Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

IBM use PEAP so realistically if I got this phone I cant use it at work...

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

What headphones are you using?

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

After about a week or so of Jolla usage, today I held my N9 again and realised what a perfect size it is... To me, Jolla might even be slightly too big. I know I'm not the only one, I know a few people who felt like they had to go to iPhone because Androids just keep getting bigger and bigger. I think 4" is the perfect size (N9 was 3,9" with 16:9 screen).

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Thanks for totally useless post. If you don't like reading my comments then add me to your ignore list.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Ironically, MTP works better on Windows that on most GNU desktops.

Please remember MTP is still mostly a MS specification. It is only used because the only other alternatives natively compatible with Windows (Mass Storage, NDIS) each have their own disadvantages.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Feel free to keep posting your uninformed statements.

There. Added. Done.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

First of all you probably not draw conclusions based on misquotes or misunderstandings of certain statements

Secondly it is not because there is a Mac OS X beta that we are running it. We cannot run that in a production environment.

Thirdly if a widely trusted and used MTP application works for all MTP devices out there, and also works for us why not use it?

Four, Apple did broke this widely used app, most likely on purpose to annoy owners of non-apple products and give their fanboys something to brag about. (Maybe because most Android and WP phones, a shitload of non-apple music players, etc use MTP these days and they hope this will force people to buy Apple gear?)

Five having your own closed API is cool, but that means you need to provide a client for everything out there. Cool if you have the capabilities, but why not using an industry standard? If there are solutions for people unfortunate enough to have to work on the most anti-competitive and most limited OS out there why would waste time on such a client or API? Especially if with this standard you have it working by default on >80 % of the available systems

Don't you think we noticed it was broken, but what could we do on short notice? We are trying to resolve the problem. But arguing that we do not test or take things into account for Mac OS X users is plain false. If there is someone to blame for issues with Mac OS X you should rather complain to Apple...

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

That goes both ways. Please learn how to address the public - especially when you're being questioned rightly or wrongly so. And how to read (see below) content as it's may be meant, not how you may have taken it. I inquired simply if any testing had happened. Then I raised concern and elevated inquiry to doubt. I don't mind admitting that I might be wrong - prove it to be such the case. But my tone is acceptable; so should yours.

I think you misunderstood. Mac OS X Mavericks was in beta for a almost a year. Either you ran it or not. That's a yes/no answer. But that's not where my concern was located.

As it stands, OS X Mavericks... was it ever tested? Release or beta? Not that you were running under beta, was it tested in any version was the question.

Good question that I honestly do not have an answer to; only the aforesaid samples of BlackBerry with their BlackBerry Link application and the (now broken) Android connectivity application that the Mavericks (10.9) update had broken.

They broke Android. I can still sync my BlackBerry Z10 without incident. I can still view the contents of my microSD card too. The point I made was that if BlackBerry could do it, so could you. The "how", I am personally unsure. In fact, just tested the Microsoft Windows Phone OS X app, it works too. Syncs without incident - but it's never truly ever given access to the file system.

If you want me to investigate anything any more, I'm more than capable and willing to do so. And I have access to many OS X machines from 10.6 to 10.9.

This is speculation. I've personally don't see the need or see any gain in discussing this when my concern was simply about the fact if/if not testing on OS X had ever occurred.

So you use a distro I've honestly never have heard about, yet you regard OS X as an operating system that nobody knows about? I hope that I'm misreading this statement.

Regardless, understand that your patrons might use operating systems that you'll never properly touch yet... they are your patrons. 16 years of development, I've had to extend to support esoteric operating systems like AIX, IRIX (SGI), HP-UX, (way too many versions of) BSD to versions of Windows I've never heard about - Windows XP Embedded for instance. I've done so begrudgingly so, on devices and applications that saw less exposure than your product and I know the rigors of testing.

It's not fun but it's part of the job.

And when I doubt/inquire/question if something has been tested, it's for a real good reason. No need for vitriol, just answer the question if you can. If you cannot, that's also fine as well.

