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maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)
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-   -   Jolla Tablet Refunds (latest developments) (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94393)

itdoesntmatt 2015-11-23 14:17
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
yes,agree with billranton try to be positive, otherwise no investors will be interested to funding jolla. and i am saying it without having preordered tab

tommo 2015-11-23 14:35
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tortoisedoc (Post 1489303)
No need for a lastu case anymore :(
I feel sorry for Lastu. Sent all the cases to jolla and surprise surprise, , ,they have not been paid.

Fellfrosch 2015-11-23 14:39
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommo (Post 1489314)
I feel sorry for Lastu. Sent all the cases to jolla and surprise surprise, , ,they have not been paid.
Do you know that for sure or is it just speculation.
Maybe Lastu got their money already. Or maybe they haven't produced the cases yet...

tommo 2015-11-23 15:16
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellfrosch (Post 1489316)
Do you know that for sure or is it just speculation.
Maybe Lastu got their money already. Or maybe they haven't produced the cases yet...
This is what lastu told me. Makes our lost tablet money look very small (can't remember how many cases were sold, but guess it was quite a few). :(

maxinflixion 2015-11-23 15:28
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by olighak (Post 1489241)
No, you have 18 months to lodge a dispute. Visa / Mastercard terms!

Go ahead and do it, I am. You can toute that the vendor talked about delivery delay's and then it is now obvious they will never deliver.
I did just this via the old school type up the dispute and fax it method. We'll see what they say. I used screen grabs from IGG showing anticipated delivery in there as well.

billranton 2015-11-23 15:49
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Ah that is sad to hear about Lastu. They have some nice variations on the tablet case on their site for sale too. I hope they get their money as a priority...

nieldk 2015-11-23 15:55
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxinflixion (Post 1489318)
I did just this via the old school type up the dispute and fax it method. We'll see what they say. I used screen grabs from IGG showing anticipated delivery in there as well.
I already told you. You won't be given the dispute (chargeback). Since Indiegogo is a third party.
Similar to when you use booking.com.
Its all in their terms.
You will have to rely on the goodwill of the agent, or Jolla.

Jolla->Indiegogo->you
Airline->booking.com>you

But. We will see.

nieldk 2015-11-23 15:59
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by olighak (Post 1489241)
No, you have 18 months to lodge a dispute. Visa / Mastercard terms!

Go ahead and do it, I am. You can toute that the vendor talked about delivery delay's and then it is now obvious they will never deliver.
The timeframe depends on the issuer.
You will need to check with them (your bank)

Dave999 2015-11-23 17:35
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommo (Post 1489314)
I feel sorry for Lastu. Sent all the cases to jolla and surprise surprise, , ,they have not been paid.
If true it's really sad.

Who is left within Jolla? Anyone actually working with something except planning the restructuring and talk with investor?

A blog post would be nice...

Copernicus 2015-11-23 18:00
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1489358)
A blog post would be nice...
At this moment, who is left to write one? :(

Dave999 2015-11-23 18:16
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Copernicus (Post 1489369)
At this moment, who is left to write one? :(
Marc could do it. He started the whole thing. Or someone of the other cofounders.

nieldk 2015-11-23 19:03
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1489374)
Marc could do it. He started the whole thing. Or someone of the other cofounders.
This comes to mind Dave

Dave999 2015-11-23 19:22
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nieldk (Post 1489320)
I already told you. You won't be given the dispute (chargeback). Since Indiegogo is a third party.
Similar to when you use booking.com.
Its all in their terms.
You will have to rely on the goodwill of the agent, or Jolla.

Jolla->Indiegogo->you
Airline->booking.com>you

But. We will see.
What if you have a receipt from jolla store which I have since I got the combo and jolla has only delivered half?

http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/ecc/do..._report_en.pdf

gerbick 2015-11-23 19:30
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MINKIN2 (Post 1489308)
Need for a Lastu case, of course not. I wonder what will happen to them all now? Jolla will be dragging Lastu's name down with them.
Actually, they will not; not exactly. The Lastucase purchase via IGG is separate from the ones being sold on the Lastucase website.

I've received my Lastucase from the website August 19th. They delivered. Tying the ones in the IGG campaign and linking the shipment of the tablet is the problem - Lastucase can manufacture the covers/cases without issue.

It's pretty clean cut to me. If money went to Lastucase, they could send the cases out. They will not be dragged down by this unfortunate consequence of being tied to the IGG campaign in my estimation.

nieldk 2015-11-23 19:33
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1489401)
What if you have a receipt from jolla store which I have since I got the combo and jolla has only delivered half?
Then you might have a chance of getting *some* back.
Of course, in the given situation, it may be that Jolla is simply not able to. Then your claim for charge back is put into the pot with every other kreditor. Leaving you very likely , again, with zero.

tommo 2015-11-23 19:42
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1489403)
Actually, they will not; not exactly. The Lastucase purchase via IGG is separate from the ones being sold on the Lastucase website.

