Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?
 

AA batteries with RasPI!
You'd need a suitcase full of em :p

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?
 

If you want very high longevity on battery, for a device that is not used for high performances graphics, but as an SSH terminal or local editor (but not for kernel compilation on device...), there are dedicated low power CPU like the SAMA5 from Atmel (now Microchip).

Mainline linux support is quite good (Free Electrons is in charge of it), Qt is available, and consumption is below 150mW at full speed (which is only 500/600MHz...) and can be lower a lot in idle to 300uW (from website: http://www.atmel.com/products/microc...ARM/sama5.aspx)

It can't compete with a raspberry pi 3, and even less with a Galaxy S8, performances wise, but for a "linux hand-held" machine, it would allow 26h of operating at full speed on a single standard alkaline AA battery (1.5V, 2600mAh), and months of idle time. Don't forget to take into account screen/wifi/auxiliary consumption however, as they would be the one consuming the most...

Freescale's imx6/7 range could be another way to do it with a more powerful chip (some have several cores, and GPU, but are still quite low power).

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?
 

Nice to know. But this is a very limited experience. Not one that covers 1/10th of what I require.

Good but too limited.

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?
 

Please don't forget that there are not 2 persons with the same needs in this thread, so the "best handheld" question will never been answered :D

(Expecting now another 10 pages "linux community is doomed because nobody can agree on what is needed" in 3, 2, 1.... sorry for that ;))

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?
 

GOD PEOPLE!!!!!
Are you blind?
Can't you see????
The Linux community is Doooooomeedddd!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?
 

Actually Zeta ...
you are completely correct in your argument...
"Please don't forget that there are not 2 persons with the same needs in this thread, so the "best handheld" question will never been answered .."

and of course everyone knows what that means...

equilibrium must be maintained..
closure must be attained...

soooo...
I will have to kill you all here in Talk Maemo ..
to conclude this recurring....
perpetually looping..
"hyperspace bypass conundrum" thread.

(BTW ....the Vogons were completely in the right...)

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?
 

No, I haven't forgotten that. I think what needs to be noted is that I was gracious enough to say "not for me" basically.

For instance. The people in this forum want smaller phones. Great for them. I have big hands, ever-worsening eyesight and above all, I actually use the phone for more than a terminal. I don't say much more than "not for me" and vote with my money.

In fact, I even said "nice to know". Somebody says something counter to some other geek and it gets pointed out.

In the end, you'll buy what you like. I'll buy what I like. The rest is just conversation. That's the good thing about this forum... we all share our opinions here.

Opinions are often like *******s. They may stink but we all have one.

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?
 

You totally missed your chance to yell out "THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE"...

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?
 

Well, I betcha you could get a pretty strong consensus on this thread about what was the best linux handheld in 2009. Sometimes the choice is clear.

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?
 

https://youtu.be/NMkhRK2lV0E

This one has a touchscreen, with a stylus too.

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?
 

But that exactly is the problem!

Imagine the unlikely case that a potential manufacturer visits this thread to gauge interest for "the best Handheld gnu/linux machine". What impression will (s)he get? A barrage of "not for me" answers. So, naturally, (s)he will turn away thinking there is no point even trying.

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?
 

Just another reason ...
So help in the CMC starting up! (Community Massacre Committee)
We need some real "go getters" to achieve a common ground for potential investors for the couple of people left here in the community when it is all over...

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?
 

The Plan (in December)
is to asking for poll nominations
for a poll beginning New Years Day.

The poll will ask what was the best
-delivered and used during 2017-
Handheld gnu/linux device during 2017.

The plan is to start asking for nominations
before the holiday season, of course.

Note:
this does not plan to "Answer an unanswerable Question",
it is just to shed light on what
the various of 'us' here at TMO perceive

Cheers - now back to your regular programming.

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?
 

Interestingly, this has occoured to me too.
There are some Cortex-A5 chips out there (eg. NXP Vybrid, but SAMA5 is such a chip too) which look hacker-friendly enough to actually design a custom board (or use a compute module developed by somebody) and maybe it's even possible to create some sort of a device with it.

Would be a cool electronics project. (The Vybrid even has a QFP package IIRC, so it could even be hand-soldered.)

However, sadly I came to the conclusion that the resulting device would not be too interesting because of the very low performance of the Cortex-A5 comparted to anything you can find in a smartphone or tablet these days.

