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-   -   Big announcement coming soon from T-Mobile ; Project Black to shake things up? (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32554)

YoDude 2009-10-20 13:31
Re: Big announcement coming soon from T-Mobile ; Project Black to shake things up?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crashdamage (Post 349696)
Don't forget - heavily subsidizing the iPhone has put a world of hurt in AT&T profits. Not the windfall for them you might think. Profit margins on voice or data in the US (after network build-out + maintainence costs) really aren't so hot. Text message charges are where the easy money is now.

As long as we're all playing Project Black guessing games, I'll throw in mine...nothing new, just my opinion on what will happen...

There's not a merger with Sprint coming. I think T-Mo US has decided it's easier and cheaper to grow by nabbing other carrier's users with better deals and cool phones than to take on a sure-to-be messy and very expensive merger with that friggin' disaster called Sprint. The considerable bandwidth controlled by Sprint/Nextel is tempting, but not that tempting. T-Mo already controls enough bandwidth they pass on Sprint and their semi-satisfied, hard-to-absorb customers.

That said, T-Mo may have made a deal with Clearwire to help build some LTE infrastructure for them in the future. WiMax is a dead end, and Clearwire surely knows it by now. And, what little WiMax Clearwire has built already is easily converted to LTE. Note that Clearwire's WiMax partner Sprint is advertising 4G on TV, but no mention of WiMax.

As for Sprint...well, Sprint is a drowning man grasping at WiMax straws to try and stay relevant, to have something to advertise that sounds like progress. I live in Sprint's hometown, and they've done zero, nada, nothing to even plan for WiMax here. Sprint has neither the money nor the expertise. It will not be built.

To nab those new customers, T-Mo will offer a $50-for-all plan, that seems fairly certain, but it probably will not include 'full' smartphone-type 3G. Will be a little extra charge for that to help pay for infrastructure costs. Some other new plans too, of course.

But I think T-Mo US will break European-type pricing in the US market, where you get a cheaper monthly rate for using an unlocked phone or buying one from T-Mo at retail instead of financing it through a subsidy. Since I have a N900 on order from Nokia USA, I'm really pulling for that to happen.
Very good! http://www.clicksmilies.com/auswahl/ernaehrung004.gif


Quote:
Originally Posted by You
But I think T-Mo US will break European-type pricing in the US market, where you get a cheaper monthly rate for using an unlocked phone or buying one from T-Mo at retail instead of financing it through a subsidy. Since I have a N900 on order from Nokia USA, I'm really pulling for that to happen.
I too think this last bit^ will be the case and may very well be the game changer they speak of.

We may have seen in the past how a balance of things like "Churn rate", "ARPU", and handset introduction and customer upgrade schedules could put pressure on US carriers to maintain the status quo regarding “locked in” contacts contracts and early termination fees. Any carrier, the thinking went, that broke with this status quo would eventually gain the most from attrition provided their service satisfied the coverage needs of new customers. However, others reasoned that such a carrier would experience significantly reduced revenue until the right combination of handsets were available and enough potential customers were "out of contract" with other carriers.

Perhaps because of some of the conditions you remark about earlier in your post, T-Mo has found itself in a position financially to ride out established upgrade schedules and reap the future pay-off of increased market share. :)

Crashdamage 2009-10-21 00:39
Re: Big announcement coming soon from T-Mobile ; Project Black to shake things up?
 
Well, if I do say so myself, as stuff about Project Black dribbles out it looks like I did guess right. No Sprint merger - a grab for customers with pricing and phones instead, lower service cost for unlocked phones (the 'Get More Plus' deal) and a little extra for 3G data service. Getting an unlocked N900 looks like a good move.

Back to polishing my crystal ball...

Nexus7 2009-10-21 13:53
Re: Big announcement coming soon from T-Mobile ; Project Black to shake things up?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crashdamage (Post 353363)
... lower service cost for unlocked phones (the 'Get More Plus' deal) and a little extra for 3G data service. Getting an unlocked N900 looks like a good move.
If you're going by the same rumors, the service cost is the same. With a contract, you get a subsidized phone (Even More) with a 2 year contract. Without subsidy (Even More Plus), you can opt to pay for the phone in installments.

