Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

LXDE FTW.

10 chars

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Both sucks!

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Two words: No multitasking.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

nonono vim is better than emacs :)

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

And there was me thinking that if we could all get behind a pile of smartwatch like systemd, we'd all be able to work together.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

You're all totally right. It's been fantastic. Is fantastic. That's why it is and continues to be such a unparalleled success story, right? The level of delusion is still brimming over.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

There are a lot of people which love Sailfish and their Jolla. So obviously Jolla has done a lot of things right. Of course there are things which every individual would do different. But if you be honest to yourself, you don't know if that really have brought more success.

And if you think even further, weren't there a lot of brilliant products in the past which weren't successful? And weren't there a lot of products which were not really good and succeeded anyway?

And no there is often no obvious cause for a flop, like bad marketing, bad design or things like that. Often the only explanation was and is, that the market isn't ready for a product like this.

On the other hand there are a lot products which only succeeded because there was a huge company in the background, like the iPhone or Goggle Chrome:

The iPhone succeeded because it delivered something new, a fresh design and there was a well known and popular brand behind. The first iPhone itself was rubbish when it hit the market and there were a lot phones which were MUCH better.

Chrome is still rubbish (yes I know it is fast - but what else). Nobody wanted to have it at the beginning. Chrome only succeeded because Google decided after the very poor start to spread it like a virus. You downloaded a software and installed with it the unwanted package of Chrome and set it as the the main browser. Of course you always had the choice to opt out. But I still would call such a behaviour as a drive-by-infection. Which was in plain terms only possible with A LOT of money.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

I am not an advocator of Chrome; but i'd say they were the first ones to push "proper" javascript debugging.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

... But you will agree, that can't be the reason, why Chrome is successful. Probably 90% of it's users don't even know what javascript is. :p

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Yup. You don't become successful in this industry by giving control to users or respecting their privacy. You do it by making your stuff pretty, making it easy for people to use your stuff, or getting away with making it hard not to.

The best Sailfish can hope for here is a power user niche, but they haven't been very successful in targeting that. They're split between android fans in denial about what google has become, die-hard open sourcers who are throwing themselves behind ubuntu and blackberry hackers.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

You need to understand that there are not much people who like SailfishOS compared to the mobile market and the % of people using it :)

As well you need to understand that a lot of those who does like Jolla, like it because of Qt, maemo, meego, mer and even TMO. As well as PR of FOSS.

let's say if last 5 cars you owned were Honda, most likely you would want to buy new Honda even if it's not the best option available.
(See those jokes about Gnome vs KDE? The root of this holywar is not only coz of current state of them, but it starts with the first version of them and two camps of supporters, even though now they are not even close to what they were (DEs))

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

I disagree with you in one part:

You have to see that a quite high percentage of the users who ever used a Jolla like Sailfish OS. You can't count users which never used Sailfish OS. And you can't count people who have never heard of Jolla - People which just go in the next shop and buy what the the shop assistant tell them is the best for their needs.

There are by the way a lot of my friends who tried it. All of them liked it, but none of them bought a Jolla phone. Why? Well there are multiple reasons. Most of them asked just for the specs of the phone and were disappointed. They agreed that my phone runs pretty smooth (and even better than some of theirs), but nevertheless there was the longing for higher specs and a better resolution (some of them already need reading glasses and wouldn't have recognized any difference between a full HD display and the Jolla screen). And then there are the people who just buy what all their friends buy. And unfortunately I am not one of their ideals, I'm the crazy guy without facebook and whatsapp....

So looking at my friends, Jolla should have offered a high end device. Because most of them just want to show off with their mobiles. (Not very nice friends in this respect :o)

On the other hand if they would have sold their High-end device for 900 € there would have been many people which simply couldn't afford it.

I agree with you that the most people out there act like you discribed:

if they had in the past always an Android Phone and weren't really disappointed they will again buy Android phone's in the future. It doesn't really matter if there is a better system. :(

But when you don't see any chance to break through this pattern, than any other OS is doomed and we have to accept, that Android is the Windows in the mobile world.