Exactly.

UX: neither the Vybrid nor the SAMA5 has serious graphics acceleration. Which means you won't have a smooth GUI either, so you won't have groundbreaking UX either. (The Vybrid has OpenVG which nobody cares about, but even if they did, it wouldn't be on par with a proper GPU.)

Maybe such a piece of hardware would be suitable for something like an e-book reader and some light terminal usage, but I'm not even sure if it could render websites with acceptable speed.

Maybe yes, maybe no. Using an low-performance chip does not alone warrant that the device will have a low power consumption. Neither the Vybrid nor the SAMA5 is meant for this use case. Oh, and implementing power management is a bitch. And the SoC is not the only thing on board which consumes power...

Yes, using a "proper" SoC (imx, omap, whatever) would more likely result in an interesting device. However looking at how the Neo900 guys struggle with it, I'd say this is not viable for a one-man or small-team electronics project.

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?
 

If you just want ssh, GNU utilities, gcc, Python, numpy, etc but don't care about (usable) linux graphics, just get an Android phone and install GNUROOT Debian and/or termux. That's what I've done (although I still carry my N900!) and it works pretty well. I can even compile things with gcc and openmp on my Android phone, and use all the cores. You can still purchase good, new Android phones with hardware keyboards. Obviously the battery life is fine. If I could just get a decent X11 server (I've tried a bunch, and as far as I can tell all Android X11 servers are unusably bad), I'd be pretty happy with my Google Pixel XL - with the battery case I have, I can go six days without recharging.

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?
 

For example?

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?
 

What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?

This year 2017 You can "buy" this:
https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/

;)

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?
 

a short list of your suggested android alts.Ken ... is a great idea ...
(although for myself...I have just about had my fill of android...and am waiting for the zerophone to hit market now...and will be making my own pi-beast this winter....below is my list of bits I am going to buy and put together....)

- pi 3 model b (of course)

- a 9 layer transparent case (perhaps add a layer or two if needed...)
with a 3.5 resistive for the top
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/172855095066?...84.m1436.l2649

- a fan (needed for what is going inside)

and for the guts ...

- a mobile power board
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/232340038249?...MakeTrack=true
(my expectation for usage of battery is purely for calls when not plugged in....)

- a 4 band gsm board
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/112537391335?...84.m1436.l2649
(I may consider the newer 900 instead of the 800)

- and the audio injector sound card
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/182655173758?...84.m1436.l2649



i was originally favouring and considering the wolfram ...a stellar product..
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/231408301175?...84.m1436.l2649
but after enough research ...
Their board is definitely out as an option. ...
pitiful pitiful..
its lack of support is astounding...
their forum is full of people asking " what happened?"
with the current pi's ...nothing but probs... ..or rather the lack of proper support for their product
(which I find amazing ...sell a product and DON'T support it???? Really????)
it's like wolfram made this wonderful product...than then afterward decided to completely forget about it and ignore it...
..to use a Trumpism ".....sad...."
So yeah...
Not interested in a luxury car with square wheels ...as the saying goes...

and I briefly considered audio injector's octo
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/172755847976?...84.m1436.l2649
but decided that was overkill and would make portability a possible issue....

I just need a decent audio card to continue puttering with real time processing ...so I can continue using gtkgep and other such fab progs. with a decent portable system and my harps..


There is my intention....
an all in oner that should do the trick

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?
 

Would the Ockel Sirius be a contender here ?

I just read about it on AnandTech.
It's obviously on Wincrap 10 and the production is still ongoing (scheduled for november on IndieGoGo, even though we all know how those crowdfunding schedules go), but from the FAQ:

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?
 

well you pretty much answered your own question the moment "However ..." started.

I am not about to begin "hoping" for linux support ...
on top of hoping for driver support ..."which may or may not exist"..
on top of hoping and trying to count on a windows device that is still in the limbo of crowd - funding and may or may not perform as described...look as described ....or even make it to final production ...sales and shipping ...as described.

I have a tendency to wait until a long time after device release ....
now...
to see if everything actually measures up.
If it does...I am happily impressed ...curious about the device... and supportive..and willing to invest....time effort and money...in purchases...

Start-up crowd-funding is still quite new...as modern methods go...
I think it is great...and all..
many good things have come from it...
...
But I also see... that the old "soon" ...( mantra) ...
has quite quickly past "hope" and become an expectation..a given..

