Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

The HTC Leo, if the design is as speculated, is exactly the form factor that the N900 should have had.

Then Nokia wouldn't have needed to keep apologising: "Oh, it's sort-of like a smartphone but it doesn't have MMS and it's only step 4 of 5, and it's not for everyone". Instead they could have proudly said "It's our best ever internet tablet, it now includes 3G data connectivity, and oh yes it can do voice too for those who need voice".

Roger

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

Wait. Did I miss the part where the N900 doesn't have MMS?

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

Yep, you missed it. Nokia's position (stated, I think, in one of the interview videos) was that "we didn't have time to do everything, but if there's enough interest we will implement it sometime".

http://discussions.europe.nokia.com/...read.id=163195

Regards,
Roger

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

I swing back and forth on being comfortable saying the n900 a phone or a tablet computer. I have decided to say it is both, but it depend on who you are and what you want it for.

For me the n900 is a phone and the best thing Nokia could say is "The N900 is the first in our line of next generation mobile devices(phones). It combines the best of connectivity, social media and networking with a powerful opensource platform." I also know i cannot take advantage of the full capability of the device but will be able to use what those that can produce.

This is not what someone like Eiffel will buy it, for him "It's our best ever internet tablet, it now includes 3G data connectivity, and oh yes it can do voice too for those who need voice" is the best message.

I still think that Nokia wants to make money with this piece of hardware and they will market it in whatever why they can to make the most. For better or worse, the potential market is greater for phones. Those of you who want to use it primarily as a tablet as opposed to a phone, no one is going to complain about your off-label use.

The n900 could be be Nokias bridge between Netbook and phone. A combination of the best of both worlds, and convenient enough to fit into anyones pocket. It will work for the hacker coding on it in the airport with a bt keyboard as well as the 17yo watching movies and playing video games while sexting her boyfriend

Make it whatever the hell you want to, the best thing that can happen is there are 10000 user types that want it. More demand, more tools, more apps more opportunity to build cool things for the world.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

Oh my. Well, it would make it equal to the iPhone when it came out to right this very moment in the US. I think US residents (myself inclusive) have to wait until September 25th for MMS.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

I know its just opinion, but the research shows that a tablet form factor with a QWERTY keypad is the most wanted form factor in the world. Non key devices don't usually sell well, except for the iPhone.

I'd like a Leo-like device with a sliding T9 keypad, but that isn't the best way to attract users. You have to go with numbers.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

I can honestly say in 15+ years of owning cell phones I have NEVER sent an MMS that entire time. I guess I just dont get the big deal, the advantage over just quickly shooting off an email from the phone escapes me.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

Well, I don't consider myself a zealot, but I sort of like it...:rolleyes: Honestly, I like the iPhone, just not its supposed position as "THE DEVICE", which I don't think it has earned or is warranted. I'm always willing to explain my stance. I don't "flame" devices (people can get it though), but I have a firm philosophy on mobiles which I would also explain. I NEVER spew misinformation. I make mistakes, but stand behind my advice/opinions, and am always willing to recant them when I've been enlightened.

And don't be so sure what "they" do or don't want to read. I find that people prefer honesty, and I am always honest. YOU don't want to read it, and that's fine. But I had an opinion on the N900 as it relates to the N900, and that's why it came up. If its nonesense, then the thread title is just as much nonesense. Vs. means versus, implying a battle to be won, imo, even though I see no contest or competitors. The N900 is a computer competitor, not any of the phones on the market.

Because you like a device and I don't doesn't make it nonesense. What doesn't make sense about my opinion?

I was speaking only about the iPhone in the regard of optimized pages. I don't agree with pages tailored to one device but a worse experience on another with a better browser. I think its best to put ALL mobiles first, but not all agree. I hope that isn't more nonesense, as you say. I'm for standards, too, not special use cases. That was the point of the post, which I hope you read in context. I agree about some apps being necessary, but most aren't, in my "nonesensica"l opinion.


You got FLASH on the iPhone browser??? I think multitasking and a flash browser make the iPHone near the best device on the market, but Apple doesn't agree. My device manufacturer must share my philosophy to share my cash. THIS is why I like Nokia, Symbian, and Maemo.

How can I give a positive or negative aspect without hailing or discounting a device? That sounds like nonesense to me. Please give an example of how I do it with nonesense and how you'd do it. Because I speak with passion doesn't mean I'm not rational or objective. I'm just married to my opinion, and have firm beliefs on the matter. I promote mobiles as a favorite hobby, but I'm no hater or cheerleader. Just passionate.

Well the fruitphone's app usefullness has been discussed various places, so you can look online for yourself. This isn't why I am here, and if you want to find apps for your E71, there are plenty of app depositories everywhere, including my community's. What does that have to do with Maemo or Maemo apps? Because my conversation was in relation to this thread and the Maemo browser in that particular instance.