Regardless; good luck on your endeavors, understand that the user might have/require different things than yourself and if you take it personal, you shouldn't have because that is not how I meant it. So I apologize if you took it personal.

I just doubt the depth of testing across platforms at this moment. Still do.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

so far I have not need any of those crappy android apps.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

First day with the Jolla and i do love it.

Thanks to the community here (and agressiv reading from my part) i didn't had any problems in setting up the phone.

Booted, enabled dev-mode, updated to Laddunjärvi (1.0.1.12), rebooted, installed store and Dalvik Cache. Rest of the evening was E-Mail settings (SSL Ports etc), Twitter, Sonos and browsing the Jolla Store. Added mer tools, less and nano. Tested the file manager from Store and installed the other from repository.
Even got the latest version of tweetian from one of the Jolla employees Tweet from today.

WLAN and Bluetooth headphones (Nokia Purity HD) worked immediatly and very reliable.

One thing i didn't managed althought following this thread from Day One: the darn 64GB microSD card mounted.

Can anyone write me please the command that worked for him / her? Plus did you use the internal bash os SSH?

Will write more when i have my microSIM tomorrow and can test calls / txt etc.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Many companies and organizations are using in their wireless-networks PEAP / TKIP / MS-CHAP, and that is IRL... At home you can use what you want...

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Blarghh.
This is what makes me reject touchscreen-only devices. They have never really been intended for typing. Just swiping, tapping, consuming. Not making, producing.
You gotta have a superb, mature solution for it or it's terribly fumbly and inconvenient, like everything below the level of sophistication of BB10 actually is ("everything" meaning all available kinds of touchscreen text input).

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

So, i had some fun with Jolla and Alien Dalvik over the last 2 days, maybe some of you are interested...

Android apps are stored in /data/sdcard
every Android app creates it's own user , something like 10011, 10020, 10025 and so on...

some apps create files with createmask like 600, so that only this app can read and write that files.

I installed Locus Pro for example (btw: androidpit is a great place to get paid and non-paid anroid apps) and then tried to install Locus Map Tweaks to get more maps, but it failed without an error message.

As you can see above, every Android app has it's own user and one app has no right to write into other apps folders.

so, i logged in via SSH and did a
... and everything worked.

yes, i tried with 775, but it did not work...

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

It is hard to know something is broken before release unless it was tested no? So yes it was tested on Mavericks release. But when the discovery was made that things were broken there was just no time to come up with an alternative.

Blackberry had/has how many hundereds of engineers? They probably have a team of 15-20 people for just handling their own closed sync solution. And as I stated that also means making clients for Windows, Linux etc and test it on all those versions. Same for Nokia. They even have several hunders of engineers doing the Lumias without even developing the OS, as they mostly port and do some apps.

Now take an accepted standard and test if it works. So if yes you use that as it is a lot less work. That is the whole point of standards.... But then things can sometimes go wrong if some OS maker does not do its job well. And given Apples history attributing it to malice is not too far fetched.

Again I have clarified this earlier (I think even to you) that it was the name of my desktop environment. It is not because you don't know my graphical UI that my distro is obscure.

And you misunderstood. I did not say OS X is obscure, just that we don't have much in house OS X knowledge and having to do this work, when it is not expected, is quite hard. Especially if at original testing and decision time things are working.

I did, this is why my tone was more angry than it should have been. My apologies for that.

I especially took it personal since I can't tell you how frustrating it is when something that works just gets broken by a third party. Especially one that refuses to support almost anything to push its own walled garden. And people just trying to blame you for that.
More so because I have already explained many times we are very serious about finding a solution, I even made a post where I point out that I already made some provisions to mitigate the issue like mass-storage export of the SD card. So that at least something works until a real solution can be found for this one problematic OS.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

I'm confused. He disagrees with you, so ..., you ignore him?

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

It was never truly there. But I get what you're saying.

