Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Then again, Dave999's reply just above your post still makes sense.....

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Today I got an invite to buy an Oneplus 2 should I buy one? Can it run sfos2?

Or wait then I realized I better go for fairphone2 next time I buy a phone.

Infact www.fairphone.com and Jolla should merge.

Fairphone "most open" hardware
Jolla most open OS

what a combo would that be?

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Well, yes, except that there's nothing strange about it. :) Dave has been insisting that reaching 100% of a crowdfunding goal means that the crowdfunded project should have enough funds to be completed. I'm arguing that for the tablet project (and, in fact, most crowdfunded projects) this is not the case; in fact, most projects need additional funding from elsewhere in order to succeed.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Worse, most projects work at 100%, but fail when they reach 10k%, what they could produce at a desk hand-crafting works for 100-1000 pieces, when they get orders for 100 thousand they need to hire mass producing factory and it turns out that their designs are not good for mass producing (not that it is relevant to jolla tablet, but it's more complicated than just counting the % points and dollars, extra complexity of mass producing costs a lot), ask Dirk, he pulled it off in a way

edit: can't find the source I read originally, but recent KS failure Zano copters was blamed on the fact they could ship the planned 500-1000 items as they planned to manufacture them DIY in the kitchen, when they got few million dollars in backing and 15k orders they needed to change tactic and reinvent the wheel to allow mass producing in a factory or ship their drones for 5 years+, after shipping 600 drones they folded (similarities with jolla tablet totally coincidental)

edit2: Oh and to just rub it in, it was: Europe's most successful Kickstarter campaign ever

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

The saddest part is neither fairphone can save jolla (not financially, they will ship android and hoping for community to keep them updated or with alternatives, yeah, those liars who claim fairphone will provide updates are just that), nor intex, the 10 billion INR investment in new factory is 150 mil in U$, and that is for a whole factory, not just part of R&D which seemed reasonable sum during Nokia times (nokia sitting on 3-4 bil $ is also absurd, they would need to reinvest in factories etc, they will only do what Jolla tried with ordering ready-to-use with android blobs phone and putting Nokia logo on it, once they can, seeing Finnish people support for local produce, not going to go well), not when fighting against goog/appl

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Must admit I'm pretty upset. I really wanted Jolla to do well & believed in their product. No way could I ever buy iOS, Android or m$.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

I cannot see why Nokia cannot invest now in Jolla, the urgent money Jolla needs might not be that much (for Nokia I mean). Having a viable platform in long term would be good for Nokia, or other phone manufacturers.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

That's your mantra and it may well be the case but I would not be so resolute. The tablet is a reference design, not much extra development needed. A few iterations of the circuit board, perhaps. Two months' worth of salary for one hardware guy. The OS is pretty much done as well. OS 2.0, although the tablet is the usual excuse, was not made for the tablet. It was made in parallel with the tablet. In any case, the tablet could have been shipped with 1.0. The only thing missing was landscape support.

I work for a small IT company. We produce our own hardware and software. Embedded world so no touchscreens and no Linux but that only makes the development harder. We have 64KB at our disposal, not 1GB and a convenient excuse, "it's Android eating all your RAM". Plus we have other challenges stemming from our subject matter (IoT). Yet we manage with one hardware guy and 7 software guys and gals. In my world, the money from the IGG campaign would have been plenty.

Perhaps our esteemed Stskeeps could enlighten us? He seems to hang around here these days.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Nokia now is just a guy with a fat (for now) wallet, no factories, no manufacturing abilities, to get back in business they would need huge investment (or to rely on indian/chinese manufacturers), might as well just slap a Nokia logo on generic android device to see if people still remember (which they will probably quickly learn to forget with chinese quality of produce and generic android with z-launcher stickied on top), R&D costs a lot (in a way, Jolla could help them with that, but risky, when you need to open/rebuy factories of your own to bring back european quality and margins are so low), safer bet to sell tires again (or stick to network services or whatevs, CEO who got there after all those gamblers can stay for a while with no risk this way)

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

I guess small is the key word here, if you want millions of investment money, you need to aim big, if you work as small company you don't really need to play big. If what you do keeps the 8 guy company afloat, no reason to upscale. Unless you wish to get millions of $ in investment, jolla-adventures might give a clue how to get that

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

The argument was the cost of developing the tablet, scale has very little to do with it.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Scale has everything to do with it if you want investment money, or you could do Mer with community UI, go bother them they are too small and too slow for your liking

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

OTA8 means 48 weeks of work, right? +8 weeks for next release (ota9), still no copy-paste? Big company Canonical? After a year of work?

