Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Nobody says there is no xenophobia in America. Just less of it. Yes, Nokia pissed on itself prior to Elop.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I have, and there is no way i would buy one. The 2 biggest things i use -mass storage mode and Bluetooth transfer, don't exist, for that reason alone i would never buy one

Lumiaman, you do know that the lumias have the highest return rate of any phone in Nokia's history. Why would this be the case if it's so good?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Mass storage and bluetooth transfer are your concerns? I am laughing hard

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

It's not going to happen. Have you seen any running preview of WP8? The OS is a long way from being completed and Microsoft is famous for bullshitting improbable dates.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Nokia cash depleted by €1 billion in Q2 to €4.1 billion in Q2. If this is the burn rate when they shipped 4 million Lumia and mitigated the loss with sales of Vertu it will be much worse in Q3 when sales of Lumia dries up. Microsoft will pay its final instalment of $250 million in Q3. Don't forget retrenchment payments to retrenched staff which will hit in Q3.

I expect Nokia's cash to deplete by €2 billion in Q3 and another €2 billion in Q4 if WP8 phones aren't released in Q4. So Nokia will be insolvent by end 2012 if WP8 phones are delayed until 2013 which seems very likely as I expect MS to delay WP8 until Dec. 2012.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Just FUD. Nokia employees have been using WP8 for months already. PureView Lumia was shown half a year ago.

But tell me, and be honest. Why are you all so damned negative? I am visiting several boards, Android, Symbian, WP, iOS etc. Sure there are cry babies and fanatical fanboys there as well, but they are a minority. Here, 99% have their hatred painted thick on their skins. Some group orgy hate fest? Yes, Nokia pulled the plug on the N9, get over it. Jolla is coming to rescue, and besides IMO a Galaxy Nexus or Nexus S does a much better job, if hacking and openness is what you are after. Hell, even the new Ashas are more hackable than the N9.

The painful truth is that the N9 team didn't do a good job. The N9 was not good enough for the general public, it was DOA everywhere it was introduces, nobody wanted it. It's DOA as a hackable toy, you cannot even flash the thing properly. I'm sure if Steve Jobs would have to grade the N9 team, he would have given it F on both "user device" and "hacker device".

October it is, and in November they are hitting the shelves.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

He clearly misspoke, then:
http://fortunebrainstormtech.files.w...-ceo-quote.jpg

And during Elop's reign as well. Everyone else is also pissing all over Nokia, including Microsoft themselves. It really couldn't be helped, though. They made it so easy when they decided to stop trying to catch up to everyone else by competing on innovations, customer service and business savvy and instead put all their faith in Microsoft to save them.
http://www.talkandroid.com/wp-conten...pee.png?3995d3


Tactful avoidance to a question can sometimes speak volumes. This was one of those moments.

Could it be two words: past performance? So far, you're still in the incredible minority despite your assurances that you're not and despite your so-far-empty assurances that you have accurate facts to back your claims. Your claims haven't been bearing out, even by Nokia's latest reports.

But let's look at a pretty good statement here:

"Nokia's own CEO says that for several weeks already towards the end of Q2, Nokia's own Lumia sales had stopped growing. That was 'Peak Lumia'. On a Quarterly basis, the 4 million was it. There won't be more growth now. Now we are seeing the decline. Now the last lies are exposed, AT&T did not sell two million, rather closer to one tenth of that amount haha. And now that Microsoft has kindly Osborned all Lumia units, we will see a dramatic decline. Some carriers have already resorted to literally one penny deals, others have stopped total Lumia sales like T-Mobile Germany (the biggest carrier/operator in Europe's biggest country and very big Nokia client). And the smart ones, like Verizon (biggest carrier in USA) or China Mobile (biggest carrier in the biggest country on the planet and biggest smartphone market, China) laugh as they refused to take any Lumia and never got into this quagmire of upset customers."

How can you NOT want to see a company like Nokia fail if they treat their products, their customers and their own employees the way they did? At least the good news is that there are that many fewer people to be effected by their failure who have moved on to other jobs or careers with a better future (even flipping burgers seems to have a far more positive outcome lately).

