Re: I thought there was a firmware update this month
 

If this were true, Linux distros would not have versions. But they do (and updates update between well defined sets of packages). Releasing package by package is HELL. Don't do it. It WILL kill your support people. Is it good for testing particular packages ? Yes. Is it good as a release strategy ? No.

Except it's not the testers who are loud. I did not see all that many "I want to beta test PR1.1 !" but rather "Where is my firmware update that fixes everything !".

Re: I thought there was a firmware update this month
 

You mean like releasing a phone that can't dial some numbers? Nokia certainly can't afford to do that.

Re: I thought there was a firmware update this month
 

Can't they do it like Microsoft. Release a patch per bug/fix and Service Packs for new functionality/huge improvements .
Think of Windows XP and that you had to wait for SP1 for all the bugs to get fixed.

Re: I thought there was a firmware update this month
 

Slightly misleading. This seems to imply that all Linux distros have version numbers because they can't cope with a rolling release. Arch Linux (which I'm typing this from), Gentoo, and a slew of others seem to handle rolling releases quite well. In fact, I would say that this laptop is more stable than when it was running a Debian flavor of Linux.

Now, if you augmented that statement to say "If this where true, Debian-Based Linux distributions would not have versions" I would be more inclined to agree.(operative word here being more).

I still would argue that they could do like a lot of FOSS projects and have stable vs development/testing releases. For example, the GNOME project's odd number version scheme. Even better, they don't post the odd-numbered, unstable releases on the front page. In fact, I myself had to google just to find such releases. I think something like this would accomplish 3 things:
1) it would show the public that changes are being made
2) it would allow people who understand the implications behind an "unstable" releases to try out whats up-and-coming and submit bug reports and patches
3) it will give the non-techie types the confidence in knowing that if they download a particular firmware version, it will by-and-large be a stable product.

I think this pretty much lends to what has already been said about a tried-and-true system (eg extras, extras-testing, and extras-devel) being not only being feasible, but most probably appropriate.

[rant]
The fact that I have to wait for something that is already presumably working irks me. The fact that I have to wait on improvements on what is allegedly supposed to be open source only because it has to be released with other closed-source components irks me even Software availability (that is, being allowed to use bleeding-edge software as long as I was willing to get my hands dirty) are one of the reasons I switched from Windows to Linux. That this phone in some respects seems to take that liberty from me feels like a regression.

I can't wait until telephony works in Mer.
[/rant

PS- is it ironic that oFono is sponsored by Nokia yet, once consumed by Mer will be Maemo's competition?

Re: I thought there was a firmware update this month
 

Apparently not anyone viewing it on an n900.

Re: I thought there was a firmware update this month
 

Really, that's nonsense and you know it. While (most) linux distributions have versions for major feature jumps they uniformly release interim bug fixes when they're done. Which is what Nokia's not doing.

If Nokia followed the pattern that major Linux distros do, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Re: I thought there was a firmware update this month
 

What's stopping you? The sources are available, build them and install them. :rolleyes:

Um, what?

Re: I thought there was a firmware update this month
 

Except none of those systems are meant for Linux newbies, nor do they (have to) provide the service level more mainstream distros do. That's also the reason why that slew almost totally excludes anything that needs to provide a reliable, universal, certifiable support level. On the other hand, I fully expect Arch or Gentoo folks to be able to solve any problems they might run into on their own. But then, it's (with a stretch) like running Debian unstable. Yeah, it breaks occasionally, you fix it and carry on. But 'normal people', companies, etc, need a solid spot to base on, and that base is provided exactly on those 'big' releases, which are GUARANTEED to have various certificates, be provided with security fixes, paid support, whatnot.

Let's not get anecdotal.

It's not just Debian. Releases are an even bigger deal in the RedHat (and derivatives) world, SuSE is also heavily release based, really, all mainstream distros do that (no offense to Gentoo, Arch or any of the more hacker oriented distros - they are just aiming at a different target audience).

I agree they SHOULD be more transparent in the development efforts (not sure if I would use the word release, a lot of people have difficulty understanding that something NOT meant for the general public is called a release). It would be much better if fixes would be, if nothing else, at least available through git (so it's absolutely clear it's meant for developers and would mean better early feedback from people who KNOW what they are dealing with).

Re: I thought there was a firmware update this month
 

Even Microsoft Windows release alpha - beta service packs etc.
Same for video card drivers and most open source apps etc.

I would love for Nokia to do the same and release pre-final releases.
Why would you rather wait much longer? Doesn't make sense.
Stable release is never 100% stable anyways.
Is your stable-tested-final-retail-N900 firwamre bug-less? Mine isn't?

If you don't want to apply non-final firmware, then don't. Easy. :p
But would love for the rest of us who do to have an option at least.

Re: I thought there was a firmware update this month
 

Congratz - you´ve discovered Nokia^^

They really "like" to act in that way - and i´m so stupid to buy a bananaphone just again after my E90...

