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-   -   Let's talk Nokia stock. Really. (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85965)

daperl 2013-09-05 17:31
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumiaman (Post 1372324)
Your numbers still go along with what I was saying.
Really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumiaman (Post 1372021)
Actually it was Olli-Pekka who presided over the largest drop of NOKIA stock
Quote:
The stock kept sliding pre and post Elop at approximately the same rate.
Really? Here's a 25 day moving average from their pre-Elop low point to the Burning Platform memo:

Attachment 33302

Don't worry, maybe you'll learn some math when you get to pre-school.

Lumiaman 2013-09-05 17:37
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
"Our surveys indicated positive sales rep reviews and decent sales for the Lumia 1020 at AT&T. Further, our surveys indicated positive reviews though modest sales for the entry- level Lumia 521 and high-tier Lumia 925 at T-Mobile. However, our global surveys indicate gradually improving Windows Phone 8 smartphone sales due to strong sales of the Lumia 520 and other mid/low-tier Lumia smartphones. In fact, our surveys indicated solid Lumia 520 sales not only in emerging markets such as Russia and key APAC region countries but also in developed markets such as the UK and the US. We believe the growing Lumia sales, especially in the harder-to-track mid/low-tier smartphone segments, are leading to gradual WP8 smartphone share gains."

Lumiaman 2013-09-05 17:45
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by daperl (Post 1372329)
Really?





Really? Here's a 25 day moving average from their pre-Elop low point to the Burning Platform memo:

Attachment 33302

Don't worry, maybe you'll learn some math when you get to pre-school.
Oh daddy, I clearly got the brains from my smart mom, not stupid daddy. You are cherry picking again. Nice try. Go sell your Tomi ahooole stories to your children.

daperl 2013-09-05 18:11
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumiaman (Post 1372333)
Oh daddy, I clearly got the brains from my smart mom, not stupid daddy. You are cherry picking again. Nice try. Go sell your Tomi ahooole stories to your children.
Uh oh, facts too much for ya? Wouldn't it just be easier to admit that Nokia got Microsofted? And here we all thought Finland was smarter than that, but sometimes there's nothing you can do when the mob comes knocking.

Lumiaman 2013-09-05 18:29
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by daperl (Post 1372340)
Uh oh, facts too much for ya? Wouldn't it just be easier to admit that Nokia got Microsofted? And here we all thought Finland was smarter than that, but sometimes there's nothing you can do when the mob comes knocking.
Actually NOKIA got more than their division is worth. Microsoft took over because Tomi nuts in pre-Elop NOKIA royally drove the company into the ground and couldnt change the course sooner. The same thing is happening to BB, relying too long on antiquated looks and UI......and they will get sold too.

daperl 2013-09-05 18:57
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumiaman (Post 1372350)
Actually NOKIA got more than their division is worth. Microsoft took over because Tomi nuts in pre-Elop NOKIA royally drove the company into the ground and couldnt change the course sooner. The same thing is happening to BB, relying too long on antiquated looks and UI......and they will get sold too.
Even though your delusions will never end, here's an astounding fact: In just 24 business days after the Burning Platform memo, Elop managed to take Nokia to its lowest value in over 12 years. Phenomenal. Would you like me to show you a picture? I know how numbers get you all befuddled.

Lumiaman 2013-09-05 20:17
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
You are again missing the big picture. Nokia stock was phenomenally sliding for several years before Elop. Savy investors pulled out laughing at Tomi like looneys who went around and even now talk about how great was the Ovi store. The Elop drop was necessary to adjust to final reality that Symbian is dead and unless a new platform is shown to be succeeding investors will stay away.

daperl 2013-09-05 21:09
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumiaman (Post 1372375)
You are again missing the big picture.
You mean the big picture where Elop comes in and drives Nokia to the bottom of the ocean. I'm pretty sure I didn't miss it.

Lumiaman 2013-09-05 22:28
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by daperl (Post 1372386)
You mean the big picture where Elop comes in and drives Nokia to the bottom of the ocean. I'm pretty sure I didn't miss it.
Olli-Pekka, Tomi Ahonen and the likes drove a once good company to death.