I admit, that was an unfair comparison. To me, it's really more about how it's an amazing feat that they tasked anybody on the OS X version.

That's going to be a problem. There's no real standard that "might" not include some submarine patents and/or differing implementations even within OS revisions and/or builds. Simply stated, there's no immediate fix. But that's going to be a problem in the near future once things go more mainstream.

I'm sure a solution will present itself.

I'm quite sure the community (now or later) will be willing to assist on those endeavors on Windows, Linux (Debian, Ubuntu or otherwise), BSD, OS X and whatever is adopted by the users that have purchased a Jolla phone.

Not a problem. We all get heated from time to time. Shows either compassion, conviction or both. Apology accepted.

I'm sure you guys will find a solution sooner than later. Kudos and continued success on your endeavors.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

I had a quick look at what is out there for MTP and the Mac and my findings are in this thread...

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...54#post1398954

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

It's fanboyism and reading this thread has shown up many such posters :)

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Just dropping a note that XFS on the micro SD card does not seem to be supported yet: :)

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Just save all the argument about WPA/WPA2... both can be broken depending on how patient you are (or how much you are willing to spend). Wireless security these days is largely about "that guys network over there is faster/easier to break than mine... try his instead" and not so much about actual security :p

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

It shouldn't require a forum ora community to get a device purchased into a productive state. It should take a tutorial.

The worth of a platform shouldn't be found in apps or services from competitors. It should be evident in native apps and services that support of a competitor means quality and character were esteemed and insisted.

It shouldn't take afew thousand posts to find a roadmap. ACompany with a clear vision executes; what's not present now should appear when its ready and according to the quality felt in what is had.

If its beta, then be beta. But don't make the finish line or the first leg what is clearly a warm up lap.

If the vision is clear, the experience doesn't need a work-around.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Maybe you should re-read what I wrote. I'm not ignoring him, but he can ignore me us much he likes.

But I'm not using any of my time to reply to that particular post when he is writing a post that attack people and have not any sensible material to which to reply. If he had written good argumentations against my writings and and not used personal attacks I would have continue discussion with him about the points.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

It has nothing to do with fanboyism. It is all about good manners.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Its true that it doesn't work on OSX 10.8 either. I think people are making assumption that Mavericks broke MTP on OSX. I still haven't upgraded to Mavericks and Jolla don't show up for me either.

I guess they had somekind of syncing solution ready that doesn't work on Mavericks, but I don't understand why plugging Jolla to my hackintosh won't work, if they had solution pre-Mavericks/OSX 10.9.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

If I this time understood correctly what Philippe said, you need to install Google's MTP software on pre-Mavericks Macs.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Yep. http://www.android.com/filetransfer/

It's essentially a very basic gui that looks a bit like a Finder window from the 1990s which wraps around the open source libmtp and libusb libraries to provide support for a closed protocol developed by Microsoft for the Zune and the PlaysForSure devices.

Google seem to have extended at some point too. It's obviously just the sort of thing Apple would be more than keen to support.

There's also a PTP protocol for photos that cameras and iPhoto/Aperture etc use but that doesn't seem to work well either on the Jolla .

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Jesus ****ing christ stop flooding the thread with ******** about MTP. Make a ****ing thread to fight over it.

Soz for anger but that's frustrating.
As far as I'm concerned, mtp is Multi Terran Pattern -camo, used by british army and its superior in majority of settings. Pun intended.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

I have tried to help all of you here at TMO, and to bring out perspectives that are not first thought. It seems that some people think it is about fanboyism.

I can see the flaws on the Jolla but that doesn't mean there isn't also something good at it. And I have been happy to hear both successes and failures/problems here. In failure cases I have tried to help people to get around those failures if I have been able to do it. And in some cases I have been successful on those based on the feedback. And those tips are not for non-technical people. I know that.

