maemo.org - Talk - Jolla User Experience Thread

before the end of the year there will be another larger patch, which will fill gaps and bugs in the phone's problem areas. During this first quarter of 2014 they plans to focus on new, still missing functions in Sailfish.

Quote:

Jolla has promised new updates on a monthly basis. This is also helped by Sailfish's technical architecture. "It's very modular. If you will upgrade Bluetooth, it'll only be in it. If you compare it to the Nokia N9, there was a giant block. If you changed small things, you had to change the whole stack. The consumer will become furious pretty quickly if they were asked to download a 400-megabyte package once a week."

Quote:

Also, users' opinions carry weight with the way Jolla progresses. "I can promise you that the feedback will be reflected in the product and in the software." ... "Key features come first," says Pienimäki. "For our purposes it is balancing how different things are prioritized.

tissot

2013-12-18 16:12

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Any Finn here know what this tweet by Jukka is all about?

Quote:

@yle_areena kiitos Jolla-sovelluksesta!

https://twitter.com/jukkaeklund/stat...31248220995584

maluka

2013-12-18 16:18

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by tissot (Post 1398260)

Any Finn here know what this tweet by Jukka is all about?

https://twitter.com/jukkaeklund/stat...31248220995584

Not a Finn but I'll answer ;) He's thanking YLE for submitting their TV app to the Jolla store.

tissot

2013-12-18 16:19

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by maluka (Post 1398264)

Not a Finn but I'll answer ;) He's thanking YLE for submitting their TV app to the Jolla store.

:D
But it seems like we are not talking about native sailfish app here?

EDIT: Answered on the tweet. Not native app.

Leinad

2013-12-18 16:26

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamGan (Post 1398146)

No smartphone is launched fully featured but I don't think any phone has launched with so many bugs.

Remembering the iPhone Without Apps, MMS, and Copy Paste

+ no GPS, no 3G, ...

JulmaHerra

2013-12-18 16:32

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by pycage (Post 1398235)

So it can only become better. Right now it's on par with the N9, I'd say. Disabling 3G in areas with weak reception helps a bit, too.

I'd say its still superior to N9, at least on some use cases. Power consumption seems to bee quite constant regardless of what I'm doing with it. Last couple of days my Jolla has been online (3G and WiFi at the evenings), Skype online for day and some phone calls and some Internet surfing. With similar usage N9 would have run out of power before 19.00. So, even very unoptimized Jolla seems to beat N9 on that regard.

Also, reception seems to be better on Jolla, I talked with my friend while driving back home today, usually N9 (and every other phone I have used also) would drop a call at least once on that route. Jolla didn't have any problems on the same route. So, I'd say we have pretty solid smartphone, although there is much work to do with it.

Oblomow

2013-12-18 16:46

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by maluka (Post 1398258)

Not quite about that but an interview that just came out today about updates and bugs. http://mobiili.fi/2013/12/18/jolla-p...-on-valintoja/

In that interview they mention also that the facebook notifications are not integrated not for technical reasons, but for legal ones, something along "Large firms [..] have a large army of lawyers and sometimes it shows" in google translate. And that this may apply to several services. I hope the UI is open enough that it is fixable by third parties, even if I personally could not care less about facebook...

strongm

2013-12-18 16:53

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leinad (Post 1398268)

Remembering the iPhone Without Apps, MMS, and Copy Paste

+ no GPS, no 3G, ...

Given that many would (sadly) argue that the iPhone defined what a smartphone was and what it did, it is only hindsight that tells us these features were 'missing'.

What you can't do is come late to the party missing functionality and features that have become an accepted part of the smartphone repertoire (e.g. Microsoft missing copy and paste in Windows Phone) and hope everyone will be forgiving about that lack.

tissot

2013-12-18 17:08

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by strongm (Post 1398275)

At the same time the thing is that WP, Harmattan, iOS, Android all have come out missing obvious features. Even with WP7 being pretty much iOS4 all the way till WP8, it has been able to emerge as the winner out of "others".

But your point indeed stands and is hard to argue against. Why should you settle for less? Jolla certainly isn't capable of the waiting game Microsoft has been able to do with WP.

att	2013-12-18 17:17

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by strongm (Post 1398275)

What you can't do is come late to the party missing functionality and features that have become an accepted part of the smartphone repertoire (e.g. Microsoft missing copy and paste in Windows Phone) and hope everyone will be forgiving about that lack.

IMHO, this is exactly what Apple also did. Additionally Apple provided new features that were not common to other smartphones and that created part of the coolness despite the missing and lacking features.

att	2013-12-18 17:27

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by tissot (Post 1398284)

But your point indeed stands and is hard to argue against. Why should you settle for less? Jolla certainly isn't capable of the waiting game Microsoft has been able to do with WP.

And that means you cannot bring any new products to markets in most segments. Many products are nowadays so complex that it takes a lot of time to design, engineer and produce them.