Anyway I for myself think their is a chance. But you need a huge power of endurance. This isn't something which you can reach in a short run.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

You are probably right: the biggest problem for Jolla would be to get out of this tiny niche. IMHO the OS is almost ready for a broad market. So what is lacking is partners that sell devices with Sailfish OS.

I regard the Jolla Phone a demonstrator. Jolla can't do it all (software and devices) alone - even Blackberry could not, although they at least had pretty deep pockets.

Sailfish OS could become fashionable. It needs some luck, though.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

There is huge difference between liking by using 5 minutes and daily usage.
And as a lot of people who did not like Sailfish just do not talk about it doesn't mean everyone like it. You probably see what you want to see. There are enough posts here ppl selling Jolla, and on TJC a lot of complaining, same as on twitter. But again as you are not interested in it, you do not see it. Basically your statistics is wrong. Sorry for that.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

There is no OS that pleases everybody in all it's aspects. No matter the device/OS/software/whatever, there are complaints and there are people selling them for various reasons. It seems again that every argument goes as long as it "proves" nobody can genuinely like Sailfish OS... :)

But don't worry. It may be over soon, so you don't have to suffer anymore with it.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

I've never made a statistic. So I don't deserve your sympathy.
If you have seen a statistic of me on TMO, you've just seen what you wanted to see. I'm sorry for that.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Well I'm selfish and hope he has to suffer for a while longer... :D

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

I only suffer because I care about you and how you hurt yourself on purpose again and again and even find the reason to explain why it is good for you. I think it's called an addiction. As for me I lost my 400 euros 3 years ago and I will not get them back, simple as that.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Guys freeze... What comes first? Christmas or Jolla tablet info!

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Guys ..
I know I have guffaw-ed a few times here concerning some good lines and all.
and personally it's a mixed bag for me...the Jolla ..that is..since I wouldn't have minded one...but the support and sales were (naturally due to the horrid climate of control and nightmare of dealing with and..) in the North American market.
And so was pretty much shut out of the fun.
On the same token I am glad I didn't have to go through the horror stories some of you have....
and I do understand it is difficult....
especially for a new endeavour ...
to please and accommodate everyone.

As far as all that goes...

I do truly hope that no matter what...
the os's and developments in question ..
Sailfish, Nemo...and Mer...
continue and flourish..
no matter the physic downfalls.
Disembodied and able to function on other hardware is inevitably more cost efficient , has a higher chance of longevity, and has a better chance of survival than trying to "do it all" like so many much larger companies have learned ...just is too much.

And lastly...
past all the (well justified or not) complaints of many...

I know it has been mentioned...

but at this time I would like to extend my most heartfelt to the employees who have been laid off and those who worked or are STILL working for little or no pay ...
It bloody well breaks my heart to see this crap happening at all...
let alone before Christmas.
Running through my mind right at this moment comparably is a tune from a great (for a long time) unknown who sang of losing his job 2 weeks before Christmas ...(and in fact did by the grimmest of chance...lose his gig with the record label ...2 weeks before Christmas...)
And it is about as wrenching as all this makes me feel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6zm7b9xY3I

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

I absolutly second that, and find it quite strange that people here complain about the loss of 400€ three years ago. And even worse some people claim that other people should be sacked.
Well I hope that there will never be the day where somebody asks your boss for firing you. :o

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

There is no winners in this mess. While I like the story of sugerMan I prefer this song right now: https://youtu.be/K0HwHUtB6cM

Youtubeparty while waiting for info, tablet, jolla, Christmas or other stuff.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Very thoughtful commentary endsormeans. But, you know, there are far worse things that can happen to you than losing your job during the holiday season...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzV9DIL_vrM

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Is there evidence for this?

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Soon. will be released when ready. At least I hope jolla will give news as soon as possible, Good or bad...just no disappear or hire people in silence.

Personally I don't believe that they didn't know about this issue until right after slush. I'm pretty sure they have known for a while. No evidence. Marc knew and left, Italian guy stopped his Twitter long ago and left.

But I hope jolla can pull a rabbit from the hat...

One thing that I found interesting is many articles said jolla pull half of staff. Then about 100-50 ppl should be left working with the tablet?

