Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Fair enough. But that is not a free market. A three year contract is way too long. Only the phones with a track record can hope to compete on such terms. Or more correct, the phone with a track record (top Galaxy, iPhones etc) will have huge advantages. Even a one year contract is dubious regarding the principles of free competition.

Nevertheless, the Lumia 900 seems to be DOA also here. The Lumia 800 and 610 are selling well though. They are cheaper off contract and are also offered with cheaper contracts.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

It will take more than a few more functionality to make WP8 competitive with Android and ios. Right now it is still playing catch-up unless MS has something spectacular in store which it hasn't announced yet.

A very blanket statement with no supporting basis. It's hard to discuss logically with someone who is so emotionally attached to his pre-conceived notions that nothing else can penetrate.

I would be very surprised if it can gain more than single digit market share in its first year and it won't be enough to keep Nokia alive.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

What if nokia actually release an highend wp8 phone with camera like 808. Wouldn't that itself be a success?

however i will personally not buy it.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Nope. It wouldn't.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Why not? I mean alot of people want a decent camera in theyr pocket that can replace normal cameras? And right now there only is one and thats 808 but problem with 808 is nokia doesnt marketing it and people wait for wp version of it?

Or does samsung have gooxd camera mobiles similar to 808?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

The UI/UX is already way beyond with it's integrations and general use and feel.


Nonsense. If you are going to comment, then comment what I am writing, not something else.


WP8 is not what keep Nokia alive, it only keep Nokia smartphones alive. S40 and S30 is what keeps Nokia alive. WP8 phones are necessary to compete with iOS and Android though, and the ecosystem.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

LOL :D THIS statement I will present to you 6-12 months from now :D

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Actually, a lot of people won't care as long as the pictures are "good enough". The N8 and 808 didn't sell well even though they had the best cameras. It's a niche and a very small one at that, much like an FM transmitter/receiver. Those who care about photography will not throw away their lenses and DSLR, those who don't are happy with their current phone camera. It is a selling point but I doubt it's as influential as you think, especially if it adds bulk to the phone.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

What are you talking about. The N8 is still selling well, two years after launch. It sold about 4M a quarter for at least a year, much less now though, but it's a classic and still on the shelves.

The 808 haven't really reached the shelves yet. But this phone IS Osborned. Everyone but the die hards (camera/Symbian) are waiting on a Lumia PureView.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

If it were selling well then why the need to change strategy? What is wrong with you people, one day you are saying they were struggling to sell phones the next they were hot sellers. It clearly wasn't selling enough in their eyes for them to have pushed for a strategy change. The N8 was their flagship high-end mass marketed device and was available long before the Elop announcement so that particular phone wasn't Osborned, and when it was much later on what was the reason for doing so if they believed it sold well?
The decline in handset sales were there and it still is today. It may be a "classic" among the Nokia fans but that's all it is, much like the N900.

Sticking a good camera on a WP (which is no more desirable and doing no better than the symbians of past or present) and expecting it to sell on that fact alone is in my opinion being far too optimistic. The same misplaced optimism that was shown after the announcement, sticking WP on a Nokia and expecting sales to skyrocket or even increase.

Expecting a Lumia Pureview to turn things around has little research behind it and is very much an individual wanting a particular thing and that individual expecting the mass market to react in kind. Cost cutting is a different matter.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

The N8 has sold more than the SGS2, in total. But what lifted it was the camera, not the OS. It has been written pages up and down about what was wrong with Symbian and Nokias strategy. I have no other suggestion to you than to read something else than US blogs and tech news. Even Tomi with his direnged view is better.

I git no saying in Nokias strategy, I got no saying in Nokias priorities. All that really matters to me is the WP8 pureview is something I'm looking forward to. It will suit me just fine. There is no other phone in the horizon that inspires, not even close.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Stop. Feeding. It.

You make it look like the delusional arguments are valid arguments in a two sided discussion. Ridiculous.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Slow down buddy, got a source for such a bold claim?

The N8 sold less than the HTC Desire and more than the SI only for a short period near launch, definitely not the far more popular SII that released shortly after. This is from Inderes Oy, a Finnish research firm.

http://www.slashgear.com/inderes-est...n-q4-30122003/

The N8 shipped 4 million at launch worldwide over a period of 2-3 months, These are the only estimates I've seen published. The SII shifted 5 Million over the same period and this is even excluding the US market.

http://www.t3.com/news/samsung-galax...dset-milestone

by that alone it would appear the SII was a far more popular handset.