In many areas of IT it is normal that there are new products that don't have features of the old products. Despite of this some of them will succeed and some of them will fail. For example you would think that LDAP, external authentication, Fibre Channel, SSL, IPSec, IPv6 and many other things are old and well supported in products but still that is not case, and still those products sell.

gaelic

2013-12-18 17:33

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by att (Post 1398295)

Still, why should we settle for less? I'm not interested in THOSE products and all the comparison with iPhone, etc. That was 10 years ago and nobody is interested in that anymore.

Oblomow

2013-12-18 17:36

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by tissot (Post 1398284)

But your point indeed stands and is hard to argue against. Why should you settle for less? Jolla certainly isn't capable of the waiting game Microsoft has been able to do with WP.

But it's not only about the features that are missing, it's also about those that are unique. You will maybe never get a third-party browser, community repositories or a root shell on iOS because apple does not allow you to install it (without jailbreak). For some people the ability to do this things may outweigh the missing elements - every person has different needs, and what's core functionality for person A is never used by person B. I think jolla may never be able to play catch up with the big players but perhaps it's possible to survive in their niche for a small company if there's enough people that value the unique features over the missing ones.

Compared to WP, I personally do not see such strong points in favour of WP, other than that it has a very fluent interface, the 1020's camera and some nice handsets from Nokia. But again, this may be the other way round for anybody else.

Rauha

2013-12-18 17:52

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by tissot (Post 1398265)

:D
But it seems like we are not talking about native sailfish app here?

EDIT: Answered on the tweet. Not native app.

Not only is not native, but its not even tweaked Android version to function on Jolla. Just like the version on Play Store, it doesn't work on streaming TV channels and live streams. Only works with the archived programs. Other options give sound and messed up picture.

I was already not liking non-native apps on Jolla Store, but allowing Android apps that don't even work properly on Sailfish in the store is really stupid and short sighted move from Jolla. Now they have not just the crappy Yandex store in there, but even their own store has stuff that does not work right.

att	2013-12-18 17:56

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaelic (Post 1398297)

Still, why should we settle for less? I'm not interested in THOSE products and all the comparison with iPhone, etc. That was 10 years ago and nobody is interested in that anymore.

Because of some other features that are new or better implemented, better quality, better service or simply due price.

And for me Jolla provides enough features for start and there are promise that many missing features will come. I hope that Jolla can fulfil that promise :)

billranton

2013-12-18 18:40

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by pycage (Post 1398242)

IMHO, users don't (know how to) use bug trackers.

I strongly agree with this, even in this community. I was over the moon when the harmattan bug tracker was opened, but I was almost glad they closed it after some frankly appalling behaviour from people on crusades for features they thought were more important than everyone else's.

I don't want to see that sort of thing with Jolla, so I'd rather we stuck to mailing lists and this forum. That's already more than you'd get anywhere else.

gaelic

2013-12-18 18:46

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by att (Post 1398309)

I still don't get it why features that already are supported by underlying libraries and programs are not supported. Sorry, but there is no excuse for that.
I don't wan't to close my eyes to these obvious problems despite the enthusiasm I have for Jolla.

latency

2013-12-18 18:52

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

My Jolla finally arrived! I love the multitasking possibilities it offers and I have no problems getting accustomed to the different swipe techniques. When this magic device leaves the Beta zone it will be more than awesome.

A question for Sailfish whatsapp users. I can't find whatsapp on either the Yandex store or Amazon store? There's no native app ready for Sailfish yet and I really need it to keep in contact with a lot of people.

gaelic

2013-12-18 18:56

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by latency (Post 1398337)

You can download the apk from the whatsapp Homepage and install through going to system-settings -> transfers;
Still: the app can't get hold of the numbers in the addressbook and you will be able only to answer people which send you a message first.
And as others already said: the app is ugly, looking forward to a native one :) (this for example is not a crucial feature I need, just a nice to have)

andreas1

2013-12-18 18:58

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by latency (Post 1398337)

many ways but 1mobile store seems to be a good one.

andreas1

2013-12-18 18:59

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaelic (Post 1398339)

address book working fine.

gaelic

2013-12-18 19:04

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by andreas1 (Post 1398343)

address book working fine.

I go to contacts in the app -> 'Unsupported action'

Do you have any android address book installed?

latency

2013-12-18 19:05

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by andreas1 (Post 1398343)

address book working fine.

Push too? Anything not working in whatsapp for you?

andreas1

2013-12-18 19:09

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaelic (Post 1398345)

I go to contacts in the app -> 'Unsupported action'

Do you have any android address book installed?

Nope, but this is also covered in some other topic. I did nothing special, nevertheless they appeared, sorry no memory.

Quote:

Originally Posted by latency (Post 1398346)

Push too? Anything not working in whatsapp for you?

Videos are not working for example. If you keep the android window open, you get notifications, not integrated to led-functionality though.

att	2013-12-18 19:21

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaelic (Post 1398336)

It is because UI isn't ready for all the features. UI is one of the thoughest areas in software. And it is about quality. You need to prioritize and concentrate on doing things well to keep up quality. You only have limited resources. It all comes back to the basics of software engineering.

zlatokosi

2013-12-18 19:22

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by parasemic (Post 1398179)

Jolla employee confirmed on finnish it forums 100% of staff is sending phones. They have below 100 employees for ****s sake.. Thats why its also ridiculous to cry about missing features etc as even in current state Sailfish is a remarkable achievement.