Lumiaman 2013-09-05 22:46
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
Just make sure that you havent forgotten what it looked like under Ollii-Pekka and Looney Tomihttp://s1329.photobucket.com/user/su...05518.jpg.html

Lumiaman 2013-09-05 22:50
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
http://i1329.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5f205518.jpg

Lumiaman 2013-09-05 22:53
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by daperl (Post 1372386)
You mean the big picture where Elop comes in and drives Nokia to the bottom of the ocean. I'm pretty sure I didn't miss it.
Yes, the REAL BIG picturehttp://i1329.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5f205518.jpg

gerbick 2013-09-05 23:11
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
Not trying to be funny, but it's still basically a race to the bottom. OPK funded the wrong "horse" basically and Jormilla created the societies that OPK inherited. And Elop inherited the mess that the Nokia Board of Directors and OPK created and created a whole new mess when there was no "Plan B" when all along it was really "Plan Ballmer".

Regardless, losses are losses. And many folks during those downward arrows lost money and/or jobs...

Continue on...

daperl 2013-09-05 23:50
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
1 Attachment(s)
Lines are fun!

Attachment 33304

Lumiaman 2013-09-06 00:07
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by daperl (Post 1372410)
Lines are fun!

Attachment 33304
Very fun indeeed!!!!!


http://i1329.photobucket.com/albums/...ps39518520.jpg

daperl 2013-09-06 00:19
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
1 Attachment(s)
And not to be outdone, Elop tries the triple gainer:

Attachment 33305

Lumiaman 2013-09-06 00:41
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by daperl (Post 1372412)
And not to be outdone, Elop tries the triple gainer:

Attachment 33305
Hahahahhaahha........I guess ALL of them were nose diving!

Mara 2013-09-06 01:06
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
Nobody dare to compare the NOK stock development against S&P or some other meaningful reference? This will filter out general market volatility and show how NOK has performed when compared to whole industry.

gerbick 2013-09-06 01:54
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mara (Post 1372416)
Nobody dare to compare the NOK stock development against S&P or some other meaningful reference? This will filter out general market volatility and show how NOK has performed when compared to whole industry.
Comparing growth and decline in comparison to the market, supply, demand and/or trends of entire stock exchanges... you must be mad. That kind of sense renders fanboyism null and void and makes a graph actually mean something.

Can't have that. No, not at all.

juiceme 2013-09-06 04:36
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
+1
Fun to see the fighting :D

Cue 2013-09-06 08:30
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
Hell I'll be impressed if somebody does a moving average let alone real market analysis some of those drawn lines are terrible. Lumiaman can you at the very least admit that you were wrong. Admit the windows phone strategy failed badly after 3 years of you saying "just you wait, turning around the company takes time Elop made the right choice not using taliban phones"?

danramos 2013-09-06 09:06
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by daperl (Post 1372315)
So, now my numbers exist in five different posts, or would you like me to elaborate some more? Sorry if I'm a little rusty, I stopped spoon feeding my son almost a decade ago.
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...n-clapping.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumiaman (Post 1372324)
A whopping 5%!!!! Daddy, you actually are splitting hair. Your numbers still go along with what I was saying. The stock kept sliding pre and post Elop at approximately the same rate. People had no confidence in Symbian and didn't have confidence where Elop was going. Bursts all those Tomi A lullabies how great Nokia was pre-Elop. Daddy, you need a time out.
But, no matter how you do the math, he DOES burst your own point that what Elop did would/could/did save the company from being any worse off by going Windows Phone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daperl (Post 1372340)
Uh oh, facts too much for ya? Wouldn't it just be easier to admit that Nokia got Microsofted? And here we all thought Finland was smarter than that, but sometimes there's nothing you can do when the mob comes knocking.
But... but! Specc told me it wasn't so! Remember? In that old, closed-out Nokia stock thread (which, by the way, I think was a baseless and stupid thing to do to quash open discussion and speech--glad they learned or decided better this time):
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...postcount=1872

Quote:
Originally Posted by juiceme (Post 1372431)
+1
Fun to see the fighting :D
And so MUCH of it too!! Gonna need a bigger bag o' popcorn for this thread!
http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploa...pcorn-Soda.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cue (Post 1372445)
Hell I'll be impressed if somebody does a moving average let alone real market analysis some of those drawn lines are terrible. Lumiaman can you at the very least admit that you were wrong. Admit the windows phone strategy failed badly after 3 years of you saying "just you wait, turning around the company takes time Elop made the right choice not using taliban phones"?
He doesn't have to admit what we ALL knew. Even Balmer knows it deep down somewhere.

http://l2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/t4...dows-phone.gif

Lumiaman 2013-09-06 12:32
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cue (Post 1372445)
Hell I'll be impressed if somebody does a moving average let alone real market analysis some of those drawn lines are terrible. Lumiaman can you at the very least admit that you were wrong. Admit the windows phone strategy failed badly after 3 years of you saying "just you wait, turning around the company takes time Elop made the right choice not using taliban phones"?