What phone? What is the amount of subsidy? We don't know, it's all rumors and leaks until supposedly 10/25.

Oh, and furthermore, phone for $559.99 on Newegg.

nilchak 2009-10-21 14:02
Re: Big announcement coming soon from T-Mobile ; Project Black to shake things up?
 
This is good news - but I am a bit sceptical here.

What if they do sell the phones (and the N900) over at T-Mobile but at higher prices than most retailers. Then what is the benefit of buying from T-mobile where I actually have to pay more than market prevailing prices just to get a monthly plan ?

If they can price match at leats most retailers and have it on par prices than that makes sence. But if they have already added a premium of 20% on the price and then offer a monthly plan buying plan - that is a bit of a downer for me.

YoDude 2009-10-21 14:10
Re: Big announcement coming soon from T-Mobile ; Project Black to shake things up?
 
I'm hoping for a pre-paid or out of contact plan that allows data... on the cheap. In fact a DATA only plan would be sweet.
I wouldn't mind having to pay full tilt on any calls I have to make or recieve on the thing, but I would like an all I can eat DATA w/3G for say, $20 a day...

Nexus7 2009-10-21 14:29
Re: Big announcement coming soon from T-Mobile ; Project Black to shake things up?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nilchak (Post 353908)
What if they do sell the phones (and the N900) over at T-Mobile but at higher prices than most retailers.
There's going to be a cost to finance it. Whether or not you think it is reasonable is something we can only determine when we see the exact plan details.

VZW's Droid (nee Sholes) breaks 10/28. Hopefully we'll have enough info to compare it to T-Mo+N900 by then.

matthewcc 2009-10-21 14:37
Re: Big announcement coming soon from T-Mobile ; Project Black to shake things up?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by UCOMM (Post 349404)
rather than the type of phone i suspect it would be based on whether you got a subsidy on the phone or payed in full/brought your own
I still strongly doubt this model, despite hoping for it. It would be nice and could change how mobile devices are bough sold and attached to plans in the US. Additionally it would finally make economic sense to buy an unlocked phone.

The problem is that it would be introducing a new model to the USA and shaking up the status quo. This would introduce a lot of new risk to the market. This would be great for us, but not for the telcos

matthewcc 2009-10-21 14:51
Re: Big announcement coming soon from T-Mobile ; Project Black to shake things up?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nilchak (Post 353908)
This is good news - but I am a bit sceptical here.

What if they do sell the phones (and the N900) over at T-Mobile but at higher prices than most retailers. Then what is the benefit of buying from T-mobile where I actually have to pay more than market prevailing prices just to get a monthly plan ?

If they can price match at leats most retailers and have it on par prices than that makes sence. But if they have already added a premium of 20% on the price and then offer a monthly plan buying plan - that is a bit of a downer for me.

assuming that nokia does not offer a discounted "bring your own mobile" plan then you get nothing either way. If they offer a bring your own mobile plan then you don't get much out of buying it unsubsidized from t-mobile, immediatly, but you should find some savings over the life of the plan. (in theory is should be the selling price * the money factor)

It is similar to a car lease vs buy decision. if you buy the car you own it and can sell it for whatever residual value. if you lease the car the you owe the dealer the residual value at the end of the lease term + you have paid for the cost of money over the time of the lease.

Buying a car outright is generally cheaper than leasing, it is just more expensive up front, where the lease is cheaper up front but more expensive over time.

Now, since i do not believe we will see a "bring your own mobile" plan in the US, not buying the subsidized phone from TMO just means you got financially raped for the privilege of having an unlocked phone (and the benefits it comes with)

matthewcc 2009-10-21 15:00
Re: Big announcement coming soon from T-Mobile ; Project Black to shake things up?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by YoDude (Post 352566)
Very good! http://www.clicksmilies.com/auswahl/ernaehrung004.gif


I too think this last bit^ will be the case and may very well be the game changer they speak of.