Patch: Sailfish Browser text selection patch
coderus's picture
Submitted by coderus on Fri, 08/22/2014 - 17:33

Wow, community rocks, faster than a bunch of hired coders it seems (we'll see if it works in Jan 2016 for Ubuntu)

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

There's no point in Nokia reopening factories. Not even Apple do that. Nokia aren't doing that with their tablet either. It's built by Foxconn. The problem is Nokia rightly do not see a profit in developing their own OS or quite possibly even doing phones at all.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

I know, there is no incentive sadly for them

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

My point is that Jolla messed up/ignored the fact that the had a budget much higher than what they asked for...why didnt they Mange to produce more tablets.

why didnt they ask the backers. "Hey, we have some financial issues regarding tablet production and we can't do the qa we want. We believe it's better to ship what we have rather than jeopardize the hole project"

Also wonder why the project did several screen changes when they were short to n money? The old screens didn't work at all?

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

how about the One Plus X?

It uses the Snapdragon 801 SoC which is virtually identical to the 800 in the Nexus 5.

I know there is a lot of other hardware that needs support, but surely this is a good candidate for SFOS adaptation....

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

"NOKIA!"

"We need you(r fat wallet)"

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Hope the cost cutting came early enough to secure resources to finalize tablet and serve its customers and there by save a tiny hope for the future of jolla

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Nokia is still connecting people amazingly enough, most don't see it/experience it, but the fact they moved from consumer products to network seems to work out for them. Leave the consumer space to the mega-corps, they have the budget to choke us all with ads of their super products (some claim apple won with browser experience, seriously doubt it, they won with billions in marketing, since the ipod times, you don't grow a hipster fanbase that high with just a product/experience, but then there is this: http://www.macrumors.com/2014/04/24/...wser-engineer/
Apparently Apple was just (feeling like) a startup then)

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Apple might not won the browser experiance, but they Are defenitly in the lead.

Edit text - very good
Copy and paste - very good
Switching browser tabs in landscape - very good
Video in directly in browser - very good
No Split screen for iPhone plus - very bad
Options to change stuff - very bad

I don't like the iOS but would love to have the browser experience on my androids, Windows, Jolla and Ubuntu.

Jollas OS is nicer but their browsers is beyond bad.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Dave you're a collector, pull out your iPhone 1.0 and run its browser vs any nokia N series from the time, was it really the thing? (as no point in arguing 10 years later with billionaire backing, even though android should've stood a chance even now, the original iPhone experience)

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Doesn't have first iPhone since I was into the n series and didn't have the same budget for tech as I have today. It was more one phone per year back then.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Shame, tried YT searching, but YT wasn't around at the time I guess

edit: any original iPhone 1.0 owners (lol, wrong forum) could check that?

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

All accessories except this:

http://shop.jolla.com/eu_en/cat-acce...a-origami.html

Is now out of stock. also Angry Stella out of stock.

[Speculation warning]

That was not the case some weeks ago. Either some fans has bought some Jolla stuff lately or Jolla decide to give them to employers as some payment....

[/Speculation warning]

I hope they can sell out the phones too. http://shop.jolla.com/eu_en/cat-jolla/jolla-1.html


Just wonder if I can use mapbagrag® Flip case above with combo that I already have: http://shop.jolla.com/eu_en/cat-acce...elo-white.html

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Lots of people decided to support jolla by buying what they could (how 2 year warranty is going to work out for them, I do not know, hope for the best), no need for conspiracy theories

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Jolla or actually SailfishOS would nicely fit to Nokia Technologies group as licensed product for other companies and it would be quite cheap to finance compared to some other projects but I don't believe Nokia would do that because their experience with Microsoft and Microsoft's inability to license its OS to other companies without massive financial aid.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Good point, both in it's relatively cheap costs (how much did nokia spend on symbian r&d) and it's possible advantages, would be nice if nokia's management were willing to place a bet, 50mil is nothing for them, and in a year they could come back (as in real finnish comeback, bring back national pride etc, doubt only 10k Finns wanted to support their local manufacturer, Nokia's name itself would bring a million, though sadly most likely to android cheap-phone)

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Now, that is the correct question to ask here. :) As I've said, I'm guessing they were using the campaign for advertisement, and didn't believe they would actually need the funds it generated in order to produce the tablets. But yeah, that's just my guess...

