Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

And no more Metro mode on desktop!

MS are trying to play Apple, not realizing that Apple did not force the same UI on their desktop and portable machines. Why? Because they know better.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Metro, in practice could have been great. But in application, it seems half-assed, rushed. A lot of refinements that were originally shown never came to light.

Desktop needs to be desktop. Seeing Windows Server 2012 R2 adopt Metro was probably the stupidest thing I've ever seen as an admin. Most of my time would probably be spent in PowerShell or the admin apps, and those do not need to be Metro.

Apple is doing the complete opposite. They're going from mobile (iOS) to desktop whereas Microsoft is going from desktop to mobile. Funny part, I actually think that's the best way to go - Apple's way that is. But making Metro the default for everything; it just still doesn't seem to work unless you have touch enabled everything.

Give it time. You'll see even more iOS on OS X. Notifications, certain UI cues. Heck, LaunchPad on OS X is the iOS app launcher on OS X.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Just a thought but when you call your potential customers "idiots" ...

Quote Lumiaman "its close to idiot proof like IOS"

You have already lost, just the sheer arrogance in that statement is enough to ensure that at no point will I ever buy, use or recommend a Windows phone.

In fact it is safe to say that I will recommend any and every other possible option ahead of Windows phone at every opportunity.

Windows phone is already a loser in waiting.

rgds

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

A smartphone division that has made losses for every single quarter of the windows phone strategy is not "alive and well"

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

you are too thick to understand that idiot proof devices are the smartest devices as the customer doesnt have to worry about anything malfunctioning and you cant screw up the device, and it works intuitively. Idiot proof is what 99.9% want. the rest go for jolla.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Looks like WP is making some headway in Latin America:

http://www.gsmarena.com/windows_phon...-news-7245.php

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Now comes the hard part: who will be the new leader

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

The very fact that you call them "idiot proof" is proof enough.

rgds

It is fortunate for us that the world is bigger than just you Lumiaman. I for one support a world where people learn to think for themselves.

Nothing wrong with making devices that are useful and straightforward but some people want to change gears by hand, parallel park and learn to read maps.

Go figure not all of us want to sit in front a telly or like having services spoon fed.

Thank you Lumiaman but I choose to continue to stay in the >80% of people that choose to think for themselves.

You are of course welcome to continue using restricted, small minded devices such as Windows phones.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Many people think the following way:

I want a device that works well, types well, has good battery life, good call quality, looks good, feels good, can read big letters.

I DO NOT WANT a device that I need to mod, patch, reboot, re-flash, open X-terminal and write a script so that a god damn email works properly because lazy coders didnt do their job right and made this device so much dependent on me to finish what should have been done by coders. Basically I DO NOT WANT half baked N900 and N9 two very dumb devices because one had to do a lot of moding to make them work right.

SMART device is the one that predicts and knows what the owner wants, DUMB devices is what the Maemo team fed us. That is why they are out of business.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

So why are you still on this forum then?

To do what?

Insult everyone who supports Maemo?

Perhaps you should go and find a home that supports users of Microsoft and Nokia?

As I don't think this is it.

rgds

ps. The N900/Maemo still out competes every other phone for my purposes and I couldn't care less about your purposes or Nokia and Microsoft as they have absolutely nothing to do with this community <--- hint this means you have reached the status of irrelevancy ... well done.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

You remind me of a pvssyfart.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

You are idiot proof in your responses.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Chuckle

I like the way you thinly veiled the characters there to disguise your true meaning.

rgds

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

During the time Elop has been totally wrecking NOKIA's handset business Ranjeev Suri has taken NSN from problem child to profitability. He should be in with a shout.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

99.9% of idiots agree.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I guess for me, that term has no real bad connotation attached to it whatsoever. Being "idiot proof" just means that even the lowest common denominator could use your product.

What I (oddly) do have a negative connotation for - "It just works". That mix of marketing BS and outright lie enrages me like no other.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

All customers are Customers.

Not all Customers have the same requirements.

rgds

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

And not all customers want what you want or think like you. So with that you have to hit an array of wants and needs. I will not dispute what I said, it's my opinion as you have yours. And that's another thing that customers possess.

I was merely talking about one simple thing, the connotation of the aforesaid phrase, "idiot proof" - care to answer exactly why you've chosen to take offense with such a widely used term in most English speaking cultures?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Because it is demeaning and derogatory towards Customers.

rgds

ps.

"idiot proof" defines all the customers as idiots and that all the customers have the same requirements, the lowest common denominator.

It is precisely because Customers have diverse requirements that makes OpenSource so flexible and beautiful.

It is one of my primary reasons for choosing the N900 and Maemo.

Windows phone would seek to take that choice away, therefore it can only serve the "lowest common denominator".

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Says who? I disagree and I've stated exactly why. Care to do the same?

That's your understanding of that phrase, not mine. We're just going to have to see this differently.

And sorry, after so many years of being a programmer, designer, consultant and interactive director; not all folks benefit from open source. I do, you apparently do; however it's not the answer to everyones problems. In fact, it creates new problems in some cases.

Care to answer why many more chose otherwise? In fact, care to speculate why many folks chose Maemo/MeeGo? In the past, it's not been for the very same reasons as you've stated.

I get it. You know your reasons why you've chosen something and you've taken offense to the term "idiot proof" yet you're not the only person that can think otherwise. You've never said that - I don't think you'll commit to anything as definite as that - but in the end, many people have many different requirements and needs. Your reasoning is quite far from my reasoning. I chose open source for very different reasons than yours. Same for Maemo too. Very different reasons.

Now you sound like Stallman here and that's a very good thing. The lack of choice is a limiting factor that this closed source software imposes upon people.