We may have seen in the past how a balance of things like "Churn rate", "ARPU", and handset introduction and customer upgrade schedules could put pressure on US carriers to maintain the status quo regarding “locked in” contacts contracts and early termination fees. Any carrier, the thinking went, that broke with this status quo would eventually gain the most from attrition provided their service satisfied the coverage needs of new customers. However, others reasoned that such a carrier would experience significantly reduced revenue until the right combination of handsets were available and enough potential customers were "out of contract" with other carriers.

Perhaps because of some of the conditions you remark about earlier in your post, T-Mo has found itself in a position financially to ride out established upgrade schedules and reap the future pay-off of increased market share. :)
How strong can this be in the US??

TMO has a "unique" bandwith for 3g. It means that anyone who wants a fast connection needs a new phone. (if they come from at&t or a connection at all if they come from Vz or sprint) In Europe it is a bit different, All telcos are running on the same bands, I can easily move from 02 to Vodaphone or TMO-DE easily and get full functionality of my mobile.

I dont think this will help future device churn as we move more and more towards a data centric mobile world. It may be a nice blip for dumbphone users but will not likely affect smart(er) phone users.

walrus 2009-10-21 15:12
Re: Big announcement coming soon from T-Mobile ; Project Black to shake things up?
 
I have some good and bad news. I just confirmed with a t-mobile representative in my building... they will be getting Nokia phones and selling them unlocked as part of Project Dark... but not N900's, probably N97's.

Good news being that it confirms they will have unlocked plans available and even unlocked phones... but why no n900 i don't know... maybe they just aren't ready, or maybe they just aren't part of the promotion.

The guy I talked to said he very much doubts they will subsidize with a contract any high end nokia phones any time in the near future, so don't get your hopes up if that is what you wanted.

Nexus7 2009-10-21 19:16
Re: Big announcement coming soon from T-Mobile ; Project Black to shake things up?
 
If Project Black is indeed according to the leaks on BGR right now, then not very ground-breaking. Unless they have a subsidized N900.

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/...th/#more-37074

UCOMM 2009-10-21 19:22
Re: Big announcement coming soon from T-Mobile ; Project Black to shake things up?
 
tmonews.com broke it and now their getting hammered

but boy genius doesnt have everything, the family no contract plans are pretty cheap 2 lines basic plan with 750 min and unlimited web and text is 109

http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2009/1...-more-79-99-o/

engadget has the images for now


80$ everything unlimited if youre getting a single line and bring your own phone - no contract

cenwesi 2009-10-21 19:23
Re: Big announcement coming soon from T-Mobile ; Project Black to shake things up?
 
boy am i switching from AT&T this week :)

klinglerware 2009-10-21 19:42
Re: Big announcement coming soon from T-Mobile ; Project Black to shake things up?
 
Wow, those rates aren't that much different compared to what I pay now on T-mobile (albeit though, I have a promotional rate). There is no incentive for me to change my plan. I'm already month-to-month for awhile now since my last contract ended and don't care for subsidized phones, so nothing here really appeals to me.

As has been noted on other sites, it's starting to look like this might be an attempt to bring in people from more expensive carriers, without eroding the revenue they generate from their existing subscribers.

Victorivich 2009-10-21 19:46
Re: Big announcement coming soon from T-Mobile ; Project Black to shake things up?
 
Okay.

I know a few people who work at T-Mobile retail stores.
I went today to a grocery store, "Net Cost," in Philadelphia yesterday to ask about this "New Game Changer," and I asked him about Project Black.
(He's an old friend of my fathers from back in the day, so he remembered me.)
So I asked about the N900, e said he had Nokia and other representatives come to him over the weekend for a meeting and he tells me that the N900 will not be released to T-Mobile anytime soon. Specifically he said that it will not be released anytime before 2010. So hope for that is lost in his words.
I also asked about the $50 Unlimited plan, as of right now (yesterday) he does not know anything about a new $50 Unlimited plan, so clearly there might not be one, as it points in all favors of a price war between companies.
He said though, the 25th of October, the Motorola Cliq will be released, and he says from the sound of the dates, thats what the "Project" is for T-Mobile.

Hopefully, he was wrong, but otherwise...

In my opinion, I hope T-Mobile is joking, because the Cliq is horrible, very horrible. The design is just gross as well.