What is allowed on these forums? You can't compare competitive devices, can't laud any either, and can't have an opinion? Why are we here? Isn't it to get the opinions of others and share what we find to make Maemo better?

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

You take email for granted, but not everyone has access. But 99% of the world has MMS. Think global, bratag. Small Indian villages, African farms, the like. We all use technology different ways, so you can't leave out a large part of the demographic.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

In general, for someone to receive emailed pictures on their phone, the receiver would have to have all of the following:

• data plan
• email client with attachment abilities
• email account

With MMS, the receiver just needs an MMS capable device, and they don't need any of the above.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

True, but that "data-less" demographic is getting smaller and smaller every day...and I'd wager that most of the people who are buying the N900 probably don't converse with African farmers on a daily basis as a rule, much less send snapshots. There are corner cases yes..but are those corner cases justification enough for whatever efforts and delays that including the functionality would have entailed. I humbly submit the answer is "no".

That said, I'm not *against* them including MMS in any device (N900 or otherwise)..more functionality can only be a good thing as long as it's optional to use. I just don't think it's the disaster that many make it out to be if it's not there at launch (or ever, for that matter).

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

Having spent enough time in various backwaters over the globe my experience tells me this usage scenario doesn't really work. If you're in an African village (and you're lucky to have cell coverage at all), your friends won't have fancy MMS capable camera-enabled phones (take a look at 1xxx and 2xxx Nokias, that's the kind of phones we're talking about). Furthermore, MMS (and internet) is considered a premium in those places and often costs more (even in absolute value) than it does in Western countries, so again, not exactly popular even if you have the hardware for it.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

I have sshfs set up, so I have access to my entire music collection without using any flash memory.

The only thing is, this only works with a fast enough connection (wifi or, with the N900, 3g). So, like Ari Jaaksi, you'll find yourself only jogging where there's 3G data coverage... :)

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

Well I DO speak to many mobile users from various lands, some even third world countries. SF's demographic is largely Indian and African, so don't assume. My guys exist, and marginalizing them won't do Maemo or them any good. Ovi just started giving free email, and signed up over a million already, because many of those people don't have or have ever had a PC. Maemo is the opportunity for them to have a real computer with true crunching power they haven't experienced before. You have no idea how many people have only experienced the web via a smartphone, or even a dumbphone. The N95, N70, 5800 and 6220 are big phones in those lands. Not having a data connection all of the time for email won't be such a big deal.

I agree lacking MMS isn't so big, though, because it should be easily added if demand arises. I'll want it, but we'll see.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

It really doesn't mean as much to me either as it does some of my friends/family.

However as an American AT&T iPhone user, that whole http://viewmymessage.com/1 or /2 then a nonsensical ID and then a password that's equally nonsense means that I'd probably use my computer to get to that MMS sent to me.

It's actually nerve wrecking. That whole system, once replaced will be a major pain in the arse removed. Mind you... I might not use it frequently, but it perhaps the worst user experience I've ever seen for a mainstream app/utility.

But around these parts - and any other place that generally dislikes the iPhone - the lack of true MMS has been a rally cry to get behind. To see the N900 make that same oversight, befuddles me.

I still don't think I'd use it, but having some cryptic way of getting something that's sent to me via MMS as opposed to e-mailing it to me is just plain bothersome.

I'd personally avoid putting myself in that situation again if I could.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

+1, gerbick.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

Directly on the phone? How many pictures do you exchange with them on average? Of those, how many are the African farmers who have no access to the internet through either internet cafe's, broadband, or a data plan and can ONLY communicate via sms or MMS on a regular basis?

I'm not "assuming" that nobody in Africa or India has a phone. I'm "assuming" that in the vast majority of cases those people who would be in communication with the likely N900 launch customer probably has some sort of email access.
It's not marginalization to express reality.

Hence my statement that the "data-less" demographic was shrinking every day and thus MMS was, over time, becoming less and less critical to support.

I think you are confused on who is going to be buying these things at launch, and hence missing my point. As far as I know, the N900 won't be coming to any African farmers at launch except those "gentleman" farmers wealthy enough to afford to import them..and thus probably wealthy enough to have internet access. My assertion is that of the people who ARE going to have the N900 at launch (sans MMS capability) probably don't converse with many folks in the far reaches of the world where email is not accessible. Of those that do have such connections, another small percentage of THAT group actually exchange pictures (I communicate with lots of peoples all across the world, but there are very few that I send pictures to through email or any other medium). As I mentioned before, there are of course corner cases (and you may very well be one of them)...but corner cases do not justify major delays in product launches. This might be something that Nokia, or the community, can add in later if there is sufficient demand.