I wouldn´t be surprised if many of the bugs will still be existing when support for N900 ends.

I hoped that that truly new device would be a new beginning... i´m not sure if not to optimistic...

Re: I thought there was a firmware update this month
 

I suppose you missed the part where I said I was waiting for telephony to be available in Mer?

Ofono is sponsored by Nokia. My point is that if the telephony technologies used in the n900 (also sponsored by Nokia) were open, there would be no need for this...

My point wasn't about target audiences, but rather at the availability of such release schemes.

I was only meaning to say that such a release scheme, if handled correctly, doesn't automatically make a platform unstable. Again using Arch as a point of reference, they have separate repositories (as I imagine most distros have, including Maemo) for software that is newer, but might very well break your system.

But Maemo is based on debian (and more specifically ubuntu if I recall correctly), which is why I chose them. Where as I quoted something I believed to be over-generalized, I will concede that perhaps my reply was over-specified.

Precisely the point I, and I believe others were trying to make. I just think it's absurd for a company to use things like "there are legal issues to consider", and "we don't want to release buggy code" as a crutch when others are doing so given the same constraints

They already have EULA agreements and separate and a separate repository for the proprietary apps, so what exactly is stopping them from releasing the other components early?

If they need certain versions of software for their components to work, then they can use the dependency mechanism like all other applications (eg depends python >=2.6.4 < 3.0)

Note: I know that Nokia has made no official announcements as to why there has yet to be a release, I'm just speaking hypothetically.

Note 2: Since there have never been any official announcements about a release and any discussion of a new firmware as generally been speculation, I'm not mad at all. Really, I just like discussing the possibilities or lack there of, and the rational surrounding them.

edit:
fixed quotes

Re: I thought there was a firmware update this month
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by aspidites (Post 449465) I suppose you missed the part where I said I was waiting for telephony to be available in Mer?

Erm, then why do you want to have individual package updates available.

Yes, I know what oFono is, but you do realize the reason it's not included in Fremantle is that it's nowhere near ready, right? :)

Re: I thought there was a firmware update this month
 

GeneralAntilles, you are quoting things out of context.

Mer and Ofono arent ready so it makes no sense in my situatuon to install it just yet. I know it isnt ready because others have said so. At thw same time, there is nothing stopping me from giving it a try.

Compare that, if you would, with the current firmware situation: there is confirmation that it resolves numerous issues, yet the general public (heck, even the more tech saavy not-so-general public) have no access to it, thus it is no longer my decision to make whether it is ready or not.

In short, its about choice and I dont particularly like having them taken away without good reason. IMHO Nokia hasnt provided a good enough one...not that I expect them to. I suppose I had higher hopes considering the direction Qt has been heading ever since Nokia bought the project.

BTW, you missed my point about ofono entirely...

Re: I thought there was a firmware update this month
 

there are people on twitter saying they can MMS.

Re: I thought there was a firmware update this month
 

Yes, it's pretty clear I don't get your point, but I suspect it may have to do with so misconceptions on your part.

maemo.gitoreous.org. Download, compile, done.

Quite obviously, perhaps you should do a more thorough job of explaining them in the future. . . .

Re: I thought there was a firmware update this month
 

interesting, just for my understanding
those projects and many upstream projects are pretty much the complete linux system (the os) itself?
What do we still "miss" then if we are speaking about fully open source? Some drivers?

Also modest is in garage, the same for microb
what about the media player?

Re: I thought there was a firmware update this month
 

From my understanding, the things that are still closed are the media player, phone system, and several other parts of the GUI.

Re: I thought there was a firmware update this month
 

Cool, sounds easy, so if I do that I'll get the 3 USIM fix?

Seriously, if maemo.gitorious.org gets me that fix, I'll follow your instructions forthwith.

But I'm under the impression I won't find it there.

(Sadly, for the GPS problems, over on the bugtracker there still seems to be resistance to the idea that one might wish to use GPS when out of range of one's carrier's mobile signal; thus bug fix seems far away)

Re: I thought there was a firmware update this month
 

The GPS seems quite opaque too.

Re: I thought there was a firmware update this month
 

I'm pretty sure not, since that's part of the phone functionality.

Re: I thought there was a firmware update this month
 

I need the 3 USIM fix also :|

Re: I thought there was a firmware update this month
 

Well, Nokia is a big company with many other phonemodels too. That is what makes the difference between Nokia and Apple. You can't expect that the updates are coming as fast as with the iPhone.

For me, I don't really even need that firmware so much. I haven't had any bugs at all. Though portrait mode would be nice with some apps, but with web it won't be even necessary.

Do you people really have so bad bugs in your phone that you need that new firmware that quick? :confused:

If so, I'm sorry for you :(

Re: I thought there was a firmware update this month
 

More like certain things that people feel like should be in the initial release were not; so the firmware is to add those things that were announced to be coming rather soon by Nokia.

