that one statement I'm making right now. And before anybody has a stereotypical reaction - it means that it's not something that exist, in a purchase-able condition right now. that is all.

thank you for the link, btw. that does do more to educate me in the area(s) of Qt.

just the facts ma'am

gosh 2012-02-03 20:15
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1160085)
Sigh

is it on multi-core hardware right now? is it on a dual core 1.5ghz processor? right now?

without the above, it's speculation. period. people judiciously overlook that one statement I'm making right now. And before anybody has a stereotypical reaction - it means that it's not something that exist, in a purchase-able condition right now. that is all.
It doesn't work like that when operating system supports threading done by the cpu. You could put an eight core cpu and it will work. Its just cpu instructions and the operating system don't care how it is handled by the cpu.

Totally different when operating system don't support native threading.

gerbick 2012-02-03 20:57
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gosh (Post 1160096)
You could put an eight core cpu and it will work.
Is it optimized?

Is it on the store shelves right now?

Yes/no answers only please.

Cue 2012-02-03 21:40
Re: Nokia CEO Blames Salesmen For Windows Phone Struggles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1160125)
Is it optimized?

Is it on the store shelves right now?

Yes/no answers only please.
Yes to the first one. This isn't a yes or no answer but I think the point is that it's very much possible if it were allowed to be since Meego like Android is POSIX compliant and already supports pthreads.


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