Thinking that your way is the only way is equally imposing. I'm out to avoid both in the future.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Don't confuse "idiot proof" with "have your cake and eat it too." The Lumia 800 and the n9 look almost indistinguishable, but one's a phone and the other is a computer with phone capabilities, respectively.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I was also thinking of the same thing. He also gave the best and sharpest presentation of his business line in the stockholders meeting.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

This kind of Nokia leadership needs to be up front and center so their stock price(s) will gradually get to where it should be.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Care to do the same?

I thought I just did, see above.

That's your understanding of that phrase ...

Perhaps you are challenged by two words?

Care to answer why many more chose otherwise?

er ... because they want to?

Thinking that your way is the only way ...

I am not sure I stated anything of the sort ... but you have missunderstood me on this point before.

rgds

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Honestly, I don't think we were in the same league of clarity.

And you have yours.

Apparently you're offended by those two words whereas I'm not. Again, we differ. Nothing more needs to be said than just that.

Good try. I'll talk with others that can be more specific.

Thanks for the conversation. It was... enlightening.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

What do you use on a daily basis?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

So is iphone. Much better computer than N9. Actually N9 was a special child, with special needs, all pretty but nowhere to go.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

erm... no. Hell no.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

For the record, I don't have any negative associations with the phrase "idiot proof" either. It means, "designed in such a way that a clueless user can't break it". Note this is not the same as, "designed for clueless users".

On phone vs. computer. I was forced to use a spare Android phone for two weeks while I was dealing with certain issues on my N900. Both devices have a hardware keyboard and the same screen size and resolution, yet the difference was quite striking. The N900 is clearly a computer with a by-the-way phone functionality while Android is clearly a phone that by the way can also run "apps".

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Ha ha ha ha

There's that humour again.


Android of course. If you really want a smartphone you currently have to choose between Android and BB10. I might treat myself to a Z10 too now the price has crashed (now < £180 from Amazon UK!).

I've also been toying with the idea of getting a Nexus 4 so I can put MultiROM on it and have one phone with Android, Ubuntu Touch and Firefox OS on it. Anyone tried that?

@gerbick
Do you know if the Z10 offers the ability to directly run QML scripts using QML Scene?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

You know what? I've never even checked. I somehow doubt it due to how they've implemented QML (as I've taken it to be so far) but I'm just not knowledgable enough to answer this fully. Sorry about that.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

You can get z10 for $270 in US....tells you how much value it holds

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

You could argue it is a bargain at that prize :)

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Not selling well here..a salesman said that people want a "button"...tells you how much iphone imprinted people

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Has nothing to do with it.

I've seen a lot of potential in Android, none which was utilized.
Such as the performance and intuitiveness of MIUI/Custom ROMs.
The features packed into it.
The thin, and high-end of certain devices.
And the design and feel of other devices.

Now here's the kicker.... there's no device that brings these together.
They all compromise, where a compromise is unnecessary.

Imagine if Nokia had decided to "go Android" ?
They could've built the first button-less device like the N9.
Bring forth the OtherHalf concept (not sure if this was an ex-nokia idea).
Nail the qwerty phones, and "weird phones" like the Kyocera Echo and NOTE series.
Then conquer the low-end/poor demographics.
Possibly built the Frontal Dual Loudspeaker concept before HTC One.
Made kickstands, useful ones.
Perhaps replaceable batteries on top of this too?

Anyways, the sky is the limit.
They had the resources and the ability to do so (if history's shown anything).

And doing so.... they could've turned around and still supported WP.
And at the end of the day... they PROBABLY wouldn't have lost as much value doing so.
In fact, they could've become a major contender as long as they maintained the mindshare of people.

Now what are they?
Not even a "third racer". After Samsung and Apple, people think about HTC, LG and maybe SONY. Motorola is also a contender.

So not only did Nokia shoot themselves in the foot... they decided to take a seat instead of limping while the zombies pursued them. I would've preferred Nokia get WP and become a successful third contender... but WP is so inferior to the other offerings in terms of customizability, features and support that its pretty funny.

Part of this is Nokia's fault. Part of this is MS's fault.
At the end, its the consumers who suffered.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Kangal gets it. Nokia could have created a GNU/Linux-based Galaxy Note 3 four years ago. And with a kick-a*s kickstand to boot.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

@Gerbick

Sorry you are right, let me "Gerbick Proof" this for you.

From Gerbick, Quote:"Care to do the same?"

My Response "I thought I just did, see above." ... 3

From Gerbick, Quote:"That's your understanding of that phrase ..."

My Response "Perhaps you are challenged by two words?" ... 1

From Gerbick, Quote:"Care to answer why many more chose otherwise?"

My Response "er ... because they want to?" ... 2

From Gerbick, Quote:"Thinking that your way is the only way ..."

My Response "I am not sure I stated anything of the sort ... but you have missunderstood me on this point before."

rgds

1: At no point have I stated that I was offended by these words.

2. The very definition of freedom of choice.

3. (ref #2299) Originally Posted by uTMY "Because it is demeaning and derogatory towards Customers."

I am not sure what else you are expecting me to add to each of these?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

@Daperl

Kangal gets it with one small correction.

Only some Customers suffered, the rest switched to Android.

rgds

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I'm not really sure what your point is, but I switched to Android and I'm suffering for it.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I have to say I disagree with @Kangal et al, Android would not have been the golden choice for Nokia. I go so far as even argue that WP was better than Android for Nokia... ( damn I never thought I would realy say something like this... but there you go :( )

The reason; Android is not a good OS, it is so horribly resource hungry abomination it needs more CPU power & memory than my desktop machine to run acceptably.

It is just not a good choice. WP is bad and ugly, Android is just plain bad.

They had the correct choice in their paws and thy let it slip away... all for some abstract ecosystemig/appcentric reasons. :sigh: