Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

@Daperl

My point was that out of the remaining choices WP or Android.

Android is by far the lesser of two evils.

So those Customers that chose Android suffered less.

:-)

rgds

ps. The assumption there is of course anyone coming from a Symbian or Maemo/Meego background wouldn't look twice at Apple/iOS.

:-)

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

+1,000,000... The nonsense I have to waste my time on Android really is painful despite it being my daily device for a long time now...

P.S. Before Lumiaman or other fanatics enter, NO other OS out there would make my suffering lesser except for maybe Sailfish so don't even think about asking me to try iOS, WP etc when I have all those devices lying around my house collecting dust ;)

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I'm not expecting anything more.

Demeaning and derogatory carry a very negative connotation and a rather damaging denotation. The level of disregard that those two terms carry for the consumer in your usage shows a level of disdain that's against the consumer in a rather offensive manner.

You follow? Regardless, there's no lack of points made.

Your take of "idiot proof" and my take are vastly different. Where we also differ, our thoughts of how open source affects the layman. We've both benefitted directly whereas the layman has benefited indirectly (web, mobile, embedded systems) but they're none the wise about open source in their daily operations.

To continue that discussion with our different vantage points would be just a waste of time. I just think the discussion was invariably going to be circular and I just don't have the time to waste (yours or mine).

Done (:Q!)

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

What kind of suffering are we talking about? Did you acquire phone transmitted diseases?

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

iPox

10 chars

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I hear that jPOX is even worse

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

For idiots it's "terminal," so consider yourself warned.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

That is why I wear iphone, no risk for ipox, jpox and tpox

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

this... made me lol.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

There's nothin' like geek humor, baby! Find more here:

http://seenonslash.com/taxonomy/term/3

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

What giant will do a Nokia next?

1. Google
X. Microsoft
2. Apple

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I knew you were terminal and idiot proof. Geek humor is like geek sex, its only good when its free. Linux lovers unite.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

http://www.commonwealthcrossfit.com/...humbs_down.jpg

Not... a good comeback. 1/10

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Most likely none of them.
But if you were to rate their current condition then:

MS < Apple < Google.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Then what are the options? Doubtful it'll be Jolla. So name the next option.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Why does there have to be a next option?

In most cases IT reaches a point at which it is good enough.

cost/reward balance shifts.

The trick is to identify the next disruptive technology.

Smartphones (iPhone) was clearly disruptive to the traditional desktop use cases for say joe public and to a lesser degree tablets.

Not so much for niche power uses, say cad, development etc.

All the others are minor improvements or changes of focus to the original "smartphone" ideas.

Is Jolla disruptive? too early to say, probbaly not in its current configuration, you know my thoughts already on what could be.

rgds

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

If not Google Android, Microsoft Windows Phone (or Windows RT) or Apple iOS, then what options are there? Rolling your own is an option; one that I'd rather see more people do. But that does take time and resources (read: lots of money and developers)

Agree.

Agree.

Agree.

Agree, but would have to append "not yet".

I'm waiting to see if they actually use MeeGo as the framework that it honestly could have been for Nokia. The aforesaid disruption is overdue for yet another disruption - tech, user demands and time (market shift or average time between disruptions given how fast tech moves) usually dictates that. But if anything, I have no clue on what's next, what's disruptive, or what Nokia could/should/may do.

Speculation might prove enlightening.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

@Gerb

Agreed on all points.

Disruption is usually preceded by a growing swell which creates a sea change.

Windows for Workgroups did this to Novell Netware for instance.

rgds

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

bit like a volcano bubbling up from below the incumbent.

rgds

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Atleast disruptive for developers.

IMHO both XCode+IOSSDK and AndroidSDK+HELLclipse is bloated compared to QML+Silica and QtCreator.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Bloated maybe.... but is it as easy to develop?
In a developers head what they probably think is higher priority is
-Getting the App to work,
-Getting it out there for more people (not necessarily more devices),
-Getting it out quick.

Then they think about how their App looks.
And after all those, they think about its performance.

Despite my inherit bias, I gotta tip my hat to iOS and Android for maturing to the states they are.

Our communities advantages seem to fade just a little every day, a bit like how the far superior Dreamcast was overtaken by the likes of SONY, Nintendo and later MS.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Dreamcast is by far the best console ever made imo.... So much love for it

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

How to publish your iOS app:

1. Create an apple account (involves paying $99 and faxing(!) a form to apple, then speaking on the phone with them if you are in an unsupported country)

2. https://developer.apple.com/library/...12582-CH24-SW1

3. https://developer.apple.com/library/...12582-CH28-SW1

4. https://developer.apple.com/library/...012582-CH8-SW1

5. https://developer.apple.com/library/...012582-CH9-SW1

See the sheer length of those pages, and don't forget that you need to open almost every drop-down in them, for just a simple app.

No, it's not easy to develop on iOS.

Compare that with Downloading QtCreator and just using a two step wizard to publish to extras-devel for the N900.

Regarding Android vs WP, I would choose WP over android, as Google's stated mission is to know as much as possible about you, not that MS's intentions are good but having 80% of the market, whoever you are is by itself dangerous.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

What about 2007 ?
Symbian controls 98% marketshare. Nokia just by itself controls 51%.

"Chump change" compared to Android's *upto* 82% figure, and Samsung's 26% marketshare.

Just because something is "too" popular doesn't make that a disadvantage.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

It does. That's why anti-monopoly laws are in place.

edit: And symbian's 98% was chump change, as we were talking about smartphones, which were much less % of total phones. Now they are more than 50%, android is going for world domination™, symbian was far from it.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Actually I sat down with both XCode and HELLClipse last week because I was the only at work who had some time over to fix some issues with an app we done for Android and IOS.