And this is another excellent question. I really don't believe Jolla was in a good position to be so picky about hardware when they were sourcing the tablet. They really ought to have stuck with the vanilla x86 design and just pushed the thing out asap, rather than try and optimize it. But yeah, more armchair-quarterbacking from me here. :) The thing is done now; if Jolla does manage to come up with some more funding, it should be easy to pump out the tablets quickly (if the factory hasn't totally given up on them).

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

There is no point arguing with someone who is always right, even if it takes changing the topic. I was talking about how much it costs to develop a tablet and you keep changing the topic to investors. If you do not see that those are different things, then there is no hope. I am out.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Oh god, imagine the whiners then (then again sheeit, you might be right, at least dave would be whining about sheitty display rather than not having the tablet, so confused right now)

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Oh please, you're the one who doesn't change topic, please tell me how many updates your daughter's android phone had. Investors are a reality, go back to the dishes

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

the future of jolla is in the software side of the company, not the hardware side.

i say this as someone eagerly awaiting my tablet.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

And WHO Will buy their sw or invest in jolla IF they can't deliver a few tablets? Its all tied together.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Actually, no it is not. They've proven that their OS is optimized enough to run on mid-tier hardware without issue. They've scaled up from ARM to x86 in under a year and thus their OS is also flexible in whichever instruction set you throw at it.

They've been community ported to the Nexus 5, Sony devices, a plethora of other devices... hell, it's been ported to Raspberry Pi and they've released an Android launcher. So no, their software division is not tied to the hardware division in the least.

There are so many other manufacturers with a legion of engineers that have yet to produce a product such as Sailfish. Free of Google, free of Apple, free of backdoors... and there's a ton of hardware folks that want to produce something different than the others.

Somebody elsewhere on this forum had stated that when they split the hardware from the software that might have been to assess and categorize losses during restructuring. That's quite astute of them if that's the case and it bolsters the case for hardware and software being separate.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Man, there is more than technical implications here. Business wise. Great devs left the buiding and so forth. But if you think its good move to save a few bucks, take the badwill from their most trusted supporters and skip the tablets, I wont stop you. In fact, I wont even argue about the subject. To me, its beyond stupid ;)

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Dave, the damage is already done. They lied to you! They could have said right away that the problem was cash flow but they kept silent for months and/or coming with one excuse after another. I am sure it was with the best intentions and they really hoped that the cash would come and they could deliver but the fact remains, they lied. They proved that you cannot trust them.

In cases like this, I truly believe that honesty is the best option. I have been a few times in a situation when I had to apologize to our customers for the delay and my experience is that honesty usually pays off the best.

And you are not even a customer. Until you receive that invitation and pay for the delivery, you are still an IGG backer. In other words, an investor. There is nothing wrong with asking investors for more money. I am sure many would do it if Jolla were honest and explained the situation.

Re: Discussion over the Design, Features, and Rollout of Jolla's new Tablet, Assuming that it isn't a Figment of our Collective Imagination
 

Third time s the charm?

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

It is not an easy situation, I guess they had hopes that investors will put more money and the situation will be improved, I might be wrong but I do not think they are not honest. Personally, I am not going to blame them, even if I do not receive the tablet.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

It's done yeah but if jolla manage to come up with the tablet I think a few more percentage of the backers would be more likely to buy stuff from jolla again, and post and talk more favorable about the company. Also in potential talks with future investors, presentations at slash/MWC...this would be an achievement rather than a disaster.

1. Is it game over?
If not…

2. What is the status of manufacturing second wave?
3. What is the status of tablet parts for all the tablets?
4. Are any activities in the jolla tablet project right now?
5. When do you estimate the tablets could start shipping?

Some other questions
6. We funded the campaign with 480%. Why didn’t you mange to deliver more tablets?
7. Why change screen several times when you were short on money and jeopardize the tablet?
8. Why didn’t you asked backers or decide to ship an unfinished product rather than ship nothing at all?