Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

The delays to the tablet were not software related at all. If they hadn't spent any time improving the OS, then they still would have run out of money before the tablet shipped. In fact, without the indication of return on investment that their work on the OS was producing, their investors would have pulled out last December instead.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Did you read what I wrote? Never mind, my point was that even start up must consider budgets and adjust.

To give you an example and it could be a real case for all we know. The single Jolla investers have same point as me. Expecting something and got something else for his money and Now have questions.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

While we are waiting for News...

If Jolla came up with a second Indiegogo campaign right now, Jolla Phone ll, 499 Euro.

Would you consider to join?

Or transfer your Jolla tablet payment to a gift to Jolla and skip the tablet to help Jolla?

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Shut up and take my money!


:p

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

If they completed their next funding round, then definitely, without hesitation. I wish they'd made a €500 phone to start with. I think if they'd known the cheap one would fail so hard they would have.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Budget is done on presumption, which is adjusted if something happens that makes the presumption false. This is exactly what Jolla has done, as the presumption has been that financing round C is completed in time. It didn't happen, but it could not have been known when budget for 2015 was made. As the the company is currently completely dependent on external financing, all they can do is to push forward as much as they can when they have money to have something to show to investors when the time comes to ask for more, until there are enough customers to finance the operations.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

True however a 500 Euro phone is not what it used to be. Before it was high end, nowadays is midrange...tops. Add to that Jollas limited numbers limits the specs even more. But yeah, some more Memory and better screen would be nice.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

They are not idiots, it is just the 5 Stages of Loss and Grief:

1. Denial
2. Anger
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Acceptance

Most are still in the Denial phase ("They will get financing in December and we will get our tablets."), some in the Anger phase.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

You're right. I reckon a good target price would be whatever the price of an iPhone is right now. I'd expect a HW keyboard too.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Acceptance would be my phase. At the time of my backing, it was a statement more of that I support their ideals, their engineers and hopefully I'd have a choice of a device that was not iOS, Android, Microsoft or spying on me and closer aligned to my wants/needs of being more open than closed off or just convenient without other benefits.

Simply stated, my backing will now be seen as a donation until otherwise proven differently. It does not hurt my pocket as much as it would removing that option in a device. And knowing that a good group of people are out of work at this moment doesn't sit well with me either.

I wish Jolla luck.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

I'm in state 2. Anger.

I'm not really angry since it's nothing to be angry about. I'm more annoyed/confused that they didn't manage focus enough on the tablet to make something for the wild by now given their plan, also because so many had to pay for jollas misjudgement of their investor. Will start barging with jolla, myself and some of you any day now before I go in depression next month...

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

No disrespect, but companies come and go and unfortunately their promises may go unfulfilled. For instance, I was really interested in the Orange Chef's countertop kitchen scale and food prep device. The scale came out, disappointed but the food prep device has been cancelled.

No huge announcement, just a succinctly stated email stating that I was not charged. That's it.

**** happens. Being continually vocally and angry about it resolves nothing. In fact, if any investor worth a damn were to run across continued negative customer rants like yours, I'd rather not invest and inherit people like that. I'd skip past to the next, lesser risky investment.

You're adding to that negativity. And before you feel as if I'm assaulting your ability to lash out, be angry, want to headlock anybody associated with the yet unresolved tablet shipment... I get it. I truly do.

But maaaaan, cool your jets. You've used fraud so much in this thread that it doesn't even seem like a word any longer.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Haha, man I love you always well phrased and interesting words trying to understand what you are talking about. Especially when your messages are short like this. I thought you did know it by now, I'm always very vocal both when good news and bad news comes.

I think the investor have a far better understanding what is happening and happend, what the goal of investment is and why he/she took the decision , No need to read my posts for that.

Don't start me up on the subject of fraud again I have some valid arguments :D

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

I honestly find the notion that the decisions of wealthy investors might be affected by a few people ranting on the internets to be quite ludicrous. If that were all it took to change the ways of capital, the world would be a very different place.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Are you BOTH out of your minds?

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Equally ludicrous is that the few upset as hell folks will make a difference. If that were all it took to get change, the world would be a very different place.

Either notion can be reduced to silliness. Pick your poison.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Gerbick. No one is upset as hell in this thread except maybe Mikecomputing from time to time. But I think he suffer from the same issue as me...the languages skills, can't be so precise in my words as I want so it often sounds like I'm angry when I'm not. Might not always getting the right message across because of that.

Think its a pretty healthy image of Jolla we are painting here. All opinions are valid, at least in my mind.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

When one of the selling points of Jolla is the strength of its community, I think the reactions of that community to a crisis are very important to an investor. Unfortunately, it's part of the nature of the internet that loud minority voices are perceived to be a larger part of the community than they really are.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

I never said they were invalid. I find the repetitiveness unnecessary because it will do nothing more than say the very same thing over and over - a fact that we already know "I've not received my tablet. I'm disappointed by this news. I had high hopes that my money was well-spent and I am unhappy."