I think you are missing my point. My point is simple: pre-Elop NOKIA has much to do with the demise of the company, just like preNewBB has much to do with current demise of BB. Neither adapted early on. That is my whole point.

Now here everyone bangs on Elop, when in fact they should be banging on Olli-Pekka, Tomy Looney Ahonen, and all the others that preceded Elop in making horrible decisions. Elop was NOKIA board tool. Everyone in business knows this, except few Tomi lovers on this forum. He is irrelevant and was there for only few years. As a matter of fact, I feel sorry for him. He has real work cut out for him to deliver more with Lumia line under MS.

Lumiaman 2013-09-06 12:35
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danramos (Post 1372451)
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...n-clapping.gif



But, no matter how you do the math, he DOES burst your own point that what Elop did would/could/did save the company from being any worse off by going Windows Phone.



But... but! Specc told me it wasn't so! Remember? In that old, closed-out Nokia stock thread (which, by the way, I think was a baseless and stupid thing to do to quash open discussion and speech--glad they learned or decided better this time):
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...postcount=1872



And so MUCH of it too!! Gonna need a bigger bag o' popcorn for this thread!
http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploa...pcorn-Soda.gif



He doesn't have to admit what we ALL knew. Even Balmer knows it deep down somewhere.

http://l2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/t4...dows-phone.gif
I think the jury on Lumias and WP phones is still out. They clearly could not deliver within short time frame, and I didnt expect them to. The duopoly will not be broken overnight. I think what happened is best. NOKIA doesnt have the money that MS has to push this battle forward, and in that sense Elop did not succeed. But just like you try to figure out the causes for why NOKIA failed, you have to look at the leadership failures prior to Elop. That is my whole point here.

daperl 2013-09-06 14:09
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumiaman (Post 1372487)
I think you are missing my point. My point is simple: pre-Elop NOKIA has much to do with the demise of the company, just like preNewBB has much to do with current demise of BB. Neither adapted early on. That is my whole point.

Now here everyone bangs on Elop, when in fact they should be banging on Olli-Pekka, Tomy Looney Ahonen, and all the others that preceded Elop in making horrible decisions. Elop was NOKIA board tool. Everyone in business knows this, except few Tomi lovers on this forum. He is irrelevant and was there for only few years. As a matter of fact, I feel sorry for him. He has real work cut out for him to deliver more with Lumia line under MS.
Your cognitive dissonance is spectacular. The only simple point is this: Nokia was in dire straits and Elop made it worse. Once Elop took the reins, all the responsibility was his. How did he do? He single handedly killed the company in record fashion. That's his thing, or did you not read his bio? For Nokia to be purchased before BlackBerry should have been unthinkable.

daperl 2013-09-06 14:27
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
1 Attachment(s)
That was a short honeymoon:

Attachment 33322

Microsoft-Nokia: No Surprise, No Knockout, No Kidding

Lumiaman 2013-09-06 14:37
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by daperl (Post 1372510)
Your cognitive dissonance is spectacular. The only simple point is this: Nokia was in dire straits and Elop made it worse. Once Elop took the reins, all the responsibility was his. How did he do? He single handedly killed the company in record fashion. That's his thing, or did you not read his bio? For Nokia to be purchased before BlackBerry should have been unthinkable.
And your tunnel vision is a sign of incredible narrow mindednes, not willing to look at causes. Olli-Pekka and Tomi like looneys single handedly killed the company. Elop is used as a scapegoat for Olli and Tomi looneys mistakes. Well done to deflect Finnish disaster on Elop.

daperl 2013-09-06 15:07
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
Here's a decent read about an ex-Nokia insider:

http://www.afr.com/p/technology/next...Lp3mAutUO0ye0H

juiceme 2013-09-06 16:25
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumiaman (Post 1372487)
Now here everyone bangs on Elop, when in fact they should be banging on Olli-Pekka, Tomy Looney Ahonen, and all the others that preceded Elop in making horrible decisions.
I don't think Tomi Ahonen made any mistakes there, AFAIK he's just some consultant, he's never been in Nokia board or management, has he?