And I seriously can say that "little fix" I made took around two days. Yes I know the ordinary people probadly would fix the issues faster. But XCode seems to be a ****ing mess and when talk about AndroidSDK/Eclipse I can say I have worked with Heclipse on lowend embedded too and it always end with that I use ordinary makefiles and arm-gdb/gcc/kateeditor because Hellclipse NEVER works as expected and often ****s up things.

And Eclipse+AndroidSDK crashed SEVERAL times last week in Linux at work. Thats definitivly not okey.

I am sure that app could be fully redone in a week in QtCreator/QML but then again the better often not win because the big coorperations brainwash people how GOOD Android/IOS is for endusers...

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

What's being ignored though, the lack of quality control on the Qt apps that have come out. Some of them just plain should have never come out. Shoddy UI, lack of error capturing, severe lack of understanding on how to manage memory leaks... I get and love the Qt framework, it's easy and accessible to a lot of people.

But not all people that can code should code apps. And even more should never attempt UI/UX. It's deplorable and unusable in too many cases.

Not taking up for any mobile OS and/or development workflow here. But in all instances, I can point to some shitty half-baked apps.

And if any of you bring up fart apps, I'll murder a puppy on pay-per-view. That's not what I am talking about.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Kind of the definition of a fart app.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

One puppy.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I don't think that making the actual process of creating helloWorld and submitting it to the store tedious is a sane way of keeping people who shouldn't code away though. And not that ObjC is much better in memory management. Java at least has a gc.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

There's too many "Hello World" apps and not enough thought out apps out there. Too many "me too" apps that do the same thing and some things need to be filtered.

Sorry, I get the gist of what you're saying; however I have to point out that each and every ecosystem (shudder) has crap apps that really makes me woefully sick whenever I come across them.

Tedious or not, if it's for a client, you get paid for it. If it's for fun, then it's up to you if it's worth it. If it's your living, then you're used to it. And if you want to be taken serious, create an app that's as functional to many more people than just yourself or your limited scope would allow.

That's what is missing in a lot of these crap apps on MeeGo, Maemo, WP, Android and iOS. I hope to goodness (or the equally opposite evil) that crap apps don't find their way onto Jolla.

Study the UI, make it close to as native as the other apps, don't force your thought patterns on users and don't try to re-invent the wheel. Make good apps that look great, are useful and work great. And learn how to take criticism (good and bad and useless) as an app writer.

Meh, I'm not here to discuss what's good and bad to be honest. The tedious processes that Apple have in place annoy the ever-living **** out of me too. But they also have a detailed QA process that I admire and wish were in place for Android and WP. I shudder to think what's in store - I'll probably install just as few apps on a Jolla phone as I did on my N9.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

Then comes the question if you want a crap app or no app at all. The maemo way of things was cool IMO. You can have extras (ok I know the community QA never worked very well, but it would if maemo lived on - see debian) if you want the highest quality apps, and you could delve into devel if you absolutely need something and you could live with a bug or two, or bad interface.

I for one I am extremely happy we have xchat and gnumeric, even if they aren't totally native and need a stylus, because they are fully functional. Other apps might be finger friendly and pretty, but seeing "find&replace" making headlines as a new feature of Google Drive for android in 2013 is just sad.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

I'd sometimes choose no app at all. Especially when the community kowtows to the developer that resists any assistance because his logic, therefore UI/UX is also "perfect". It happens and I hate it when it does.

Agree. But there were some **** apps that could have been made 100% better if only folks were willing to work alongside others. Less ego, more cooperation. Don't ask for specifics, I'll give none. I just know it happened/existed and it really bothered me.

Shoddy control and quality assurance, shoddy apps - why live with that imperfect system when honestly it's merely ego that's in the way of progress. Not saying that the other way (walled garden) is better - that's ego that's controlling the system. Meritocracy sans ego is the way.

Some apps will have limited UI, that's fine. But having no way for proper QA/QC to limit some of the utter crap; that's my problem as well.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

May I play the devil's advocate? :P

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_by_committee

Seriously though, it's impossible to incorporate everybody's opinion, especially since everyone is a self-proclaimed expert on user interface, and very hard to filter what is best and still keep consistency. Thus I understand those developers who shut all input off.

User facing decisions on a project worked by a team (or procured by a customer) require more than just good taste and usability understanding. It needs social skills and a way to explain what's on your mind with clear words and arguments. And that's not something you can always do. Sometimes I feel like a painter who is being asked why is that brushstroke there.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

*snicker*

You know, I look at the NOK long term stock price, and I can't help but to read the graph with a little bit of humor.

When Elop left Nokia, the stock price went from liek $2 to $8. Clearly that's because a phone giant with no phones to sell is four times better than one where Elop is in charge. ;)


Edit: Well, at least it doubled. The two dollar low was honestly a year back before that.

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

How's that stock looking these days? I hear Microsoft is selling the last remnants of what it bought from Nokia. Well, there goes the final remnants of Nokia's old phone business after Stephen Elop performed an expert job of driving that company into the ground for Microsoft (his old employer) to buy it up cheap, only to eventually figure out he did far too good a job of devaluing it right into the ground. I dub this the final act of what I like to call the "Elop Flop."

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

$NOK is 5.36 right now. And let's be honest, the feature phone business was not a good revenue for income for Microsoft - who's stock has been jumping by leaps and bounds as of late.

Elop did what Ballmer wanted; not what Nadella needs for his future view of Microsoft.

And with a global presence of less than 1%, they've now become as forgotten as BlackBerry. Microsoft has already written off $7.2 Billion around the Nokia purchase.

It just hit me... holy crap, a danramos sighting...

Re: Let's talk Nokia stock. Really.
 

OMG! Who wake up this thread again