In my opinion, for those of you thinking it's going to be the plan or something, it's not.

I'm still staying with T-Mobile, on account since I want 3G on my Pre-Ordered N900.

Hope I helped somehow.

somedude 2009-10-21 20:42
Re: Big announcement coming soon from T-Mobile ; Project Black to shake things up?
 
Individual on flex account:
http://i36.tinypic.com/f9f4ec.jpg
individual on regular account
http://i36.tinypic.com/21vtj5.jpg
Family on regular account
http://i37.tinypic.com/24n1oac.jpg

somedude 2009-10-21 20:44
Re: New T-mobile Plans
 
here is the new plans for tmobile

Victorivich 2009-10-21 20:48
Re: Big announcement coming soon from T-Mobile ; Project Black to shake things up?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by somedude (Post 354550)
Individual on flex account:

Family on regular account

Talking about CONTRACTS, not FlexPay :rolleyes:

But yea, people were saying $50 Unlimited contracts with Calls, Texts, Data + all that good stuff.

FlexPay is... FlexPay... not really a contract.
Though if this is the case... not much of a game changer if you ask me :eek:

somedude 2009-10-21 20:58
Re: Big announcement coming soon from T-Mobile ; Project Black to shake things up?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victorivich (Post 354555)
Talking about CONTRACTS, not FlexPay :rolleyes:

But yea, people were saying $50 Unlimited contracts with Calls, Texts, Data + all that good stuff.

FlexPay is... FlexPay... not really a contract.
Though if this is the case... not much of a game changer if you ask me :eek:
hold on a second let me take a picture of regular plan and i will post it

ok picture added

Texrat 2009-10-21 21:15
Re: Big announcement coming soon from T-Mobile ; Project Black to shake things up?
 
"Family on regular account" with everything is a little more than I usually pay AT&T, but with more benefits (data).

Hmmm.

If T-mobile would pay contract cancellation costs, I'm in.

Victorivich 2009-10-21 21:15
Re: Big announcement coming soon from T-Mobile ; Project Black to shake things up?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by somedude (Post 354568)
hold on a second let me take a picture of regular plan and i will post it

ok picture added

I believe you mis-understand good Sir, I like the determination though.

But, one of the major predictions to the Project Dark that will be released on October 25h, 2009 was;
("...T-Mobile planning a blockbuster $50 all-you-can-eat plan that would undercut its nearest national competitor -- Sprint, with its Simply Everything plan -- by a ridiculous $50.")
http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/12/a...ed-youre-in-t/


But otherwise, I know what your saying, from this;
http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2009/10/...-plan-pricing/


I stand by what I say, that is NOT a game changer in ANY way what-so-ever.
ONLY game changer would be addition of 4G, or a subsidized version of the N900, WITHOUT removing the specs on it, and releasing it with a great plan.

Otherwise, this is hardly a change... hardly a BIG game change for T-Mobile.
I'm pretty sure Sprint's Hero will outsell/outrun+beat the Cliq in almost all aspects.

My assumption; T-Mobile will still be in Fourth place.

geneven 2009-10-21 21:19
Re: Big announcement coming soon from T-Mobile ; Project Black to shake things up?
 
Man, I would LOVE it if there was a) a merger between Sprint and T-Mobile and b) a $50 all-you-can-eat plan! That would take care of my remaining Sprint time I'm committed to and definitely allow me to get an N900. It's probably too much to ask, though...

Texrat 2009-10-21 21:26
Re: Big announcement coming soon from T-Mobile ; Project Black to shake things up?
 
I just can't see a "CDMA + GSM" provider wedding, although it would be cool. Sprint and T-Mobile have lived in different worlds for so long now. Yeah, the technologies are evolving but we're still talking one company open to SIM-swapping and one opposed...

thunderstruck 2009-10-21 23:15
Re: Big announcement coming soon from T-Mobile ; Project Black to shake things up?
 