I've received my Lastucase from the website August 19th. They delivered. Tying the ones in the IGG campaign and linking the shipment of the tablet is the problem - Lastucase can manufacture the covers/cases without issue.

It's pretty clean cut to me. If money went to Lastucase, they could send the cases out. They will not be dragged down by this unfortunate consequence of being tied to the IGG campaign in my estimation.
They sent all cases to jolla and never got paid

billranton 2015-11-23 19:43
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
My lastucase came in the same parcel as my tablet. Different packaging, but defintely shipped by Jolla.

gerbick 2015-11-23 20:01
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommo (Post 1489407)
They sent all cases to jolla and never got paid
Do not take this as disrespect, but that's been proven? I hope that's not the case to be honest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billranton (Post 1489408)
My lastucase came in the same parcel as my tablet. Different packaging, but defintely shipped by Jolla.
Gotcha. Now I know more... appreciate it.

Casanunda 2015-11-23 20:05
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Why is it so hard for people to understand that as an IGG or KS backer, you basically have NO rights to claim? Just RTFM, or in this case read terms and conditions of IGG.
You are making a donation, and the founder of the campaign MAY give you a perk as reward if everything goes well.

Heck, nowadays most IGG campaigns are "flexible funding".
That means you pay even if the campaign target is not reached, i.e. there's (almost) no chance you'll ever get your perk.

Apart from that, I really do believe the people at Jolla were and are still trying to get on with getting that funding, delivering all tablets and going on with business. I can see no fraud here.

Open Communication about financial situation is a nice idea, but not very clever when doing real business. Making public statement “if we don't get new funding soon, we'll be bancrupt in 26 days” is not really clever while negotiating new funding with investor. Never.

As long as there's hope, you don't scream “we're doomed” all over the place. That's just STUPID.

Besides, everybody knew they are a startup, and also it was easy to see that selling some 10.000 phones was not enough for them to stay in business for the next fes years, i.e. they needed additional funding every year. Until a few days / weeks ago, they were hoping to get their new funding on time to not have any of the trouble we are currently seeing.

And I'm still hoping they will finish their financing round.

tommo 2015-11-23 20:11
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1489412)
Do not take this as disrespect, but that's been proven? I hope that's not the case to be honest.



Gotcha. Now I know more... appreciate it.
I don't have detailed accounts or unpaid invoices :))

but I have twitter https://mobile.twitter.com/lastucase

Dave999 2015-11-23 20:12
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casanunda (Post 1489414)
Why is it so hard for people to understand that as an IGG or KS backer, you basically have NO rights to claim? Just RTFM, or in this case read terms and conditions of IGG.
You are making a donation, and the founder of the campaign MAY give you a perk as reward if everything goes well.

Heck, nowadays most IGG campaigns are "flexible funding".
That means you pay even if the campaign target is not reached, i.e. there's (almost) no chance you'll ever get your perk.

Apart from that, I really do believe the people at Jolla were and are still trying to get on with getting that funding, delivering all tablets and going on with business. I can see no fraud here.

Open Communication about financial situation is a nice idea, but not very clever when doing real business. Making public statement “if we don't get new funding soon, we'll be bancrupt in 26 days” is not really clever while negotiating new funding with investor. Never.

As long as there's hope, you don't scream “we're doomed” all over the place. That's just STUPID.

Besides, everybody knew they are a startup, and also it was easy to see that selling some 10.000 phones was not enough for them to stay in business for the next fes years, i.e. they needed additional funding every year. Until a few days / weeks ago, they were hoping to get their new funding on time to not have any of the trouble we are currently seeing.

And I'm still hoping they will finish their financing round.


Yeah, well then Jolla should basically skip all IGG backers and Favour the ones buying it from the shop.

gerbick 2015-11-23 20:21
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommo (Post 1489416)
I don't have detailed accounts or unpaid invoices :))

but I have twitter https://mobile.twitter.com/lastucase
Hell, that works. Thanks for sharing, was unaware of this, thus my questions.

tommo 2015-11-23 20:44
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1489420)
Hell, that works. Thanks for sharing, was unaware of this, thus my questions.
Not a problem, at least lastu don't have a problem relaying information and being honest!
Can anyone remember how many cases were 'sold'?

Dave999 2015-11-23 20:49
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommo (Post 1489429)
Not a problem, at least lastu don't have a problem relaying information and being honest!
Can anyone remember how many cases were 'sold'?
Not sure but would estimate (4500 cases) it around $200.000 - $300.000

Casanunda 2015-11-23 20:59
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1489417)
Yeah, well then Jolla should basically skip all IGG backers and Favour the ones buying it from the shop.
erm... almost.