Personally I don't gamble on "possibles" any more.
Established devices with track record, good support and community are better than a gamble ..they are an investment.

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?
 

I'm afraid I'm in the same boat. None of the devices I have "pre-ordered" have ever ended up in my hands. Here's the sad truth: a group of friends cannot raise some money and make a decent cell phone on their own. The way forward, in my opinion, is to get a full GNU/linux userland running atop Android. Think of Android as a fancy BIOS.

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?
 

full GNU/linux userland running atop Android...

"if" it ever happens...
"if" it ever becomes truly viable...
"if" it doesn't end up being a "one-off" due to Android liking to change things ...making any possible working model ...useless...(more likely a scenario)

then sure... I would definitely consider an Android phone ...purely for the ability to subvert it...and use linux.

but as you have mentioned x11 being a presiding issue...
I doubt it will materialize..
perhaps in the future ...something will come about.

the 4 biggies are that
Android uses a hard modified version of the Linux Kernel
Android uses BIONIC as it's Standard C Library instead of GlibC
Android doesn't include the GNU coreutils
android-eabi is different from the gnu-eabi

conquering these issues is very unlikely..
wiggling around these issues (more likely) would have to happen.

currently ..just having a bare bones terminal to tinker in...on an android phone..
isn't enough for me to even consider it as a daily use alternative.

A single device that is both linux comp and phone is ultimately what I desire..
I can tolerate for the time being needing an android phone purely for calls and telegram and translate..
(shortly when she arrives ..haven't seen her in a year now...and she is due to arrive on the 3rd of October.. I will be edifying my girl on the use of irc ...and it's inherent translating abilities...then will be introducing her to a N.I.T. ...and that then negates for a time...staves off the need... to use a damn android phone...)
and use my N.I.T.'s for proper usage...

2 devices isn't my preference...
especially one of them being android.
that will shortly be temporarily remedied...concerning android.
then it will be using my n900's until the zerophone is out.

For me ...
If it must be 2 devices I carry ..
supported and current is the only option for the investment of time effort and money...
Switching to the pi phone and migrating to a franken-pi for my mobile work, puttering and fun is a better alternative for me...
than now ...just tolerable..aging ...n900 and lugging about a laptop for convenient browsing..
or the intolerable android and a laptop...

eventually (and not too far off... I would imagine) I will only need 1 pi device for my needs ...the headway the pi has made over the years is impressive...and I expect it to only improve..

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?
 

That's basically what libhybris does!

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?
 

Slightly offtopic: Does anyone here have contact to the guys from 51nb?

Im looking for a ips mod kit for a Thinkpad t420, to have a handheld-ish device with a non crappy screen...

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?
 

I realize that "f*ck google" is one of the tags for this thread, but I'm going to risk having my head bitten off, and being drummed out of this community. I am going to claim that the best handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017 and the foreseeable future is an Android phone running Termux. Termux allows you to run gnu/linux applications, on an unrooted Android phone, compiled for 64 bit arm. Termux is open source, with an active community. I can run Python 3.6, iPython, sympy, numpy, scipy and astropy. I run it on recent hardware (a Pixel XL), and when that machine is obsolete, it'll be trivial to get newer hardware. If I cared about Google's collection of my data (which I don't), I could just create a throw-away gmail account for it under a phony (no pun intended!) name, and leave it in airplane mode all the time. If I cared about a hardware keyboard, I could run it on a Blackberry phone, or some other Android phone with a keyboard. What currently available handheld gnu/linux machine is better than this?

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?
 

Agreed.

termux is good.
definitely a step in the right direction.
I would like a bit more than terminal though..
even a primitive gui would be nice.
that is the only thing stopping me from using termux all the time.

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?
 

I completely agree about the gui. But maybe folks like us should join the group maintaining Termux, and try to put together a gui for it.

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?
 

good idea.
personally I don't know where to start with android ...
I use a POS for basics...
but frankly have avoided at all cost doing any development or study of anything past linux or maemo....
so I am not sure what exact needed droid knowledge would be necessary...

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?
 

Is TMO dead?

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?
 

No, not dead, yet....

But in it's twilight years, most certainly. It's Darwinian. Sadly.

HA

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?
 

I wouldn't call it the best gnu/Linux machine.. More the best gnu/Linux emulator app for Android phone.