I definitely live on a bubble and I know it. I can see it when I go around. But so is almost all people here. There has been discussion about "average joe". There are some features that are very popular and highly used on smartphones and are common like voice calls and SMS but these features are few in numbers. What other features people are using are greatly varied by country, age group, gender, trends and technical capabilities of people. So I'm very skeptical when somebody will say something like: this product will not succeed because it has no feature X and Y, or that the product is not fit for "average joe", or that the product is crap because it doesn't have this feature. It is not about fanboyism or some illogical thing. But if people here want to think like that, it is okay.

And I hope people will tell what they think about Jolla and I hope that Jolla will listen and improve things based on that. I for example is waiting many features and fixes that I hope Jolla will bring, and I'm also waiting to see how Jolla will be able to surprise me in the future (hopefully in positive manners). And I don't know what will happen to Jolla, if it will be a success or not.

I also hope that people here try to respect each other, and don't do personal attacks to others. I have tried to keep up on that premise. I don't know if I have been successful. If I have offended anybody I offer an apology.

But I have come to a conclusion that my journey here at TMO has come to an end for time being. I have followed irregulary ITT and TMO as long as they have been, and I might come back at later time. Hopefully the level of discussion will rise when I'm not disturbing the discussions with my "fanboy" comments and "seriously flawed" writings :D

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year for ALL of you.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

@att
Sad to read that you are frustrated and hope you are back soon.
I can definitely understand your position. And don't know why here are so many people who are whining that the Jolla can't do this and can't do that.

I allways thought, that everbody here in TMO and who have ordered the Jolla phone, knows exactly that the phone won't be perfect (art least at the beginning) and that there will be missing features. But give it a little while for judging if it is a good or a bad phone. At the beginning I also thought that the N900 is missing a lot and now? I still love it and don't miss to much. And if you consider that there are just around 100 Employees at Jolla it's a great feat!

Wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

I always thought if a device couldnt do this or couldnt do that, they wouldnt whine, they'd make it happen, I thought that was the point of tmo

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

We know no product is perfect from beginning.
Still we can complain about missing features which are essential to all or some of us. And to this extend this was not known.
Why do you (and others) write about *whining*. This is simply immature and not true at all.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

To bring this back onto topic.

Location settings. Given the drain this has on the battery it would be good if it could be added as a toggle on the front page of settings, like Bluetooth and WLAN ect. Currently once added it just takes you to the setting page where the only option is to turn it off anyway.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

You can add the actual on/off toggle to favourites

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Well thank you very much. I did not think to try that.

Problem solved and knowledge added to. :cool:

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Most of the visible drain was caused by it not always turning off correctly, which AFAIR has been fixed.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

I'm puzzled why it's an 'on all the time' or 'off all the time' setting.

It's great that we can switch location services off entirely but would rather the 'on' setting meant that it powered up and down when asked.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

I'm also wondering. On the N9 GPS was only active if using maps, etc.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Criticism and disagreements are perfectly fine. Those have been happening here for years. Personal attacks and insults are not okay. Nobody here is a fanboy of anything but this community. Jolla is to a certain degree a product of this community but it is also a commercial product that some of us have paid good money for and we rightly expect certain things to work the way we need them to. We have every right to harshly criticise them when they don't live up to the philosophy and standards that we expect them to uphold. That's a given.

Childish insults that only result in alienating and silencing some of the most enthusiastic community members won't get us anywhere.

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

Agree...

There are aspects to it that are very good... and I just can't seem to get enough of doing this all day:

http://vimeo.com/82320660

(My Jolla playing audio / video streams shot with 808 to prove a point on some Android minded forum)

Re: Jolla User Experience Thread
 

The copy paste works when you are writing something yourself. You just "paint" the text you want and that is copied to the clipboard. You can use the Paste icon (the one next to the suggested words) to paste your text. No opportunity to clean the clipboard ATM, althought you can just replace the copied text with a new one.

Agree with the next two, the first I miss from N9. Not sure how it would fit the logic of Jolla, though.

You can swipe open the feed screen to see more of the notifications and to access them. (Not sure if you meant just that.)