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

You (and others) should really try using some different products. You have absolutely no idea just how far behind in features, functionality and performance Sailfish is, and the gap grows ever wider.

The reason Jolla have not succeeded is due to; calamitously bad judgement and management at every turn; a product that despite 4 years of development and a very solid base to work from is miles behind the competition and arguably inferior to both of its immediate forebears even 2 years after release; total lack of engagement with developers or any effort to provide them with a desirable or revenue generating platform and alienating almost the entire Maemo / Meego userbase & community with breathtaking speed; appalling communication and PR; a ridiculously flawed development process; a combination of arrogance and self pity.

They could have succeeded on their own merits, but they didn't. They absolutely did not fail because they were too small. They failed because they failed. That they failed so utterly - despite initially a great deal of interest and good will in the industry - is perhaps their greatest achievement.

If they were as good as you and other seem to think and it was just a question of resources, you'd have seen them taken over or fully funded long ago, with more than 1 partner (now likely gone) in 4 years. That none of that happened is testament to what I just stated.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

If jolla manage somehow deliver the tablets, manage to pay lastu I wouldn't consider it a failure. Then they would have successfully delivered two devices, which was what they said they would do.

Then the scamness would be Low or even non existing.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Indeed. To me this would indicate a great success, especially with all the challenges they had to overcome. I would think that future investors would be quite impressed with their follow through and commitment to customers.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

You know... I'd normally say the same thing but there's a huge difference. Without Android Support, Sailfish isn't spying on me like Google Android or Apple iOS. Yes... there's a huge app gap on Jolla; but my privacy is important to me as well.

The features a lot of people (not saying you) tend to fall into are centered around the perceived app gap for the most part. The rest, it's items that are truly missing - copy/paste in a few areas, among other standard features.

I won't argue management and other areas you've identified simply because I disagree. Lack of third party support is an issue. So would be lack of consistent PR, consolidating the effort to pull the community together behind their product and cover the app gaps, as well as many other things... management is perhaps at fault, but that's just a skewed look at an entire company.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

If you shoot yourself in leg and finish the run — it's not success.
Delivering what is promised is not a benefit, but requirement

Edit:
As of the songs here — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJIqnXTqg8I

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

If your expectations were this high, then it's no wonder you're so violently disappointed. Large corporations with huge amounts of resources haven't managed to get as far as Jolla have in their limited time - and they weren't allowed to take as much of Meego as you seem to think they started with. No-one here is claiming that it's perfect, and certainly not as polished and complete as the competition. It's never going to take over - the best we can hope for is a niche where people who want to tinker with their mobile devices can do so, and create things they couldn't dream of on larger platforms. They're not even there yet, but they're taking steps in the right direction, and I hope they continue to do so in spite of the arrogant, entitled opinions like this getting shouted from the rooftops. Because if people like you were in charge, nothing would ever change.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Just a few hours to december...the month where restructuring, new round of investments, lions share of tablet shipments shall take place. What a glorious month!

Could we get some good news already tomorrow...yes, no, maybe

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Dave666 ur funny :rolleyes:

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Was it December 2015 ?

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

I completely agree with you. Also one of the best summaries I've read so far was from tbr on sailfish-devel:
https://lists.sailfishos.org/piperma...er/006776.html

Anyway, whatever would be said, then a lot of people here at TMO will stay unconvinced, forever dreaming about the alternative history and "what if... " blaming the market, corporations, hardware manufacturers, NSA etc. and of course "dumb" users that pick up other OSes instead of their unlike, beloved, best one. Let's agree there is some kind of (similar to religious) cult around Maemo, Meego and Sailfish. The story is the same every time, a group of people, with limited resources despite all odds and giants (earlier Symbian, now Android and iOS) is doing a really interesting mobile Linux OS. What is intriguing though every time story includes same old mistakes like bad business/management decisions, delays, half-open sourcing, overpriced hardware (compared to competition specs) and many other similar elements that summed up give the same result in the end - failure that is. Despite that, any new attempt is welcomed with big enthusiasm, there's always a promise that old errors won't be repeated even though the faces behind those new projects are quite familiar to the previous ones. Some of those people through the time even earned a status of idols/saints. Whatever they say is a pure and unquestionable truth (at least to the most devoted cult followers). But the world outside keeps running away and the distance is bigger with every attempt.