Re: I thought there was a firmware update this month
 

From my point of view the fact that I can't use my N900 to make or receive phone calls (3 SIM Issue) is a huge Bug!:(

Re: I thought there was a firmware update this month
 

New firmware has 3 sim card issue fix
Nokia said this would be fixed before the 2009 year, can't remember where I've heard it but that was the main point of the new update to fix 3 sim card issue.

Re: I thought there was a firmware update this month
 

Now that's a valid reason for people to complain about the delay. Frankly, those people waiting to use their sim cards are the only ones who have any right to make a fuss. IMNSHO.

The rest of us have working devices which will do everything we bought them for. The rest of the upgrade will be all well and good. But the people on 3 have a right to mutter.

Re: I thought there was a firmware update this month
 

I thought there was a firmware update last month? not this month.

Re: I thought there was a firmware update this month
 

then please dig the statement and put it here within it's original content. (hint: nokia.se, nothing was promised to be 2009)

Re: I thought there was a firmware update this month
 

Gps issue(doesnt lock without a-gps), video call over 3g and some annoyng bugs(such this) & critical(such random reboots) are important for me. There are many enchantments like mms, more camera options, folders on menu and more things that I dont remember this moment.

Re: I thought there was a firmware update this month
 

Funny that, when I checked the last firmware was dated 2009 and I thought wow, shows it's their topend business phone when it's worked on for so long after its release.

Re: I thought there was a firmware update this month
 

2009? 2009 is an very unprecise expression^^

There were bugs in firmware of E90 at release time, they are still alive and Nokia has said that the E90 is just "right" and there wont be any fixes in the future anymore except if really big problems will occur. As i understand Nokia thinks that bugs from release date were not important enough to be fixed.

And 2009 is not soooo long support, the E90 was released mid of 07 - many units are still in warranty. Would be interesting to see what happens when some customers of "newer" units claim their warranty on the bugged units.

But anywhere, Cathy wrote about beside of 3 USIM there would be no reason to insist on new firmware for N900...
Dont think so, f.e. i dont think a "phone" which supports neither SAP nor PBAP isnt a phone, its just a brick.
We dont live in the 80s, today a mobile phone has to be able to communicate with car kits, in some countries the law prohibites phoning in car without using car kits. Ok, or handsfree kits - but who will really use an earphone when driving? that is only one example out of a large number of problems to be fixed.

Re: I thought there was a firmware update this month
 

If I ever heard an "official" statement like that I would be putting the n900 up for sale almost immediately and getting the "next good phone" out there. There are too many frustrating bugs for me to accept the current firmware as "final". Fortunately, I really doubt that that is the case.

Re: I thought there was a firmware update this month
 

At the summit, Nokia announced they'd heard the public's cry for portrait support, and in response they'd be releasing an updated Maemo web browser--with portrait support--at Christmas time. Note though, this was before the N900's release was pushed back from October to November.

At the summit, all the Nokians were confident the release was right on schedule, so whatever caused the delay took them by surprise. At least some developers, testers, etc. must have been pulled back off "next firmware" duties to fix that last minute problem, and that may have held up our Christmas present.

Also, the next firmware will enable Extras for all N900 owners. Perhaps Nokia wanted to avoid having thousands more folks pounding our creaky, old server as soon as the SSU goes out. So, they're waiting until after the move next week.

Re: When will the next firmware update be released?
 

Threads merged.

Next Firmware?
 

Hello, I for one are hating the battery life of my N900, im now using the phone, on 2g, no wireless, no apps running, screen light on 2 and still only get 6 hours max and not even used it much, no calls today and 5 hours running and only 22% battery left. Ive been doing lots of reading and keep seeing, fixed in the next firmware. When are we getting the next firmware? and im wondering if we will have a really good improvement here.

Im still running 1.2009.42-11.203.2 and no updates available.

I really dont see a light here and really thinking of returning this £500 device by Tuesday, the time I can return and will buy one when it has all the fixes, as I understand its in development, but I would think nokia would sort battery issues and bring a small update.

Re: Next Firmware?
 

There are some rumors about next week.

Re: Next Firmware?
 

Thing is I would love to use this phone to the max, but cant as I can see this going dead within a few hours, surly this is not right, to bring a phone out that doesnt last a full business day 9-5 with full use.

Re: Next Firmware?
 

The next firmware is currently in closed beta testing, since two weeks ago. So the next firmware is soon.. I hope.

Re: Next Firmware?
 

Do you have any extra programs running? I have 3g / wireless always on. lots of widgets etc. and use it pretty much. and still it lasts all day with no problem. most of the time it will give me 2 days of usage.

maybe reflashing does fix something. it seems weard to me at least.

Re: Next Firmware?
 

my battery lasts a day or more .... hope the new firmware will come asap