You'd be surprised at what kind of ideas I have. I'm quite aware of the demographics of technology proliferation...that's the basis of my original analysis. When folks in the middle of Cambodian rain forests (for instance) can get on sites such as Facebook...I think we're reaching a point where internet access (of some sort) is approaching a state of ubiquity. It might not be "in their palm" or even very fast...but it generally is available in most parts of the world where cell phones are common. Yes, "in their palm" is more convenient as is multi-megabit fast...but convenience isn't the same thing as availability.

And in virtually every case...those who can afford a N95 et al generally have access to some sort of data connection as well as an email account (even if it's over gprs or via an internet cafe type place).

Glad we agree on my overall point. As I said before, I'm certainly not against them adding it in as long as it doesn't delay the date that I can get my grubby little hands on my very own N900. Once I sign for it, they can add whatever features they want that I'll never use at their leisure.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

yes, it is stupid to argue if a device is pocketable by your own clothes. if you dress to a circus tent, a whole server farm would be pocketable. see what i mean?

e: and if you dress to stretch jeans, e71 could barely be pocketable in contrary.

and it is a methaphor. everybody has an arsloch (written in german to bypass cencorship) [that's a fact] and also opinion about a device if it is pocketable or not by ones pockets.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

About how pocketable things are, of course it depends of what you wear, but for myself I would have preferred my N900 to be 1 or 2mm thicker for a longer battery life.
If I could pocket my phone by the end of last century without looking dumb, I can handle my N900 to be bigger.
If one wears tight pants, he should do like most tight pant wearing people (women) do, use a purse. Even the iPhone wouldn't be really comfortable to wear in a tight pants pocket.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

That goes both ways. The N810 goes into my Levi 501 back pockets with ease.

Bis dann.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

From the time that I have had with the iPhone there are hardware items that I really miss such as notification lights hardware camera button on a cam on the 3gs is not that bad in actual use. Going to maemo I will appreciate the open from the start of the phone approach rather than be locked in... I plan on using both side by side as they really are separate devices catergories... From the apps that I have used I really like on my iPhone MLB At Bat. Tweetdeck which is phenomenal app even on my desktop... It these two simple apps that get the most use that I figure won't be available... There a lot of apps that I use that supplement goin to the real web that hopefully will be coded for maemo if not for 5 but harmattan 6... Nokia relationship with developers though with history of breaking code makes that unlikely... Thats a truth based on factual history... It's up to consumers to accept that... The devices are in different but everyone loves a new toy... Which the devices are in ways cuz they are above and beyond what most folk will need... It's just a want!

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

Chill guys. This thread has been reported numerous times already by several members.

Debating, if you are on topic, is healthy but if you start getting personal, it will get messy. There is no room for personal attacks here at Talk.

Don't risk getting your account and all your IP addresses banned.

Thanks.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

I've always thought this to be an interesting point.
Nokia always promoted the N800/810 as a "pocketable" device....("the internet all the time" it says, as the guy in the first N800 promotional video slips the device into the inside pocket of a sports jacket.) IMO, it was one of the main features that distinguished the Nokia Internet Tablet from almost all of the other UMPCs, the mids, the handheld tablets, etc.
OK, the NITs were obviously just a bit too large for many pockets, (as evidenced in this thread), but they're very close. And at the same time, they can fit comfortably into some pockets (jackets, cargo pants, etc.) They don't always need a separate case and/or bag.
Now I receive RSS feeds to about 100 tech related sites which I scan almost daily. I also listen and/or watch a dozen or so of the best tech podcasts weekly. My eyes and ears have always perked up whenever the NITs were mentioned. (For instance Chris DeBona, the open source manager at Google, once made an offhand comment on Cranky Geeks that he thought the NIT was "a very solid device.")
But I've never once saw or heard this pocket-ability factor emphasized or even mentioned by any reviewer, blogger, tech journalist, podcaster, analyst, etc. The NIT was always just lumped together in the category as a tablet device or an Ultra Mobile. This topic of the device size has been mentioned frequently recently as the supposed Apple Tablet has been generating a lot of talk surrounding the category......and the NIT is often mentioned as an example of a "tablet that failed."
So I find it interesting that that N900 has been shrunk to comfortably fit the hand and pocket. Now it definitely fits into the pocketable smartphone size category....albeit, a rather thick one.
And at the same time, new devices from HTC, LG and Samsung are inching up bigger and bigger.
I'm just saying, it's kind of interesting.....

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

Kenny, I think the size thing is mostly related to the phone aspect. As an NIT only, the size could've been larger, in my opinion. But I wouldn't carry it everywhere, unlike the N900, which is the most powerful device of its size I've run across.

I, too find it funny that only now are more people trying the web tablet game on for size. Fortunately, I think the falling desktop sales will be found in the tablet/netbook genre, so room still exists.