And what exactly is wrong with reading US blogs too? Even if you are implying that they are somehow subjective towards Nokia/Symbian they certainly would not make up sales figures so it matters not.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Sorry, will happen no more. Didn't see your post before posting mine.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Briefly. I already didn't want it just based on its technical demerits. Using one only confirmed for me that this isn't a product I wanted. I'm not sure how my using it (or not) will make any difference in how Nokia has treated their products, their customers and their employees. It also doesn't improve their return rate for defective products. It also doesn't help investors nor will it make their product any better in any way.

So why did you even bother asking if I've ever used a Lumia 900 or 800, if you yourself haven't even used an Android device?

...And a couple of Elop/Microsoft apologists.

I hear you.. I agree.. but seriously, they're proving how dead Maemo, MeeGo and Nokia in general really are by simply making THIS topic part of the busiest thread on the site. I mean, really.. is there anywhere else to go when Nokia's led us into a dead end? There isn't much else to develop or look forward to. Right?

We're on a sinking ship. While most people have already jumped ship and forgotten about TMO, there's some folks sticking around.. some playing their music, others watching horrifically, and a couple of them are denying that the ship is sinking but that it's instead improving its chances of floating by sinking faster.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

OK, I'll stop feeding it now. Case closed.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

^__^


good.

No stock quotes today, must be sunday or something.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

I should had shut up about nokia cameraphone now specc and lumia trolls may THINK I am on theyr side. LOL

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Who cares what you want. The company wants to make what the common denominator desires. They clearly desire a closed system. When Nokia alwas wealthy they tossed few hack able phones your way. They have no money to toss free bones, and they clearly need a software partner. Maybe Jolla will prove me wrong, and I would like them to prove me wrong, but if this is the same team that brought on the market imperfect Maemo 5 and Harmattan, I don't hold much hope.
The OS needs to be as smooth as ios or WP. None of the nokia devices had it. There is no room for imperfection in today's markets as the bar has been set high. Nokia hardware is great but software inferior, hence WP. Sales will depend on the common man and woman and not on the extremes from the mean. lumia just started selling since the beginning of the year. We will know in 18 months where they stand.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Well put Lumiaman. :)

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

This post seems to stem from your own inate sense of cultural superiority rather than any logic.


I don't see any need to apologise for Symbian, whilst Symbian was NOKIA's primary platform they towered over the opposition. Maybe not in the US but most everywhere else on the globe. Now even tech sites like ZDNet and betanews are questioning whether NOKIA should back pedal.

For me it was obvious from day 1 WP7 wasn't ready to compete in advanced markets like Asia and Europe and it's hardware requirements would also make devices too expensive for other strong NOKIA markets like India and Africa.


It used to be 'Android has many manufacturers' until Samsung overtook Apple, now it's 'Android powers many models'. Now in some markets, like here in the UK, just one of Samsung's many Android phones, the Galaxy S3, now outsells the iPhone on its own.


Symbian's installed base is still around 300 million, Android has only recently overtaken that and iOS is still miles behind.

Symbian competed very well with Android and iOS, as it proved coming out on top quarter after after quarter right up until it was deprecated. Sure NOKIA had market share erosion but there was no evidence to suggest an imminent nose-dive and crash.

Furthermore Samsung, HTC, LG, Motorola, Sony and others do make some extremely nice hardware, even NOKIA's market share erosion was not necessarily directly attributable to Android v Symbian.

Devices like the 5230 and 5800 were solid and good value rather than exciting. We had to wait quite a while for the N8 to pitch up and even that had rather modest hardware (camera excepted) compared to other devices hitting the market at the time.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Android is not as 'smooth' as iOS (or WP7?) yet it continues to massively outsell both. Maybe power, functionality and freedom are more important than you appreciate.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

The sad part is that Symbian was NOT competing. It was simply being displaced by overwhelmingly superior forces. Pre-Elop nokians simply slashed prices to give it a little more life. It was a matter of time before Symbian, dead as soon as iPhone was produced and Android copycats, and unable in 5 years to even come close to android and iOS , was going to perish. I was a big Nokia supporter but even before iPhone showed up it was clear that their software writing skills were suboptimal. So don't delude yourself that Symbian was competing. It was not.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

In Q4 2010 NOKIA's smartphone sales were up 36% year on year and the gross margin for smart devices was 29%. Also GM and ASP both went up in Q4 2010 as a result of the arrival of the N8.