But to use angry words, legalese and other rhetoric... what does it resolve? Show the world you're upset?

Consider that job very well done.

You have your stance. I have mine. In the end, we all want the same thing. I'd just rather avoid raising my blood pressure over something as impermanent as a tablet or over something I cannot control, Jolla's business standing. That's what I consider healthy.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

True,
I think the biggest different is how to get there. You want silance or not repeated messages. I want the user to be able to step in at any time and ask or share his/her opinion. I think it's up to the reader and not the poster to ignore messages(unless going on personal attacks or other forbidden tasks)

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

I don't want silence. Not at all. I just want civil discussion. You can show your anger in many different forms. But all caps, fraud, "I'm so angry that I could punch a tree" type of posts rarely conveys what you're probably meaning to convey. It just comes off as something ignorable. A child's tantrum.

It's hard to ask questions, give updates when they're buried under oft repeated "OOOH, I WON'T GET MY TABLET BY CHRISTMAS, SO TO HELL WITH <insert name/company/country/city/norse god or favorite expletive>" just reads the same over and over. I've been getting my updates elsewhere (which... there's really none at the moment).

That's my point. It clouds communication, only incites and perpetuates rage. That's what I find difficult. And to start snapping about who said what and their take is invalid/incredible or whatever invalidates their meaning. But if it's hard to glean the meaning due to aforesaid rant style. That's what I'm addressing.

Wanna stay angry, so be it. Want to hoist torches and pitchforks, so be it. Want to be civil, discuss and update accordingly, so be it.

I'm merely bringing forward my stance. You've had your chance to bring your stance up quite a bit.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

That Christmas threat is one of my favorites.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

I actually had that as my home page for a bit.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

What do you mean?

Anyway hope for some tablet news tomorrow.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

PR != reality.

If every single one of the tablet backers promised never to use a Jolla product ever again, I doubt it would make a difference. Current Sailfish users are guinea pigs, nothing more. The real Jolla customers (at least according to plan A) are the vendors, and those vendors would be selling devices to an entirely different group of people.

Do you think if Intex (or some other vendor) made a licensing deal contingent on them being able to include intrusive ads and data-mining services, that Jolla would say 'no, we are community focused'?

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Mikecomputing had a countdown link - https://countingdownto.com/countdown...ountdown-clock

The Christmas threats were prior.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Actually, I do. I don't believe Jolla would pursue a deal like that, the same as I don't believe they'd agree to the Google services license. It's their raison d'etre, which is my point. Of course, it's a chilling possibility that the next few months may leave them Jolla only by name, in which case anything could happen...

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Anyone knows the date of restructuring start? Is the public knowledge in Finland?

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Hi,

here is a thought from somebody that knows plenty of the Jolla folks:

If you are thinking about the continuation of Jolla, then take a look at the facts on who is still around. In reality, all key contributors have left already or will leave in the near future. Here is a list:
Marc Dillon, Co-Founder & COO (former Maemo Variant Manager): Gone
Carsten Munk, Head of R&D (Former MeeGo developer): Gone
Valerio Valerio, Chief Software Engineer (former Maemo contributor): Gone
Souyma Bijjal, Head of SDK (former Maemo SDK program manager): Gone
Stefano Mosconi, Founder&CIO (former Maemo IT Manager): Leaving
Annikka Hautamäki, Chief Products Officer (former Maemo Product Manager): leaving
Pekka Itäpelto, Head of Business Development (former Nokia consultant): Gone
Tim McDonald, Marketing Director (former nokia.com design lead): Gone
Mikko Pykkö, VP Sales&Marketing (former Nokia sales director): leaving

Does anybody truly believe that Jolla will continue without these guys?

The only two guys "left" are Antti Saarnio and Sami Pienimäki who are already working on their next "adventure".

Jolla was a very ambitious project, maybe too good to be true. I personally believe that something like Sailfish OS will one day happen just like Linux takes over gradually more of the computing world. But Jolla? Well, the last word hasn't been spoken, but it won't be long until then.

Peter (former Head of Maemo Marketing, Host of Maemo Summit Amsterdam)

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Hi Peter.
Next adventures, I take it as it's not Jolla phone ll ;)

A question?
Why going for restructuring then? Just for fun or to protect assets? Another fake move?

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Tomorrow as in today? Why? Anything special happening?

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Why going for restructuring then? Just for fun or to protect assets?