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I am so negative because I look at the failing numbers and don't paint a fantasy picture of how it has just, today, turned around for real this time.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Have you ever used lumia 900 or 800

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

fwiw, I have just seen a local ad (from a huge national chain) asking for $0.0 on a 3yr contract for the Lumia 900 plus giving away a $100 gift card. regardless of brand, $0 for a smartphone is a nice deal - even more so, if the phone is a recent released one. however, it does not speak well on how popular(or the demand) for this phone is. as a comparison, the same ad ask for $99(w/ 3 yr contract) for the samsung note.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I have. What's your point?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Here is what Elop said: "in the weeks following the announcement of Windows Phone 8 Lumia sales have been flat or up"

He did not say: "for several weeks already towards the end of Q2, Nokia's own Lumia sales had stopped growing". This is a typical Tomi distortion of the truth. Emphasising the negative only to continue with his token Elop is wrong rant.

I have given you references (it will not happen again). Stop acting like a child. Christ!

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Use the product before criticizing it. Its way better in terms of general functionality than whatever Nokia had so far

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

3 year contract!!! Three years!!! What bozo would do that, regardless of phone? Here I can get the SGS3 , iPhone 4s, Lumia 900 Whatever I want for $0.2 (20 cents) on 1 (one) year contract.

Suckers!!!

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Windows Phone 8? What are you quoting? Something from the future?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

The announcement of WP8 in June by MS and Nokia.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I gotta disagree. And you know I have a Lumia 900.

It fits a certain type of user. Tinkerers, hackers, power users need not apply. My mother though, she's loving it. I liked it, but the moment I needed a more competent phone, I had to start back looking for a phone that offered me (free) tethering (a hack on the N9 gives me that, as it did on my Android phones) for my Nexus 7 tablet.

So saying it's the best user experience, you're not taking into consideration the collected group of folks here. Wrong audience for those kind of comments. Wrong audience for WP7.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

@specc

I've reported you three times now; I hope something will finally stick. I've suspected since your first few posts that you are that permanently banned a*shole ericsson. But even if you're not, it's time for you to go.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Link me. I think that's what I'm saying and you're not getting.

Regardless. Nokia is at the mercy of Microsoft at this moment. Microsoft announced the WP8 upgrade path (read: none) and the Lumia sales dipped, dropped, and now the price is cut in half (at least in the US) on contract and they're losing even more money.

And you people that find this a "good thing" possess a vantage point that I'd never consider healthy for Nokia. They can't give away the Lumia 900 right now. Even non-savvy users know about the lack of upgrades.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

This is a NOKIA stock thread. Products are selling to masses, of which tinkerers, hackers and power users are a 1% or less. Given the topic of the thread, my comments stand. Your mother is the 99 percent. Your mother loves Lumia. N9 or symbian would be painful for her. That is what it is about in this thread. Period!

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Reporting for what? The guy is expressing his opinions in a very collegial fashion. Nobody has to agree on everyone's position.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

The irony that WP7 is sitting at 2% yet users like my mother are the 99% means there is a disconnect somewhere.

And that disconnect is what gives Nokia such a low stock price and such low sales.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Symbian shares are much less than that. So NOKIA is doing something right in the US. They have only started selling Lumias in spring, and already have more share in the smarphone market than symbian ever did.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

USB MS is also one of my requirements. Having to use a custom piece of software just to transfer files is pathetic.

I also want USB OTG.

Bluetooth file transfer is important too. I'd imagine NOKIA's customers in countries with unpleasant, unelected regimes would find this particularly important.

In fact I want full bluetooth connectivity to any device.

I must be able to specify which access point the phone is going to use when I connect to the internet.

My phone must be able to recieve a text whilst I'm composing one without wiping out what I've typed so far.

I also like Python on my smartphones.

Navigation shouldn't require a data connection either.

I want an SD card slot.

I want a file manager.

I want to be able to sideload my own applications on my own device without needing third-party approval.

I want HDMI out.

In 2010 NOKIA could deliver all that, sadly they've gone backwards in every way since then. Back then I would have expected by now we'd have excellent new MeeGo devices with super hardware and even more power and functionality, I would be moving on from Symbian with barely a backward glance.

