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maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)
-   General (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=7)
-   -   Closed Source Packages in Maemo (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31967)

korbé 2009-09-22 17:36
Re: Closed Source Packages in Maemo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Architengi (Post 331645)
>>> Korbe wrote:
>>> It's possible to make money with completely free (as free beer) and FOSS. (See Red Hat, Linalis, etc...).

I did not hear ever about Linalis, I heard of RedHat but not that much in the last years, but I hear all the time about iPhone OSX and how nice and easy to use it is. And the same with Mac OSX for computers. Which Mac OSX system is not even at binaries let be installed on other x86 systems than Apple's. Smart, huh?
Popular != the best
Mediated == popular

korbé 2009-09-22 18:05
Re: Closed Source Packages in Maemo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Architengi (Post 331638)
I just don't want all my work to be open and free and to live from services (technical support or customizations), just because there is not the same money from that, so in the end I will have to look for a job.

All the developers that make their source code public will take the job and the bread from the hand of other developers.
For example: If Office is free, the developers of Quick Office, WordPerfect, even the MS Office will have to find another job.

For humanity's progress I love Open Source, like I would love no patents. But in todays world even the human genes (made by nature) are patented.
Now, the question is, the companies that researched and found that gene usage, can they get the money back from all that investment in research? The same with the code, if it is not closed and everybody has access to its source, will be the same interest for the companies to produce that code?
In computing, the majority of revenues come from:
- Services.
- Sale of hardware.
- Some custom features/sofwares developed for companys.

The revenues are sufficient for profitable company and pay everybody. (including developers)

If a company relies solely on a community to develop its Free Software, she controls nothing. The company must hire developers and rely on the community to make more.

In addition, each company that uses free software can modify it to suit his needs: he must therefore developers.

So no, the Free Software does not reduce the number of places of work for developers. It's creates.

ysss 2009-09-22 18:26
Re: Closed Source Packages in Maemo
 
@korbe: some numbers to backup your claim, please?
it'd be a shame if y'all are wasting all this time and effort to discuss false assumptions of mythical proportions ;)

korbé 2009-09-22 18:32
Re: Closed Source Packages in Maemo
 
Numbers on what?

Stskeeps 2009-09-22 19:00
Re: Closed Source Packages in Maemo
 
So, if Maemo from top to bottom was actually fully open source, what would you actually do with it?

This thought is actually fairly reasonable, let me just list items that were OSS'ed that pretty much have tumbleweed surrounding it instead of interested developers contributing and developing and using it - some of them that people actually almost begged to get OSS'ed: WiFi driver (stlc45xx), DSME, alarm framework - and opened frameworks like hildon input method and other examples..

How about instead of going about demanding that everything should be 100% libre that we go and set up an organisation and distribution with what we actually do have OSS, that is capable of giving proper contributions back and actually valuing and using open sourced components when they do come instead of having the source gathering dust somewhere?

EDIT: oh, wait - we -are- working on that.

korbé 2009-09-22 19:12
Re: Closed Source Packages in Maemo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stskeeps (Post 331706)
So, if Maemo from top to bottom was actually fully open source, what would you actually do with it?

This thought is actually fairly reasonable, let me just list items that were OSS'ed that pretty much have tumbleweed surrounding it instead of interested developers contributing and developing and using it - some of them that people actually almost begged to get OSS'ed: WiFi driver (stlc45xx), DSME, alarm framework - and opened frameworks like hildon input method and other examples..

How about instead of going about demanding that everything should be 100% libre that we go and set up an organisation and distribution with what we actually do have OSS, that is capable of giving proper contributions back and actually valuing and using open sourced components when they do come instead of having the source gathering dust somewhere?

EDIT: oh, wait - we -are- working on that.
If Maemo is 100% Free, I can have 100% confidence in him.

And yes, FOSS is not only technical advantages.

But from a technical standpoint, there are advantages to having a 100% FOOS:
- I can work to resolve any bug. Whether a bug that I found or a bug found by a user.
- If I have an idea of new functionality, hop I can develop it, test it. And if it is quality and what I write is good, I can distribute this improvement to the official team.

lardman 2009-09-22 19:25
Re: Closed Source Packages in Maemo
 
Quote:
But from a technical standpoint, there are advantages to having a 100% FOOS:
- I can work to resolve any bug. Whether a bug that I found or a bug found by a user.
- If I have an idea of new functionality, hop I can develop it, test it. And if it is quality and what I write is good, I can distribute this improvement to the official team.
Which closed source components require this attention from you? I.e. bugs you've spotted and are looking to fix?

SD69 2009-09-22 19:49
Re: Closed Source Packages in Maemo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lardman (Post 331713)
Which closed source components require this attention from you? I.e. bugs you've spotted and are looking to fix?
My understanding (correct if I am wrong) is that plenty of bugs have been identified and reported in Diablo and will not be fixed by Nokia and cannot be fixed by the community because of the parts in Diablo that are closed. I understand (even if Korbe doesn't like it) why Nokia doesn't completely open source Fremantle. But here is a question for us to ponder:

How do we know that the bugs and "fixed in Fremantle" situation that occurred with Diablo and the n8x0 NITs won't be repeated with Fremantle and the N900?

Thesandlord 2009-09-22 20:03
Re: Closed Source Packages in Maemo
 
Umm, is there a more open source phone out there?

No?

OpenMoko?

Ok.... what is the argument again? Oh, that Nokia is not Good Enough because it is not 100% FOSS. I mean, most of the OS is open source. And why can you not "trust" it if it is not open source? Is it going to eat you or something? Don't tell me that you are going to read and comprehend every single line of code in Maemo if it was FOSS. Would it be nice, yes it would. Would it be practical, probably not. Nokia has done a lot for open source.

Stskeeps 2009-09-22 20:10
Re: Closed Source Packages in Maemo
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SD69 (Post 331721)
How do we know that the bugs and "fixed in Fremantle" situation that occurred with Diablo and the n8x0 NITs won't be repeated with Fremantle and the N900?
My personal hope - that we'll have a strong enough community development going on that we either

1) never get in the situation or

2) have developers crossing the 'divide' along who's willing to dedicate some time with some fixes and being allowed to publish results with

3) infrastructure and procedures in community to make community variants / SSU's to deliver these fixes or

4) a community which can make a precise request for X source to be opened, along with list of people who can actually do something about the source if it was opened and what they would do..


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