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- - "Install here" : why Linux doesn't do it? (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63707)

Re: "Install here" : why Linux doesn't do it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiagoTiago (Post 839118)

If the package manager keeps track of where things are installed, any program that would need to know if a given program is installed and where would just check the place where the package manager stores that information.

Regarding DLLs in Windows, in the rare cases i need a program to use an specific DLL instead of the one present in PATH i just put a copy of the DLL in question in the same folder as the executable, and in several instances i've updated a DLL because of one program, and didn't even had to do any tricks to keep other programs working, the newer version of the DLL remained compatible (perhaps nowadays developers are more carefull when releasing newer version of their DLLs? Or perhaps i've just been lucky all these years...)

Many programs in Windows do offer the option of keeping it all in a single folder, for those that don't i can just install them inside Sandboxie on a pendrive or whatever.

Regardless of the OS, i consider it much more tidy to keep things that are only for a given program instead of being shared be under a single folder than spread all over; ideally configuration files would all have the same extension so if i ever needed to find them all it would be just a matter of running a search. If i even need to backup things from a program i often just copy the install folder, and then i transfer whatever files back if after a reinstall they aren't kept (even better when the program divides it's files in subfolders according to what they are about). Another nice thing with this approach is there is no risk of name conflicts, all programs can have their own "config.ini" without needing to prepend their own names and versions making filenames long and annoying to read.

Well.. this will not work on all windows programs.. often you need to copy the register to be able to backup a program that way. Normally it is just easier to set up the program again than back it up.

A format on Windows often means doing everything from scratch.. or it will make the system unstable. When i used windows before.. i formated about once every 6 month cause it got to slow.

For me it takes about 1-2 hour to set up an Ubuntu system as i like it.. last time i flashed my n900 it took 30 minutes... for Windows it takes a day.. sometimes a couple of days cause of the things you missed to setup or install. (i am no windows user any longer but i help others)

Re: "Install here" : why Linux doesn't do it?

My whole life i only had one partition per physical hard disk, only started doing multiple partitions when i got into linux, swap partition, root partition, documents parition etc (hasn't run all that smoothly, lots of getting used to, and lots of things just plain worksome to achieve; though some out of the PC stuff kinda got in the way too)

Re: "Install here" : why Linux doesn't do it?

@TiagoTiago

Well... It's nice that you seem to have your own elaborated thoughts about the file structure Unix is using (Unix, yes, as the hierarchy is still more or less the same). It is nice to know that we have some knowledgeable people around that will, without the slightest doubt, help shape the future of Linux and Windows alike... We will be happy to learn from you.

Re: "Install here" : why Linux doesn't do it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiagoTiago (Post 839140)

Yeah.. that is true. When coming from another system there is a lerning curve. Pretty much everybody goes through this stadium. But that doesn't mean the old one you are familiar with is better.

Re: "Install here" : why Linux doesn't do it?

You can specify the folder where to install by passing dpkg the --instdir=<directory> option when instaling. But don't expect to be this a very good idea because of many reasons...

Re: "Install here" : why Linux doesn't do it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by benlau (Post 839132)

Robbie,

great, I have two common consensus with you. "Deb packages are a great idea!" and "And its better than Windows installation , for sure"

well , my point of view is not only on N900 , but also talk about desktop Linux (As the thread is also talking about Windows desktop) . You may ignore AppImage if you want to talk N900 only.

I run Debian Squeeze (x64) as my Desktop OS. I've run Ubuntu-based systems for the last year, switching to Debian itself about a month ago.
And, as you can probably tell, I'm happy with it. I really like Debian-style installation, vs Windows-style.

When I want to install a bunch of software, instead of opening a webbrowser, going to ten or more websites, downloading software and installing each piece separately, I just open a terminal and type "sudo apt-get install X Y Z W A B C", hit Y when asked, and go do something else as it downloads. No fuss, no muss, it just works.

And even when I end up finding a piece of software that requires manual installation and compiling, it generally takes about as long(or less) than the equivalent Windows installation would take.

Yet, the whole best part is that, no matter how much software I install, it doesn't slow down my system. There's no registry to get crufty, and most software doesn't start automatically on bootup.
Now, while this is more a matter of the program writers, its still a factor when comparing Linux(any flavor) to Windows installation.

Re: "Install here" : why Linux doesn't do it?

It's not the filesystem's fault, the question here is how you use it. Most of the customs of *nix users in regards to usage of storage could be recreated in NTFS running Windows, and much of what happens in Windows with files and folders can also be done with ext* and company with a Linux kernel under the hood; it's all a matter of how programmers decide to make their programs act. I bet that if you just do a raw port, just converting calls etc to the corresponding, several Windows programs will install in a linux system creating a "Program Files" folder and it's own subfolder inside that, and if the port is done correctly, it will run from there; i got lots of programs on my Windows machine that originally came from Linux that fill my userprofile root folder ( %UserProfile% aka %HOMEPATH%) with dot-prefixed folders instead of using %AppData%, though they pollute the folder tree with misguided entries, they run just fine.

Re: "Install here" : why Linux doesn't do it?

Still don't get what the issue is. dpkg --instdir will put stuff whereever you want it (but then it's your problem if a system service doesn't find it or a part of it, obviously)

Again, it seems that you aversion stems from how you use your apps - the convention of putting all executables in bin is because that's what's in path and that's what you'll see when you use it from a command line. When you click around, a graphical (hierarchical) layout is preferred, and most desktop environments do just that - they put stuff in /bin to keep compatibility and put shortcuts/link into the menu entries - everybody happy.

FWIW MeeGo uses something very similar in layout to what you propose so looks a lot less like a traditional linux (it puts the apps into their respective /opt/namespace/... so nobody touches /usr/bin et al)

Re: "Install here" : why Linux doesn't do it?

Most of this discussion can be summed-up as:

Windows is not Linux. Linux is not Windows.

Windows does its own thing and Linux does its own thing too.

I certainly would not expect them to adopt each other's filesystem strategy - they are both perfectly fine as they are.

There are pros and cons with each system. Either choose one or use both it's your choice but don't enforce one system's filesystem on another.

For the record I use both Windows and Linux in my daily life and quite happy with it.

Diversity is a "Good Thing"(tm).

Re: "Install here" : why Linux doesn't do it?

For backing up/formatting.

Normally on a linux system you look in "/home/user/.<program>/".. seldom you need to go to another folder. To install and uninstall you could use synaptic package manager to check or uncheck the programs you like.

on a windows system you normally look in "/program files/" but pretty often you need to look in "/system/" or "/system32/" or "/My Documents/" or "/user/application data/" or on "c:\" or on "d:\"... e.t.c. and then you need to go to the registry sometimes and change some settings there. If you clogged the system you need to format and all your settings are gone making it paintful to setup again. Looking fo drivers on the internet.. e.t.c.