Lumiaman 2013-09-06 16:59
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by juiceme (Post 1372542)
I don't think Tomi Ahonen made any mistakes there, AFAIK he's just some consultant, he's never been in Nokia board or management, has he?
He claims to have been an executive....

Lumiaman 2013-09-06 17:02
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by daperl (Post 1372526)
Here's a decent read about an ex-Nokia insider:

http://www.afr.com/p/technology/next...Lp3mAutUO0ye0H
Good article. Ollik-Pekka, Tomi Looneys had a lot of good stuff on their hand and couldnt execute. Opportunity lost.

Lumiaman 2013-09-06 17:39
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
Sounds like a similar story to NOKIA...and BB tried the swype and new UI and got......NADA...except NOKIA may have another day to live and tell..


http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/0...iage/?src=recg

Kangal 2013-09-07 06:38
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
Great bargain for MS.
Sucks for Nokia (undervalued). Sucks worse for Nokia/N900 fans. Moreso to its workers/jolla.
Sucks much much worse for Blackberry now it will be much more undervalued.

I sort of feel like:
MS + RIM = Windows Phone/RT that doesn't suck
Nokia + Palm = Mae-Devices and Ecosystem roll out
SONY + Canonical = A ecosystem (like iOS) for PlayStation built on Linux?

Cue 2013-09-07 13:47
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kangal (Post 1372635)
Great bargain for MS.
Sucks for Nokia (undervalued). Sucks worse for Nokia/N900 fans. Moreso to its workers/jolla.
Sucks much much worse for Blackberry now it will be much more undervalued.

I sort of feel like:
MS + RIM = Windows Phone/RT that doesn't suck
Nokia + Palm = Mae-Devices and Ecosystem roll out
SONY + Canonical = A ecosystem (like iOS) for PlayStation built on Linux?
The PS4 is built on FreeBSD/BSD which is a Unix derivative. However I don't see the advantage of them teaming up with Canonical other than it just being cool that Canonical teamed up with Sony. Canonical's ecosystem is not very TV orientated (though they are pushing Ubuntu TV) it's a desktop OS with desktop apps so there would be little to gain from that partnership. I suppose the touchpad on the PS4 controller can be used to navigate desktop apps much like a laptop touchpad however I feel Sony's partnership on TV is with Google in their GoogleTV OS which is a variant of Android. If TV based apps are going to become a thing then it is Sony's GoogleTV partnership since they have the apps (like plex) that will benefit them since Canonical's ecosystem is desktop based.

danramos 2013-09-11 05:09
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
I have to ask the question: Where does all of this leave maemo.org and talk.maemo.org? If not Nokia, are we now beholden to Microsoft here at community-time around the hippie campfires now?

juiceme 2013-09-11 06:08
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danramos (Post 1373555)
I have to ask the question: Where does all of this leave maemo.org and talk.maemo.org? If not Nokia, are we now beholden to Microsoft here at community-time around the hippie campfires now?
I don't understand the question?
Isn't this what the Hildon Foundation thingy was about, and cutting our ties with Nokia? I kind of thought there was nothing connecting TMO or Maemo any longer into the old Nokia...

Lumiaman 2013-09-11 14:03
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
Where is Nokia heading. Approaching $6!!

uTMY 2013-09-11 14:48
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
However since Nokia is no longer a devices and mobile company and their stock price has no bearing on Maemo forums and it is unlikely now that Nokia will be involved in Maemo in any way in the foreseable future ... can I propose that this thread is now closed and locked by the admins?

rgds

Lumiaman 2013-09-11 14:50
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uTMY (Post 1373658)
However since Nokia is no longer a devices and mobile company and their stock price has no bearing on Maemo forums and it is unlikely now that Nokia will be involved in Maemo in any way in the foreseable future ... can I propose that this thread is now closed and locked by the admins?

rgds
Why? Are you afraid it will hit $10? It still a company involved in mobile experience and communication.

gerbick 2013-09-11 17:01
Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uTMY (Post 1373658)
However since Nokia is no longer a devices and mobile company and their stock price has no bearing on Maemo forums and it is unlikely now that Nokia will be involved in Maemo in any way in the foreseable future ... can I propose that this thread is now closed and locked by the admins?
It's an open discussion about the people that made the phones that many covet and some folks are interested in their daily operations still.

I propose otherwise. Let this open discussion remain open. Participation is not mandatory nor obligatory.


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