As far as I know from my time as an entrepreneur, the process of ramping down any company in Finland includes several mandatory steps: the first is the debt restructuring. You cannot avoid this step even if you wanted to. You can recover from debt restructuring and keep on going but if you are out of money you got to do the debt restructuring first before you can close the shop.

See more info under: https://www.prh.fi/en/kaupparekister...sakeyhtio.html

Peter

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

So we are ****ed, lastu is ****ed. Good news. Finally this Saga comes to the end.

The End

Lets cheer for in unlikely open-sourceing of the OS!

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

In preparation of bankrupcy? If they are not 100% sure of being able to continue, it might be better to prepare for the worst? Maybe they are going to sell the company? And before that, they might want to settle debts (through restructuring)? Or they are trying to become more interesting for investors? Or, they are just shutting everything down; difficult to believe they want to do got this way intentionally, as according to the latest news they have been in talks with different vendors; plus, the intex lead must have a contractual bond of some sort.

Would Jolla matter per se tho? I mean, as a licensing entity it can pretty much function as an empty shell / just that? As in, something that basically validates the licesing (like the FSF does with the GPL).

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

To run a business, you need:
a) customers
b) employees
c) money

Jolla got customers, maybe the most loyal ones out there, even more loyal than Apple fans.

Most key employees have left or a leaving. Plenty of great guys and gals are still official Jolla employees but without pay, how long?

Money? Well, Jolla has got plenty of loans. Jolla has been getting 7.8 Million Euro of tax payers money, the majority of that being loans. The value of the company is not in product (Sailfish OS) because it is mostly open source, but the hero people that came together for this aspirational mission. And those people have left. And if it comes to debt restructuring, the first ones typically getting their hand onto any money left are the investors (i.e. the Hong Kong connection, if he was smart) and not the ones that loaned money (aka the Finnish tax payers). And who buys a company with that amount of loans and without the key employees?

Peter

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Come on, this type of business is known to be not profitable on the short term; if none believed it, why did they even try?

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

You should have heard the Head of Tekes (The Finnish Funding Agency for Innovation, Government-funded) talking about why he supports giving Jolla money: he put Nokia and Jolla into the same powerpoint slide and believed Jolla was to become the next Nokia.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

So they should have no problem in putting more money in it no? ;)

Anyways, if it's not faith that was missing, something must have changed their minds.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

What are the fins thinking? Put $500 millions of taxpayers money in Jolla right now!

We must try the tablet atleast :D

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Slight corrections, while not disputing it looks bad:

• I'm not 'gone' any further than still pushing SailfishOS through contracting, which I also did for first many years of Jolla (and my last role was CTO, R&D fwiw.); where I switched to be a company for personal direction reasons, not because of the company.
  
• "Chief software engineer" is a technical lead title in Jolla, which is not the only one. We are agile and swift around roles usually.
  
• Soumya Bijjal was effectively Software Program Manager and Vesa-Matti Hartikainen has been that since quite a while now, and still is, not SDK. Soumya delivered a great software program. But doesn't mean that people cannot continue that role.
  
• Marc Dillon hasn't been COO for a long while, more of an arbitrary "Head of Software".
  
• Annika was Program Manager (of which we had a few of)
  
• We have had a few Head of Business Development :)

It's more interesting to look at who's left in a tough financial situation to keep the boat afloat; and who didn't get laid off.

It's an insult to all us engineers (and some support functions), dare I say pioneering type of people who aren't laid off, who's been pushing hours, effort, sweat and a lot of tears since the start that we can't continue Jolla/SailfishOS when Jolla/SailfishOS is as much our effort and child as it is that of the founders. Sometimes the best thing founders can do is step aside and let people do what they're good at. In fact, for a very long while, we didn't even have internal marketing, all subcontracted. The power is in the networks around us.

We aren't all teary-eyed when founders leave, because the rest of us still have a mission and a job - but it does hurt us all when the company is in financial trouble, or we are having difficulties delivering our products and we have to scale down the company to survive tough seas and what we've built falling apart. Perhaps we should have scaled down even more longer ago.

Each of us have grown our area of expertise, including kickstarting other areas - and hired, interviewed most other people that are now temporarily laid off. Many of whom really haven't wanted to leave. We've been fighting like mad at every step of the road for Jolla - and why should we stop at slightest taste of failure? Failure makes you stronger.

The thing is - you learn from failure - else all humans would be crawling around on the floor instead of walking. Success has many fathers, failure is an orphan. Would you hire a person with a lot of success, with no failures, or somebody who has gotten even bigger success after a lot of failure?

It's a bad situation, sure, but not the end of the road right now for SailfishOS. How much the Jolla brand is tainted? That's a even bigger question. And how the organisation looks like after this situation and our ability to recruit.

It ain't over till the fat lady sings.