Fortunately, now there are other mobile Linux OS attempts with many fresh faces like for example Ubuntu Touch and Tizen. They seem to be more promising and don't have the ex-Nokians heavy baggage. There are some noteworthy points about those alternatives. Ubuntu Touch - convergence and support of different type of technologies behind apps (Qt, HTML5 or even good old GTK+). Tizen - power efficient, successful on various types of devices (smartwatches, TVs, ...) and with smartphone sales recently getting close to those of Windows Phone (3rd OS in global market share). So no reasons to worry, in contrast to what some people say, Sailfish OS is not the only and last true mobile GNU/Linux attempt, others are worth attention and doing pretty well, just let go of prejudices and old cults - be open to change.

PS. Does the tablet have open bootloader? I remember it was hot topic for some of the people when crowdfunding campaign started.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Of course you would. But you want them to disappear. Once you get your wish, who would you target?

Okay "smart" user... name a viable option that's as complete as the aforementioned options.

You're discounting that people actually want an option that isn't Android or iOS. I was never the Symbian fan, so I wanted an option and got it in Maemo. Lesser known options that are cultivated by a very exclusive group never will catch on. You speak about options as if it's a bad thing... but never really offer up any.

Your rhetoric is utterly boring. It's the same message each and every time: "I hate <insert name> personally, I want <insert product> to fail and I'll talk badly about those things in hopes that it fails without ever offering up one viable solution or option..." ad-mother****ing-nauseum.

Give it a break.

For the record, yes it does. There, consider yourself enlightened. Now, as to why you'd even care... it counters your continuous rants. Save your attention, just stop caring.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Yes that was the official plan. Jollas internal plan was more add funds to OS development and ignore the tablet, stretch goals and delivery dates.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

While he was discussing on topic about the problems and his opinion — all you can do is to answer "you are...", "you...".
Next thing would be probably pointing fingers and throwing stones, right?

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

I actually do use other products too (Android mostly). But still prefer Sailfish because of ease of use and work flow.

Other part of your rant just underlines my previous take on lessons learned from this endeavour: never try without backing of big money. Never rely on communities. And absolutely never think such thing as "good will" exists. It's really as simple as that.

Re: The Future of Jolla's Tablet
 

Well I use an Android phone on job. A Galaxy S4 mini. And I can tell you there is indeed a huge performance gap between my two phones. But it isn't the way you told me. My Jolla is by far less laggy than my business phone. And by the way I have to reboot the S4 mini every two days, just to be on the safe side for getting my mails.

And features? Well we use egroupware here and let me tell you, You can't imagine but we need a third party app to sync our phones with caldav. And no, we have some guys which got better phones than me, with an actual OS. Still we need a third party app.

Apps? Yes you are completely right. There are millions for Android and just a few for Sailfish. But isn't that our job? And to be honest if you break down all the apps to really useful apps and don't count all the apps which are doubled. The gap is a little bit smaller than it seemed on the first view.

And than there is Tizen. Which some of you guys are always referring to. Hmm just have a look:
Tizen started on April 2012 - first public Version - development started obviously before.
For the third quarter of 2014 there was a first phone (Z SM-Z910F) announced and it was surprise surprise CANCELLED. :eek:
They also announced another Tizen Phone the Z1 for 10.12.2014 well funny enough it was postponed. ...And hit the market 2 month later than announced. And we don't speak here from a MULTI MILLION MEGA PLAYER - of course not. Samsung is a very small and limited Company. :p

Ahhh and how many apps are there for Tizen? :confused:

So where are all the Alternatives which are light years far away???

• Apple? - Yes if you like a walled garden.
• Windows mobile? Well a really good OS in aspects of performance...but well it's somehow limited.
• Ubuntu phone? Maybe in the future.
• plasma mobile? Yes, this one is a really big hope for me, if Sailfish fails. But at the moment far away to be ready.