It's sad to see such degradation and decay that NOKIA are now turning out 'smart' phones that are arguably less functional than their feature phones.

The design of the Lumia's hardware is so handsome and so stylish and they've been very widely marketed, NOKIA devices also have a good reputation for their durability and longevity so the Lumias should be selling really well but they're not. You need to stop and ask yourself why, what's the problem?


What would be the point? I could say 'smooth' like you do (ad nauseam) but the fact is they're functionally such limited devices that I, like the overwhelming majority of smartphone customers it seems, wouldn't be interested in buying one.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

You represent the less than 1% users, and you are, as a user, irrelevant to NOKIA stock. Why arent they selling better: the answer is simple, competition is much tougher. I have never used android, but in my use of iphone, and seeing how many people love the closed apple system, it is the system to beat, if you are looking at the stock prices. Lumia devices just began selling in US (spring), and have gathered some recognition and share. This is good as Symbian was impotent in the US. For NOKIA to succeed they did the right thing in ditching Symbian and Meego. WP will be a long term success, from the smoothness and basic functionalities that 99% want

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Symbian share in the US - a minor market compared to Europe, India, Asia and even Africa - is not a good indicator of Nokia's sales. Not even for the last 5 years.

I mean, seriously... Nokia hasn't sold 2% in Japan in ages - probably hyperbole, but close enough since Nokia has a minor presence there and does no advertising there.

Anyway, it's high time to eschew your egocentric ways and see that the US market was never going to be enough to "save" Nokia. And referring back to Symbian, a minor player in the North American market isn't helping your point. It's enforcing that Nokia didn't invest in those areas because they didn't want to engage with the monopolistic carriers and still without doing so, held the mobile crown for 14 years.

Simply stated, the US market is too small and too controlled by AT&T and Verizon to be something worth anybody's time that plays by their rules. Sorta why it was cool to see Apple play by their own rules and get away with it, and how Samsung didn't fall to the prior SGS whims of the US carriers and create multiple versions of the same phone.

Instead the SGS3 is basically one version for all US carriers. They've gotten that much traction in this area.

Anyway, stop using the US market. Look at the world market. Symbian's been on the decline since 2007 basically.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

83% of statistics are made up on the spot.

If you had used Android you'd know Symbian can compete. Extra functionality adds extra complexity, this is something both Android and Symbian have to deal with that iOS doesn't.

Android outsells iPhone now. Android on Samsung alone outsells iPhone now.
For NOKIA trying to be Apple is suicide. Forget Apple, Samsung and Android is the real competition.

So NOKIA have sacrificed bigger markets like China and Europe in order to gain a handful of sales in North America? How is that 'succeeding' or 'doing the right thing'?

Clearly the Lumias don't have what the '99%' want, they only seem to have what the 2% want.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Dude. My figures say 83.7%... must be a bad conversion from inches to liters or something metric like that.

This. It never made sense to me.

I was in Lenox Square in Atlanta just yesterday. Walked past the Apple store, it was packed full of people. Walked past the Microsoft store, they had folks at the door asking if we'd like to come in and the store was pretty silent and empty.

Not even Microsoft users seem to want the WP7 based phones.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

NTT DoCoMo did offer their own range of Symbian phones though, until Elop... well you know.

Now of course they've changed to Android.


I really don't know what it is that Apple have at the moment, I think it's something intangible. When you see those queues of people camping overnight outside the Apple stores when a new product is released and then whooping and cheering when the staff appear in the morning and strut up and down the line waving their arms in the air, it's absolutely bizarre.

It's really quite interesting to watch, it must be some weird kind of hysteria.

I certainly don't think it's something NOKIA could recreate. I think Samsung's success is built on something much more concrete and reproducable.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

apple has what nokia had 7 years ago and something new will have 7 years from now. Simple always something new and cooler ahead. Sit tight.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

The US market is very important. Its the most competitive market and there is no room for error and crappy phones. Nokia shunned the US because it was complacent to sell inferior phones elsewhere . World has become a global community and you people everywhere demand the best product. Nokia cant sell suboptimal devices anymore. If they gather significant share in the US , they will do elsewhere too. That is why the US market is so important .