In Q2 2012 NOKIA's smartphone sales are down 39% year on year and the gross margin is down to 23%.

It's not uncommon to see reductions in gross margins going hand in hand with increased sales, when customers place larger orders they expect keener prices (remember NOKIA's customers are carriers and retailers not Joe Public).

Decreasing margins combined with rapidly decreasing sales is a much more ominous sign.



The hundreds of millions of people who continued to buy Symbian phones long after iPhone and Android hit the market prove you wrong. Symbian absolutely, categorically was competing. Sorry if you don't like it but it's patently, obviously true.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

You are stuck in the past. Just like Nokia leadership, just like Brits many of whom wistfully reminisce of their empire, just like some Germans still think that stupid blunders cost them the Eastern Front. Wake up bud. It's a new day and it's without Symbian.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

switch-hitter has sales numbers to back up his claims.

For FIVE years, 2007-2011, everybody (read: engadget) was messing how Symbian was dead while symbian sales in actual items sold were UP the whole period. They were up until the very quarter when Elop stated that it was time to evacuate.

Each and all argument against what switch-hitter backs up his claim with is NOT BASED ON REALITY.

I don't even like Symbian, but it was Nokias milk cow and it was shot in the head by Steven Elop. It's that simple.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

EXCEPT Android is not more free than microsofts garbage:

take a look a this and stop beleive google is better its all the same evil as microshit is:

http://lwn.net/Articles/504865/

i really hope jolla get a chance in this area...

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Android may not be fully open but lets not go too far and suggest that it faces the same restrictions as WP. WP cannot even sideload apps and any homebrew is locked as a result meaning you have to pay $99 a year to develop your own apps on it, even for personal use.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

yet
and
Time for the Maemo troll to make up it's minds. :rolleyes:

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

wait, what? you do know you are quoting different people, right? What has what I said got to do with what others say?

Not everybody created multiple maemo accounts you know, which is more than I can say for you.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Different "people", same troll. I mean please, read through this thread. I could have "reported" every single one of you for personal attack on me and Lumiaman in almost every single post. The funny thing is that danramos is spot on in his assessment of this crowd, and all that follows from that.

Anyway, Helsinki already down 3%. Not that it means anything.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

It seems to me I've given verifiable facts and figures and in return got baseless assertions and racial stereotypes.

But hey, if you play the victim knock yourself out.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

In the mean time, stocks down 3.5%

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Oh the irony.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

This crowd danramos, not Nokia ;) Irony nevertheless :)

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Yeah...

Nok1V started at 1.41 euro today, compared to 1.52 friday.
Dropped to 1.36, currently 1.39.

Lowest yet was 1.33 last week.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

There is some news.

Nokia is considering a change in strategy.

No, not the way you might have been hoping. They are considering dumping the traditional strategy of selling to as many as possible in as many as possible places in Europe. Instead they want to implement the US strategy that's been so "successful" for them in the US. Pick a few operators and have exclusive partnerships. This is surely an result of moving the "successful" US market director up to global market director. Not at all suited here where we have loads of operators per country.

Should shake the stock down even a few more cents.

Source: http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/0...86M00520120723

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

Yes, not working with exclusivity. Who will buy a phone that is locked to a operator. That is insane. FREEDOM!!

By the way. Samsung eating the rest(Apple,nokia,Sony,htc...) ALIVE!

http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/tech...02300320F.HTML

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

This might mean their next phone is going to be priced very high. They are trying to copy Apples initial strategy. Take your guesses at the price: £600? $700? Maybe they are doing the complete oppisite and wish to take another huge loss for mind/market share.
It will be in the extremes in any case.

Wonder what this bit means though:
Carriers getting app revenue, or something else entirely?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock!
 

They are considering same kind of revenue sharing model as what Apple does with iPhone, which is pretty freaking amazing. They actually think that they still have enough brand recognition, hype and loyalty to pull that one off. From stupid to delusional.


That would be good for the camera-geek niche. Its not a huge market, but large enough for decent revenue. Would help a bit, but I don't think that excellent camera really is a market transforming killer feature that would somehow give WP7/8/WhatEverNumber mass market appeal.