What a let down! I just want a cheap plan with myfaves, since I use Google Voice, which is set up as a favorite for all my calls. I use 0 minutes per month. TMo needs to step up their game and quit selling mediocre phones like the G1 I currently have. Power users want power phones, and it erodes the loyalty when you have to go to an outside force to get one. Might be time for another ETF and go back to Verizon unless TMo announces a phone that doesn't suck pretty quick.

somedude 2009-10-21 23:22
Re: Big announcement coming soon from T-Mobile ; Project Black to shake things up?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 354585)
"Family on regular account" with everything is a little more than I usually pay AT&T, but with more benefits (data).

Hmmm.

If T-mobile would pay contract cancellation costs, I'm in.
they had a 150 credit to account for that purpose on the past but not at this moment i see that coming soon though

bocaJ 2009-10-21 23:35
Re: Big announcement coming soon from T-Mobile ; Project Black to shake things up?
 
Wow, with those plans, the cheapest voice plan is still $29.99/mo and the cheapest way to get unlimited web for smartphones still costs $24.99/mo.

OH LOOK, NO CHANGE IN PRICE!

Earlier, I was feeling slightly, slightly bad about signing up for a tmobile just 2 days before rumors broke, but now I really don't care. People who are interested in a contract subsidy are still probably going to get the best deal by buying an HTC TP2 through http://www.wmdeals.com/ and reselling it on eBay, netting about $275 cash while still getting 300 voice + unlimited web.

joshua.maverick 2009-10-21 23:48
Re: Big announcement coming soon from T-Mobile ; Project Black to shake things up?
 
http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/...-october-25th/

Not sure if this was posted yet, individual and family plan pricing. Looks good, sadly, I'm in Canada and will continue to be raped.

Edit: Nevermind, I went back a page and saw.

Eric G 2009-10-22 01:09
Re: Big announcement coming soon from T-Mobile ; Project Black to shake things up?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 354598)
I just can't see a "CDMA + GSM" provider wedding, although it would be cool. Sprint and T-Mobile have lived in different worlds for so long now. Yeah, the technologies are evolving but we're still talking one company open to SIM-swapping and one opposed...
Don't forget Nextel, so it would be CDMA+GSM+iDEN.

Good grief!

quipper8 2009-10-22 01:27
Re: Big announcement coming soon from T-Mobile ; Project Black to shake things up?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric G (Post 354829)
Don't forget Nextel, so it would be CDMA+GSM+iDEN.

Good grief!
Or on the positive side, any phone you can buy in america will work on our nationwide network

Bruce 2009-10-22 01:34
Re: Big announcement coming soon from T-Mobile ; Project Black to shake things up?
 
Just saw an AT&T ad for unlimited talk + text for $60 on a go phone.

Bratag 2009-10-22 03:44
Re: Big announcement coming soon from T-Mobile ; Project Black to shake things up?
 
Have to admit I am a tad underwhelmed by the new plans. I currently pay $75 for 600 minutes + extra line + unlimited data.

Dont think the new plans will offer much for me

jandmdickerson 2009-10-22 03:48
Re: Big announcement coming soon from T-Mobile ; Project Black to shake things up?
 
Yaaawwwnnnn, I guess they paid some executive big bucks to think of this...better get their money back.

Laughing Man 2009-10-22 03:50
Re: Big announcement coming soon from T-Mobile ; Project Black to shake things up?
 
The plans are targeted more to voice+text rather than data (which is what most of us are interested in). In addition it seems that if you were on the low end of minute (and sms if you even used that) the new plans are worse price wise!

mrlanrat 2009-10-22 17:34
Re: New T-mobile Plans
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by somedude (Post 354551)
here is the new plans for tmobile
Ouch, I don't think that is much of a price break at all.
Does the price of the plan do down if you had a subsidized phone after it is payed off?

Bratag 2009-10-22 17:58
Re: New T-mobile Plans
 
No way I am moving to those - I only pay 70 bucks now for 600 mins, 2 lines and unlimited data. What the hell is up with that pricing.

mrlanrat 2009-10-22 17:59
Re: New T-mobile Plans
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bratag (Post 355692)
No way I am moving to those - I only pay 70 bucks now for 600 mins, 2 lines and unlimited data. What the hell is up with that pricing.
What plan are you on?

Bratag 2009-10-22 18:57
Re: New T-mobile Plans
 
Granfathered voice plan and 20 dollar data plan


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