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

We have a lot of symbian apologists here.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Nothing outsells iphone. IPhone is a single phone while Android powers many. I was amazed to see so many iPhones in Europe. In germany they dot even think Nokia exists anymore.

the spelling mistakes are due to inferior N9 auto correction .

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

They have a cult following that's based on their durability. But beyond that, Nokia went from one of the best built devices to the cheap devices that you get for free subsidies and flip phones in the North American market.

Quite sad.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

For Christ sake Gerbick. You have been around for some time, and you know just as well as I that even the best does not necessarily equal success just like that. If it would, we would not all be using MS Windows on our PCs. We would not have a "PC" we would have a Amiga running Amiga OS ver 3x.x.

Luckily it's a different time now with space for much more variety on our mobile devices.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I have already linked it, look it up yourself. Nobody is saying it's a good thing WP7.x devices cannot be upgraded to WP8. But it's not the utter disaster some of you want it to be. It's not going to kill Nokia and WP8.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Careful now Lumiaman ;) Pre 2007/2008 Symbian on a Nokia was "the thing". Even a Nokia without Symbian was "the thing". But no matter how good Nokia+Symbian was, it was never a mass marked product, and was not marketed as a mass market product, at least not before 2007. After 2007 it became a mass market product, but it wasn't a good enough mass market product, it had no chance against Android and iPhone. As an enthusiast toy though, Symbian devices still are top of the line with the 808.

Neither the iPhone nor WP are enthusiast devices. My Lumia 800 is the best everyday phone I have had, but anything more than that and it fails, falls through completely. Atm I can live with that, and I hope (and believe) WP8 becomes something more. The N9 also falls through IMO as a enthusiast device, it's too limited HW vise and the OS is also too restricted. It has nothing of the sheer, brute "Old school Nokia smartphone" like for instance the N8 or in particular the 808. The N900 was much better in that respect than the N9. The N9 doesn't make it as an enthusiast device or as a mass market device. It had potential as a mass market device though, but grandmothers and multitasking phones are two incompatible devices, lots of geek stuff would have to be thrown away for that to happen.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Thus a dilemma in your reasoning. If you think WP7 is the best, it will not exactly be a success. How does that help Nokia exactly?

Let's take a look at their stock prices......

Amiga is the one you run behind? Meh. BeOS was better since it had 64-bit journaling and better media.

Meh. Mediocrity still reigns supreme.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I didn't say WP7 was the best. What I said was even the best is no guaranty for success. At the time I rated Amiga better than the PC. BeOS was also good, but it was only an OS, and it never really made it to mainstream.

Look. I believe Nokia will make it because WP8 will make it. WP8 will make it because huge forces are behind it, pushing it from more than one direction, and because the UI is easy and forgiveable to use, ie grandma proof. Now, if WP8 also include some more functionality, both HW and software, more of what I'm used to with Symbian/Maemo/Android, then there is no objective reason to not accept it as a good state of the art OS. Not for anyone. The only reasons for not liking it will be of the philosophical and/or emotional kind.

But, as with the Amiga, you never now. I would be very surprised though if 1. WP8 does not gain a decent market share. 2 Nokia does not again become a profitable company.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

you have missed the point. at least for where i live, big national chains all offer 'deal' like that - ie. you pay some $$ up front and then tie to some 2 or 3 yr contract. it may sound a rip off to you, but these are the options the average joe/jane can have. the point i am making is this: for these national chains to offer the Lumia 900 with such terms within such a short time after official release of Lumia 900, it really means that this phone is not selling well at all - bad news for Nokia.

Here are other reference points(all with 3yr contract term) for you - SGS3 ( $129), SGS2 ( $0), iphone 4 ($99, 32GB, this is not 4s), the iphone 4s($160 for 16GB; $270 for 32GB), blackberry bold ($75). As a re-cap, nokia Lumia 900 ( $0, plus $100 gift card). These asking prices reflect the highest $$$ that the average public are willing to pay. it does not look good for Lumia 900, specifically, at about 1 month ago, they were asking for $50 or so.