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?
 

@ nx500

the fact you are posting here is ample proof enough tmo is not dead.
If tmo were dead...you would get no response when trying to even navigate to the site.
tmo having fewer members than in the beginning ...is a given.
tmo catering to unique devices and hence unique individuals makes it niche enough to mean it will have few individuals present.
But since tmo caters to not just one or two devices or platforms...but many...and continues to grow thus....adding new devices and platforms to its ranks...I doubt it will die ..at least not in the foreseeable future.

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?
 

I disagree. It's running gnu apps on a real Linux kernel. It produces an glibc API for application code. The only unusual thing from a gnu/Linux point of view is the hybris and bionic layers, but that can all be thought of as a very bizarre glibc implementation. The only really nonstandard thing I can see is that /proc is not visible, so utilities that pull information out of there don't work (at least under Android Oreo - I think /proc was accessible in earlier versions of Android).

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?
 

Indeed! Also issues with drivers. Not much of a machine if you can't control it. Any significant advantage of termux over gnu root debian or linux on android. Both work as a linux terminal. Also both can make a desk top environment. Just askin'

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?
 

I like Termux... since you seem to use it quite a lot, i wonder if you know how to enable bash autocompletion?

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?
 

Hi. Happen to notice that bash auto completion works fine on Gnuroot Debian (my phone is not rooted). Also have access to files on internal storage of phone. Is there a way to have access to files in internal storage using Termux? Or is it a self contained linux environment?

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?
 

Sadly, Android version 8 (Oreo) broke gnuroot Debian (see https://github.com/corbinlc/GNURootDebian/issues/206). It looks like the issue may be "seccomp filtering" which was added in Oreo. This problem was noticed immediately upon the initial release of Oreo, a couple of months ago, and it has not been fixed yet. I get the feeling that gnuroot Debian has fewer people working on it than Termux does.

I've used both, and gnuroot Debian seemed to give a more "fully gnu/linux" feeling than Termux does. It felt like a regular changeroot environment. gnuroot Debian has an integrated X11 server, which Termux does not.

However, gnuroot Debian is a 32 bit Arm environment, and Termux is 64 bit. Even if you disabled wakelock and wifilock on gnuroot Debian, it still occasionally drained significant battery power even when you weren't running any code with it. Termux doesn't do that. Also, Termux supports setting up scripts that are run whenever the handset is booted, and also can be integrated with Tasker.

Termux only supports passwordless ssh logins to the handset; there is no concept of a user account, so you have to copy your public ssh keys onto the handset if you want to allow logins via sshd, and since there's no password then, it's a bit less secure than logging in using sshd under gnuroot Debian.

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?
 

Thanks for the background information. I hope a work around for the seccomp filtering issue is possible. Seems like the minute you get a little comfortable with things someone pulls the rug from underneath you...

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?
 

Currently by the end of 2017, there are a few Linux/win machines which are pretty nice and compact.
and
"which really exist"

1 GPD Win
https://i.imgur.com/e8SOJqt.jpg
64 GB internal
4GB Ram
full qwerty + gaming keys which acts as mouse
1 usb 3.0
1 full hdmi
1 micro sd
full windows 10
Ubuntu working

2 Gole1
https://liliputing-wpengine.netdna-s...04-680x453.jpg
64 GB internal
4GB Ram
1 usb 3.0
2 usb 2.0
1 full hdmi
1 micro sd
full windows 10
Ubuntu working

3 Linux Deploy / Bochs / Limbo for Android
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/v6eC-CH8UG4/hqdefault.jpg
depends on your device configuration

4 Nano Pi2 UMPC (a DIY project and my favorite)
Attachment 39689
https://cdn.thingiverse.com/renders/...w_featured.jpg
from
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2514014
i feel we should support this guy its a really nice DIY project.

there are a few more like
Pyra
Gemini PDA(which is really pretty ergonomic if really produced)
Pandora
but they are still in kick-starter


i am considering to get GPD win, as it is really easy to handle with joystick so no mouse or touchscreen needed for input(although it has a capacitive touchscreen), and Linux ready..

Re: What's the best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017?
 

HI - immi.shk

this was an outstanding post and can be built upon.

In just a few more days we need to begin a poll thread
for
What was best Handheld gnu/linux machine for 2017


The format you used for your post is an excellent start