That's just stupid if true. It's ok for a day or two, as a team-building exercise maybe... to celebrate a bit. But a serious company (and Jolla in my book have proven they're a serious company) should be able to do handling and packing using mostly outside temp work. Otherwise it's a waste of resources.

Fuzzillogic

2013-12-18 19:39

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by att (Post 1398214)

Yes, I know very well. I have used eduroam and I have been a very little piece of building it.

I still consider WPA-PEAP an edge case for "normal" people.

However, Jolla's are bought by edge-case people. I too find many features lacking. Fortunately, some of them are fixable from the terminal. Perhaps that's why I'm an edge-case. However I'd still prefer a GUI for those.

Rauha

2013-12-18 19:39

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Time for CEO version 4.0, if the current one puts the guys responsible for the OS and software platform toiling as postal workers.

Unless they are so short in cash that even few temps taking care of it would have been too high cost. Then they wo'nt need CEO anymore, just bankruptcy lawyer

att	2013-12-18 20:08

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rauha (Post 1398363)

I think some people are reading it too literally. The actual packing and shipping process is done by DHL Supply Chain (I think it can be considered confirmed). There is still plenty of things that need attention from Jolla to keep everything working in the process. And I'm reading this that in those functions Jolla's people are stretching their working times and doing work that they don't normally do.

Edit: And it might be also that DHL Supply Chain is also doing extra stretching to try to get the deliveries done before Christmas (for Finnish orderers) or before the end of the year (for the rest).

latency

2013-12-18 20:09

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by andreas1 (Post 1398349)

Nope, but this is also covered in some other topic. I did nothing special, nevertheless they appeared, sorry no memory.

Videos are not working for example. If you keep the android window open, you get notifications, not integrated to led-functionality though.

Do I have to keep it open and active in "full screen" or can I have it running and open other apps and still get notifications?

att	2013-12-18 20:31

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuzzillogic (Post 1398362)

However, Jolla's are bought by edge-case people.

That is why I put the edge word in double quotes. The problem is that Jolla's edge-case customers all have different edges they are thinking :) So we are back trying to figure out what are the most common features needed at the beginning, and unfortunately WPA EAP isn't that important than the other authentication methods.

As a side note:

I also cursed when N9 didn't originally supported WPA EAP and its variants. I couldn't use the Eduroam with it. Nowaday I don't anymore care so much about Eduroam because 3G is good enough for smartphones like Jolla for many of my use cases. And in home WLAN I don't use EAP.

With LTE coming I suspect the need for WLAN will decrease in many use cases in the future. At least in coutries that have good 3G and LTE coverage.

Fuzzillogic

2013-12-18 20:33

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by sconf (Post 1394759)

Sweet, copied files from N9 and it worked right away!

Now, anybody knows a way to add more calendars to calendar application?

Could you or Att elaborate a bit on this? On the N9, these files are in ~.sync/profiles/service and ../sync. On Jolla there is no "service", but there is a dir "server". Same thing?

And on N9, one had to add the config to the daemon by doing some DBus magic. (Incidentally, does that SMS sync work on Jolla?)

Some pointers to documentation on this would be welcome too.

szopin

2013-12-18 20:35

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Two things I noticed:

Brightness, would it be possible to allow lower brightness in the settings (phone definitely supports it as at lowest setting it will go lower if automatic adjustment is on, sadly a bit like N900 it can juggle up and down in certain conditions)
Back to last open app from lock screen, currently after swiping away lock screen you are put in multitasking view, I know a single tap away, but a toggle would be nice

jsiren

2013-12-18 21:30

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rauha (Post 1398307)

I tried playing an archived show (The IT Crowd, latest episode as of today). The program crashed a couple of times, but eventually started playing on about the third or fourth try.

parasemic

2013-12-18 21:34

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by latency (Post 1398374)

Do I have to keep it open and active in "full screen" or can I have it running and open other apps and still get notifications?

You can keep it in the background and even run other android apps on top. Also popups seem to work even throught sailfish applications.

andreas1

2013-12-18 21:36

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by latency (Post 1398374)

Do I have to keep it open and active in "full screen" or can I have it running and open other apps and still get notifications?

try :)
works full/small and you can keep other android apps foreground also.

edit.
me too slow

att	2013-12-18 21:47

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuzzillogic (Post 1398386)

I'm not an expert on buteo. Too little time for everything. Hopefully sconf can help you on the questions.

To get you to start:
http://sateeshkavuri.com/buteo-synchronization/

mikecomputing

2013-12-18 22:19

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leinad (Post 1397933)

you can use droid-FF on Jolla too :)

No I cant and will not install dalvik. If native browser has issues they should be solved. However I still say MANY sites is non mobile friendly and hard to read on phones whatever crap people try to convince with using X/Y/Z browser...

mikecomputing

2013-12-18 22:23

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bundyo (Post 1397956)

Well, who will use exFAT, if they could format their cards with FAT32...? :)

Well, who will use FAT32, if they could format their cards with btrfs/ext4? :)

mikecomputing

2013-12-18 22:25

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by att (Post 1397960)