Maybe it's not a completely bad idea for a company to deliver ALL tablets.
AFTER getting funding to go on with business for another year...

(and please don't say that's not serious business model - it's how startups work...)

mikecomputing 2015-11-23 21:00
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by billranton (Post 1489307)
Yes, they ordered something from a shop, and that's a contract to deliver or refund. Funding a kickstarter is a donation. Not that it matters anyway, because Jolla will get their next round of funding and everyone will get their tablets. If they don't, no-one will get any refunds because they will be bankrupt.

Don't give up people! We're meant to be doing it together!!
oh cmon!!! Its over got damn!

billranton 2015-11-23 21:10
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1489434)
oh cmon!!! Its over got damn!
With that attitude it is

mikecomputing 2015-11-23 21:11
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommo (Post 1489416)
I don't have detailed accounts or unpaid invoices :))

but I have twitter https://mobile.twitter.com/lastucase
Sound bad, really really bad. Time to forget about Jolla tablet. I give up.
2016 Jolla is no more.

Any tablet out there that can be rooted to running kde or sfos?

minimos 2015-11-23 21:35
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casanunda (Post 1489414)
Why is it so hard for people to understand that as an IGG or KS backer, you basically have NO rights to claim? Just RTFM, or in this case read terms and conditions of IGG.
Besides, KS/IGG simply collect the money *during* the campaign. When the time for crowdfunding ends, depending on the result either they give the collected amount of money (minus their juicy cut) to the creator of the campaign, or they return it to the contributors. THE END. Not their problem anymore.
Afterwards for issues about undelivered/unsatisfying perks, it's only directly between campaign organizer and contributor.

Dave999 2015-11-23 21:44
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
It seems that some of you forgetting that people also bought this tablet from Jolla shop so not sure what you trying to achieve by explaining what IGG/KS is. It's basically irrelevant now.

We are all customers/backers/investers/supporter/old Jolla employee /humans ...we all have the same right.

Hope she got some Intel behind this twitt.
https://twitter.com/cybette/status/668909078182240257

ZogG 2015-11-24 06:38
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
https://ralphlosey.files.wordpress.c...6/lemmings.jpg
Line for tablet :)

nieldk 2015-11-24 07:24
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1489446)
It seems that some of you forgetting that people also bought this tablet from Jolla shop so not sure what you trying to achieve by explaining what IGG/KS is. It's basically irrelevant now.

We are all customers/backers/investers/supporter/old Jolla employee /humans ...we all have the same right.

Hope she got some Intel behind this twitt.
https://twitter.com/cybette/status/668909078182240257
I would say , yes Dave, the shop orders is different from IGG situation, also, see my post

http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...&postcount=225

nieldk 2015-11-24 10:19
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Update from Jolla

https://blog.jolla.com/open-letter-jolla-community/

tiempjuuh 2015-11-24 10:50
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
It doesn't even spell the word 'tough' right. Seems to be written in quite a hurry.

Dave999 2015-11-24 11:12
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nieldk (Post 1489488)
Always nice with an update!

Is it good news or bad news? Can't really tell.

mikelima 2015-11-24 11:31
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1489495)
Always nice with an update!

Is it good news or bad news? Can't really tell.
Well, the bad news was already out, so spelling out the plan ahead was a needed step.

The ("temporary") layoffs were probably unavoidable at this point, and it may be part of the requirements for further funding (or acquisition). The situation is bad, but they are not dead yet.

Of course, this looks worse than anything that already happened, but well, I still hope they recover.

Dave999 2015-11-24 11:44
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikelima (Post 1489496)
Well, the bad news was already out, so spelling out the plan ahead was a needed step.

The ("temporary") layoffs were probably unavoidable at this point, and it may be part of the requirements for further funding (or acquisition). The situation is bad, but they are not dead yet.

Of course, this looks worse than anything that already happened, but well, I still hope they recover.
What about the tablet since is the tablet thread. When do we get it?

Jedibeeftrix 2015-11-24 11:57
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikelima (Post 1489496)
Well, the bad news was already out, so spelling out the plan ahead was a needed step.

The ("temporary") layoffs were probably unavoidable at this point, and it may be part of the requirements for further funding (or acquisition). The situation is bad, but they are not dead yet.

Of course, this looks worse than anything that already happened, but well, I still hope they recover.
i want them to survive, but if they really can't make it long term i hope they hold on long enough to give as a SFOS that builds against cyanogen 13 and qt 5.6 LTS

nieldk 2015-11-24 12:12
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1489499)
What about the tablet since is the tablet thread. When do we get it?
here is the answer to your question 42

pichlo 2015-11-24 12:27
Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nieldk (Post 1489502)
here is the answer to your question 42
Surely it's mu.


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