What is shocking is Schneider said Maemo wouldn't go beyond 4-5" screens. Does this spell doom for those wanting a 7" Maemo NIT? Or will Moblin fill the void, as Reuters has alluded?

Apple may have action, but Samsung doesn't have a vertical solution compatible with its other OSes, and Android will probably limit some developers in the netbook/NIT category, where expectations are greater. We'll see in the next 8-10 quarters what the consumers want.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

I'll take some of the blame. I worked too many hours yesterday, almost 25 straight. Was being a defensive and brutish jerk. I'm a little embarrassed myself. All apologies, folks. I'm fresh and friendly today. Anyone want a hug?:D

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

whoever sanitized the embarrassing posts, thanx, btw.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

Just a small update:

According to this video

http://www.phonescoop.com/articles/article.php?a=304

The guy says that the n900 automatically switches from 3G to wifi if it detects any saved wifi networks in the vicinity. Is this feature already there on the iphone? Does it happen automatically?

Another feature which was great to hear was the guy showing off the n900 mentioned that he could download a torrent using transmission within 10 minutes and then play that 2000kbps video without any conversion. I bet the iphone does not support many of the codecs... is that right?

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

@sachin: yes, wifi takes higher priority than 3G when both are on. wifi can be can be set to always scan for available access points (and prompts you) when the preferred access points are not available.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

According to this post from Matkapuhelininfo.
- Yes it does switch from 3G to Wlan and back automatically if you allow it to.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

Thanks Ysss. But do you activate that feature or do you generally switch of wifi and use it only when you want to use it?

And from what the guy said i assume that there wont be any prompting just change in connection automatically... is this how it is on the iphone or do we have to manually respond to the prompts?

Thanks

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

@sachin: I use a few 3rd party programs on the iphone (for multitasking, for allowing skype over 3G, etc) and with one of them you can 'pull' a small drawer on top of the screen with a bunch of toggles (they're customizable). I have the following toggles set on mine:
Cellular, 3G, WIFI, Bluetooth, GPS, Brightness..

In my daily usecase I use wifi at home and at work and I generally toggle wifi on only when I enter those two areas. It's very quick to do... turn on the phone, swipe the lock, swipe down for drawer and there's one-click access for all the toggles I mentioned above.

For 'saved' access points, it will auto-connect without any prompts (you'll see the 3G icon replaced with the WIFI 'fan' icon).

Want me to take a short video (<1 minute) to show you around?
Won't hurt to see what the competition's like. Heh.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

Has backgrounder improved yet? (multi-tasking you mentioned). Last I looked into it (when considering the iPhone) it was buggy and crash prone. Though to be fair ysss, alot of those uses you mentioned seems to imply that you jailbreaked the device. And in that case you should point out that out too. =P

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

No i will take your word. I live with my friend who has a iphone 3G but never cared much to use it. My n810 is lot more useful because i have configured to my tastes. I guess the same applies to iphone users not caring to use the n810.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

But i guess with the n900 there is no need to do that toggling also. As he mentioned in the video that there is actually no wireless on/off. So the wifi automatically kicks in when you are in an area with wireless. I find it a very useful feature. I am not sure about the usability because my n810 does not have 3G.... so it is going to be different for me.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

@sachin: Well, by default there's no quick-toggle for the wifi. I just installed the quick toggle utility so I can keep them off when I know for sure iI won't be using it to lessen power drains and whatnot.

Hmmm.. no wireless on\off? I'd much prefer to have one..

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

I may be wrong. He acutally did not say that there is no wireless on/off. But i assumed that since the internet tablets where supposed to be always on. Also this is the case with the n810 because it does not have 3G but only wifi. But i assume the ability to switch wifi on/off will definitely be there on the n900.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

Well, it's kind of pointless to compare facts with assumptions at this point.

Let's talk and compare more when we can use less 'I assumes' in our sentences. I've also put in my amazon preorders, so I won't be blowing hot airs either when doing the comparisons.

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

Sounds good. Then we can do the n900 vs iphone thing again :D

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

Nokia, the best!!

Re: N900 vs Iphone.
 

Yes, i jailbroke my device. I don't think i'd buy the iphone if it's not jailbreak-able. If that was the case, i'd probably buy the ipod touch to use the browser and games tethered to another phone.

Backgrounder + kirikae works well for me, just have to watch the memory consumption and close some apps when the free mem goes below 30MB.

My iphone very rarely crashes (actually i can't recall any unplanned reboots ever since i've upgraded to 3gs, more than 2 months ago). When an app doesn't get enough ram, it closes and dumps you back to homescreen (springboard). That's also a rarity on the 3GS (3x more free ram after loading the OS compared to the previous iphones. )